The Student Room Group

It's official. Medicine applicants rose by 21% this year compared to last.

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Original post by Dexter345
I’m sure universities don’t favour people with achieved grades over predicted grades anyway so it wouldn’t have an affect if they treated cags like predicted


Some do, like Leicester which will give guaranteed interviews to people with achieved grades.

https://le.ac.uk/medicine/study/mbchb/scoring

Applicants with achieved A-levels

Provided the applicant is within two years of leaving school, applicants with achieved A-levels will be automatically invited to interview if they have attained:

At least grade B or 6 at first sitting in the 4 mandatory GCSE subjects

AAA at A-level (or 34 or more in the International Baccalaureate, including 666 in HL subjects) in our required subjects within 2 years of taking GCSEs

A total UCAT score in the top 7 deciles with an SJT band 1-3




Post originally created by ecolier.
Reply 41
I think the number of applicants increased also because it's the last year with home fees for all EU students. After Brexit, all non-UK students have to pay international fees.
Original post by Ami_Ami
I think the number of applicants increased also because it's the last year with home fees for all EU students. After Brexit, all non-UK students have to pay international fees.


You're a year too late. 2021/22 admissions will already be international fees for EU students (exc. Irish).

So it can't be explained by that (we know that EU students dropped by 15%, but international students increased by 14%). There's more discussion about this here: https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6408564

https://www.ucas.com/finance/finance-international-and-eu-students

In a written statement on 23 June 2020, Universities Minister, Michelle Donelan, announced that from August 2021 EU, other EEA and Swiss nationals will no longer be eligible for home fee status undergraduate, postgraduate, and advanced learner financial support from Student Finance England for courses starting in academic year 2021/22. This change will also apply to further education funding for those aged 19+, and funding for apprenticeships.

Note that EU students entering HE in 2020/21 will continue to pay home fees for the duration of their course and be eligible for the UK’s EU settlement scheme if they arrived before the end of this year (31 December 2020). Students who start university or college in the 2020/21 academic year but arrive after 31 December 2020 will also be eligible for home fees but will need to apply for a student visa.


Post originally created by ecolier.
(edited 3 years ago)
Sheffield shortlisted the medicine candidates for this year interviews, and the UCAT cut off has gone up from 2660 to 2740 (home applications).
Original post by SpaceTravel
Sheffield shortlisted the medicine candidates for this year interviews, and the UCAT cut off has gone up from 2660 to 2740 (home applications).


:ta: for this :h:


Post originally created by ecolier.
Do you think there will be more medicine applicants for 2022 entry too?
Original post by turquoisedaisy
Do you think there will be more medicine applicants for 2022 entry too?


I imagine there'd be more applicants from Wales for now... (https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6783284)

There will be a knockon effect from the CAG U-turn from 2020/21 entry, as some people have been asked to defer.

And of course, unis have to make preparations for the potential loss of "predicted grades" and issuing of offers post-Results Day from 2023 onwards. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/education/education-news/university-admissions-grades-exam-results-b1722625.html


Post originally created by ecolier.
(edited 3 years ago)
Where are these stats from
Original post by probookmac
Where are these stats from


UCAS


Post originally created by ecolier.
Lifting the cap on numbers of medical students admitted into 1st year because of the government U-turn on grades will succeed in achieving only two things.

1. More medical students kicked out before 4th year (of a 5-year course) when NHS bursary funding for medical students starts. There is no increased NHS funding coming for the surplus of students admitted this academic year. Numbers of students continuing to 4th year remains the same as it does every year, while everyone else ends up with a BSc in exchange for 3 years of a medical degree. Classified, unclassified or no degree at all (if kicked out before completing 3rd year).

2. No increase in Foundation Programme places because it's more doctors to pay. Any increase in the number of medical students successfully graduating after their final year of medical school means some will be unable to secure a job and end up deferring to the following year. Increased competition in the following year, loss of time and income etc.

