Should trans women be put in jail with men?

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ANM775
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I came across this news article today

https://metro.co.uk/2020/11/24/trans...ison-13647807/
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fallen_acorns
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my Feeling is that they should go to what ever jail matches their identity when they are sentenced.. so if an already trans women commits a crime, they go to women’s prison, but if they commit a crime as a man, and then later decide to transition, they don’t get to swap prisons.
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Napp
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I'm inclined to side with Fallenacorns view on this. Although i wouldnt be kept up at night if they were put into a prison for the gender of which they were born.
This idea that they can suddenly decide to switch genders and thus jails seems dubious, not least because i wouldnt trust their motives for such things.
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DiddyDec
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They should go into the one that matches their gender at sentencing. Prison should be about rehabilitation no just unnecessary punishment.
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MalcolmX
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no. trans women are not men
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Just my opinion
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They certainly shouldn't be sent to a men's prison as that will be inflicting extra punishment on them , but it's not as simple as automatically sending them to a women's prison to mix with women.
An awful lot of women in prison have suffered a rape or sexual abuse in their life locking them in a cell with somebody that still has a penis is inflicting extra punishment on them.
Pre op transwomen have raped and sexually assaulted women in prison
Perhaps if they still own a penis they should go to a transwing of a woman's prison and if they are post op they can be put in with other women. Its a matter of taking everyone's rights into consideration.
Certainly there is a strong incentive for anyone to move to a woman's prison as the conditions and dangers are a world away from a men's prison. You notice we never seem to read about trans men asking to be put into a men's prison.
Last edited by Just my opinion; 1 month ago
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Napp
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(Original post by MalcolmX)
no. trans women are not men
At which point do you start applying this though? When a dashing blonde (still quite visibly a female) changes their mind on the matter? When theyve begun drug therapy or when theyve had surgery? The former is patently absurd in the areas of jails, the middle is still somewhat questionable and the third, well, that is the eternal debate on what is a man..
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Em395
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I agree with the article. I don't think transgender people should be put in the prison in regard to their sex but their identity because they are less likely to be injured. Transgender women in men's prisons are often victims of sexual assaults as the article states and the individual has a right not to be assaulted for their identity status in prisons.

If a woman was put into a male prison they would be raped and/ or tormented so why is it going to be any different for transgender women? Yes they have been sentenced for a reason but if there have been studies showing that this behaviour occurs towards them in those prisons they have a right not to be put in that prison. It would cause less risk for the person AND less lawsuits against the prison system. Times are changing, transgender women are classed as women, transgender men are classed as men. This is the way it should be. Put them in the right prison and they'll be less at risk from transphobia.
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YaliaV123
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I think it should be decided on a case by case basis. A person who has a history of abuse or sexual crimes against women should never be placed with them. Seems like common sense, but that is sorely lacking.
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Just my opinion
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Should a woman that has been sexually assaulted and raped in the past be placed against her will, in a locked room overnight with somebody that has a penis?
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Napp
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(Original post by Just my opinion)
Should a woman that has been sexually assaulted and raped in the past be placed against her will, in a locked room overnight with somebody that has a penis?
Of course, it might offend somebody if not. It's interesting that the idea of biological sex being a myth now seems to have infiltrated its way into such sensitive areas as jails - places well known for hardly being a bastion of sexual etiquette.
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Em395
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(Original post by Napp)
Of course, it might offend somebody if not. It's interesting that the idea of biological sex being a myth now seems to have infiltrated its way into such sensitive areas as jails - places well known for hardly being a bastion of sexual etiquette.
Maybe there can be sections in a prison where victims of sex crimes go and then the two would be separated? Or there could be a wing for transgender women but this would be seen as segregation. Either way, there will always be people discontent with the system.
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Just my opinion
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(Original post by Em395)
Maybe there can be sections in a prison where victims of sex crimes go and then the two would be separated? Or there could be a wing for transgender women but this would be seen as segregation. Either way, there will always be people discontent with the system.
1 in 6 women in the general population in their lifetime have been raped or seriously sexually assaulted by somebody with a penis. That's the general population and there are estimates that, due to the life they have lead, women in prison are much more likely to be rape survivors. If you follow your suggestion that any rape victim should be held in another wing, that would be an awful lot of women singled out, and that's assuming you see nothing wrong with them being forced to declare a rape when the vast majority won't have reported them at the time that they happened.
Surely it makes more sense for the transwomen with a penis to go into a special women's wing as their numbers will be a lot smaller.
Perhaps then transwomen that have had downstairs surgery and no longer have a penis could go in with the general female population.
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tazarooni89
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If we’re going to have sex-segregated prisons, then it makes sense for people to be placed in whichever prison matches their biological sex.

“Identity” is a vague and indefinite concept that it isn’t possible to make black and white rules for. For example, what do you do if someone identifies as neither a man nor a woman? What if they identify as both at once? What if their identity changes day by day? It’s a completely subjective issue. Whereas biological sex is objective, and it is possible to make rules based on this.


I think that sexual assault and rape in prison is a separate issue. If a trans-woman is sexually assaulted in a male prison, it’s easy to say in hindsight that they should have been placed in a female prison instead. But if they had been placed in a female prison, it could have just as easily been the case that they ended up assaulting women there.

Furthermore, sexual assault isn’t always “man on woman”. What do you do if a man rapes another man in prison? Do you transfer that victim to a women’s prison as well? What kind of prison do you put gay people in? Do you put them with the same sex, where they could assault others, or with the opposite sex, where they could be assaulted? What do you do with a bisexual person who could theoretically go and sexually assault anyone?


Segregation alone is not a solution to sexual assault and rape (or any other kind of violence for that matter). Ultimately, better discipline needs to be enforced in prisons, with harsh punishments for rule breakers and constant surveillance by prison guards upon those deemed at high risk of being involved in an incident.

However, where segregation does play its part, I would still say that a trans-woman should be placed in a male prison, because they are biologically male, with all the physical strength benefits that brings. On average, they would have a better chance of defending themselves from an attack by a man, than a woman would have of defending herself from an attack by them.
Last edited by tazarooni89; 1 month ago
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CyclinZH1
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I seriously wonder when society started to believe that we have men and women separate in some instances for 'identity' reasons. As if women identify to being e.g. physiologically disadvantaged in sports to men.

However, in this particular example I would think that post bottom surgery one should let transwomen into women's prisons.
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