These described above are the outcomes awaiting the current 1st year medical students in the years to come.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/18/medical-schools-face-admissions-chaos-after-a-level-climbdown

https://www.hospitaldr.co.uk/blogs/our-news/oversubscribed-medical-schools-look-to-government-for-funded-solutions

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3358
Original post by asif007
Lifting the cap on numbers of medical students admitted into 1st year because of the government U-turn on grades will succeed in achieving only two things.

1. More medical students kicked out before 4th year (of a 5-year course) when NHS bursary funding for medical students starts. There is no increased NHS funding coming for the surplus of students admitted this academic year. Numbers of students continuing to 4th year remains the same as it does every year, while everyone else ends up with a BSc in exchange for 3 years of a medical degree. Classified, unclassified or no degree at all (if kicked out before completing 3rd year).

2. No increase in Foundation Programme places because it's more doctors to pay. Any increase in the number of medical students successfully graduating after their final year of medical school means some will be unable to secure a job and end up deferring to the following year. Increased competition in the following year, loss of time and income etc.

These described above are the outcomes awaiting the current 1st year medical students in the years to come.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2020/aug/18/medical-schools-face-admissions-chaos-after-a-level-climbdown

https://www.hospitaldr.co.uk/blogs/our-news/oversubscribed-medical-schools-look-to-government-for-funded-solutions

https://www.bmj.com/content/370/bmj.m3358

Valid points however what about the A-level students who have taken the Autumn 2020 actual exams, and will earn the much deserved places on own merit rather than the students who were admitted via the teacher predicted CAG or the Algorithm generated grades?

Surely, these students are the ones who have earned an admission more than anyone else in this year cohort.

Many of these students were taking medical admission interviews when the so called school mocks were being done in schools which based the result upon, no one knew in Jan-Feb 2020 that the summer exams will be cancelled, and they will be left at the mercy of school assessment.

Please note many schools have not given any details of how they ranked the students, or details or clarity of the process of allocation of the grades.
So with NHS so short of doctors nurses & other staff.
Should the GOV should have a plan like they did with the police in terms of 20,000 police officers?
20,000 more nurses and or Doctors would be way more useful than 20,000 police officers.
Reply 52
Original post by themagics1992
So with NHS so short of doctors nurses & other staff.
Should the GOV should have a plan like they did with the police in terms of 20,000 police officers?
20,000 more nurses and or Doctors would be way more useful than 20,000 police officers.


In 2015, they announced a plan for 5,000 more GPs by 2020 and “relaxed” the timeline 2 years ago (as they were failing miserably). They are currently running at about -1000 FTEs!
Original post by GANFYD
In 2015, they announced a plan for 5,000 more GPs by 2020 and “relaxed” the timeline 2 years ago (as they were failing miserably). They are currently running at about -1000 FTEs!

Now without being silly in medical schools do you ever get asked would you consider a career as a GP/Emergency medicine or any other speciality that is lacking staff because I know some medical students or A level students do have a rough idea of what type of medicine they'd like to specialise in after medical school (me included - anesthesia) whether they change their mind during studies.

I remember such youtube video mock interview and the applicant had said he'd like to study in this area and the interviewer responded 'Would you consider another speciality?

If you said you had your heart on GP career would medical schools like this even more as they know full well the country is short of GPs and does it offer any advantage atall even if it's minimal %?
Original post by SpaceTravel
Valid points however what about the A-level students who have taken the Autumn 2020 actual exams, and will earn the much deserved places on own merit rather than the students who were admitted via the teacher predicted CAG or the Algorithm generated grades?

Surely, these students are the ones who have earned an admission more than anyone else in this year cohort.

Many of these students were taking medical admission interviews when the so called school mocks were being done in schools which based the result upon, no one knew in Jan-Feb 2020 that the summer exams will be cancelled, and they will be left at the mercy of school assessment.

Please note many schools have not given any details of how they ranked the students, or details or clarity of the process of allocation of the grades.


To avoid legal challenges, medical schools have just admitted everyone into 1st year and possibly asked a small minority of students to defer their places until next year. That still means 1st year admissions this year are heavily above capacity. All lectures online now so they can't use the excuse of not being able to fit all the students into a lecture hall and they admitted everyone regardless, just because they can in the current situation. Now the students are in and have started their courses in Medicine, it's irrelevant which of them earned their admissions the honest way and which didn't. Not all of them will make it to 4th year. There will be a higher proportion kicked out on technicalities, institutions cooking up fabrications and moving the goalposts for passing exams so they can drop students down a year or push for them to be kicked out for no reason other than the medical school has too many students and wants to even out their numbers. This is usual procedure so it will just get worse while the pandemic continues. Quite likely the clinical exams in 3rd year and above will be made more subjective and deceptive than they are already, just so they can get rid of more students. No extra Foundation Programme posts so any surplus students in final year will be forced to repeat the year. Any of those surplus students who do manage to graduate could be unable to secure a job, have to defer FP applications until next year and end up unemployed or working in another sector after having just graduated medical school.

All I can hope is that next year these institutions do not over-admit like they have done this year.
Original post by asif007
To avoid legal challenges, medical schools have just admitted everyone into 1st year and possibly asked a small minority of students to defer their places until next year. That still means 1st year admissions this year are heavily above capacity. All lectures online now so they can't use the excuse of not being able to fit all the students into a lecture hall and they admitted everyone regardless, just because they can in the current situation. Now the students are in and have started their courses in Medicine, it's irrelevant which of them earned their admissions the honest way and which didn't. Not all of them will make it to 4th year. There will be a higher proportion kicked out on technicalities, institutions cooking up fabrications and moving the goalposts for passing exams so they can drop students down a year or push for them to be kicked out for no reason other than the medical school has too many students and wants to even out their numbers. This is usual procedure so it will just get worse while the pandemic continues. Quite likely the clinical exams in 3rd year and above will be made more subjective and deceptive than they are already, just so they can get rid of more students. No extra Foundation Programme posts so any surplus students in final year will be forced to repeat the year. Any of those surplus students who do manage to graduate could be unable to secure a job, have to defer FP applications until next year and end up unemployed or working in another sector after having just graduated medical school.

All I can hope is that next year these institutions do not over-admit like they have done this year.


Overall I do agree with you on this.

In fact, I don't know if you know but the Med Schools Council has issued a statement saying that they expect the failure rates will go up for the next few years.


Post originally created by ecolier.
I didn't know this. Have you got a link to the statement?
Original post by asif007
I didn't know this. Have you got a link to the statement?


It's a long one! https://www.medschools.ac.uk/news/a-statement-on-admissions-to-medical-and-dental-schools-in-2020

Skip to the second last paragraph if you don't have time... reproduced here for posterity.

Of great concern is the impact of large numbers of successful appeal candidates on the cohort of potential applicants for 2021 who have already been significantly disadvantaged by an extended period of school closure. Unfortunately schools’ predicted grades do not align accurately with subsequent exam results being: 44.7 % overpredicted, 6.5 % underpredicted and 48.8% accurate at the level of individual A level subjects. As a result of the change to teacher assessed grades there are now more successful offer holders in the system than there are places. There is also a worry that this could result in a higher likelihood of a greater than usual failure rates as students progress through their very demanding studies.


Post originally created by ecolier.
I read through the whole thing a few times but I see from this sentence alone that it's guaranteed more students will be given a fail on their exams by their institutions and kicked out in the coming years. I have deliberately chosen the words "students will be given a fail on their exams" and not "students will fail their exams".
Original post by asif007
I read through the whole thing a few times but I see from this sentence alone that it's guaranteed more students will be given a fail on their exams by their institutions and kicked out in the coming years. I have deliberately chosen the words "students will be given a fail on their exams" and not "students will fail their exams".


I agree, as you have rightly said (and I have also mentioned elsewhere on TSR) the med schools have got to balance the number of final year med student numbers with the number of FY1 posts!

Failing med students is not really a problem for the unis; but unemployed med grads will be a massive PR disaster.


Post originally created by ecolier.

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