berett
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If you're applying to Oxford to do a humanities degree, stop and think about it. It's nice being told by your teachers that you're very intelligent, and yes it will feel nice to get validated by Oxford. But university is an investment. You can read history books in any library. Don't waste £9,250 on it. Take a year out, study some maths or science, and apply for a STEM degree. It is not philistine; it is realistic. Otherwise, you will regret your decision and your debt forever.
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Tolgash
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That is just philistine nonsense. You don't even have to pay it immediately after. Also, are you forgetting law?
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999tigger
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(Original post by berett)
If you're applying to Oxford to do a humanities degree, stop and think about it. It's nice being told by your teachers that you're very intelligent, and yes it will feel nice to get validated by Oxford. But university is an investment. You can read history books in any library. Don't waste £9,250 on it. Take a year out, study some maths or science, and apply for a STEM degree. It is not philistine; it is realistic. Otherwise, you will regret your decision and your debt forever.
Utter nonsense. Just having a decent degree from oxford will assits in opening doors that other unis will find impossible or difficult to match.
Lol @£9250 as you dont understand how student debt works. I assume this is just a troll.
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berett
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(Original post by 999tigger)
Utter nonsense. Just having a decent degree from oxford will assits in opening doors that other unis will find impossible or difficult to match.
Lol @£9250 as you dont understand how student debt works. I assume this is just a troll.
This isn't a troll. I've put so much effort into this application, completely blind to the fact that if I really wanted to use university for social mobility, I should have studied a course that would make me competitive in the working world. And it's a statistical truth that STEM graduates from Russell Group universities will earn more than humanities graduates from Oxford. And in what way do I not understand how student debt works? I'm paying £9,250 a year, plus inflation, to study a course which I know isn't giving me any useful skills ('critical thinking' isn't unique to the humanities, anyone who gets into Oxford is a critical thinker), so I can get a piece of paper at the end that says I'm good at academia, but don't have any practical knowledge to help anyone.
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berett
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(Original post by Tolgash)
That is just philistine nonsense. You don't even have to pay it immediately after. Also, are you forgetting law?
Philistine? I think everyone should love the humanities, but that doesn't mean you should spend £9,250 a year on them. It's a disservice to hopeful students. Universities have become businesses and we are being scammed by them; it is not worth investing if you are not going to come out with a marketable skill.
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by berett)
If you're applying to Oxford to do a humanities degree, stop and think about it. It's nice being told by your teachers that you're very intelligent, and yes it will feel nice to get validated by Oxford. But university is an investment. You can read history books in any library. Don't waste £9,250 on it. Take a year out, study some maths or science, and apply for a STEM degree. It is not philistine; it is realistic. Otherwise, you will regret your decision and your debt forever.
What has any of this got to do with Oxford? You seem to be questioning the value of the humanities, not the university.

If your degree doesn't enable a good salary, you're, unfortunately, not paying £9250 a year for it.
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Tolgash
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(Original post by berett)
Philistine? I think everyone should love the humanities, but that doesn't mean you should spend £9,250 a year on them. It's a disservice to hopeful students. Universities have become businesses and we are being scammed by them; it is not worth investing if you are not going to come out with a marketable skill.
It's not really. You don't have to pay all of it in one go and immediately after graduation. Are all arts and humanities grads from Oxford unemployed then? What if they wanted to enjoy their job instead of earning more?

Also, what about law? You can't argue with that one.
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berett
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
What has any of this got to do with Oxford? You seem to be questioning the value of the humanities, not the university.

If your degree doesn't enable a good salary, you're, unfortunately, not paying £9250 a year for it.
I question the university in particular because it attracts students who work incredibly hard throughout school, and won't feel the economic benefit of doing so. The humanities are wonderful, but they should be hobbies. That's why there is so little contact time. About the second point, I'm trying to decide whether it would be financially wiser to drop out now and apply to university in Germany for a more marketable degree, or to finish this degree and do a second one after.
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berett
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(Original post by Tolgash)
It's not really. You don't have to pay all of it in one go and immediately after graduation. Are all arts and humanities grads from Oxford unemployed then? What if they wanted to enjoy their job instead of earning more?

Also, what about law? You can't argue with that one.
Studying the humanities doesn't mean you are going to enjoy your job more. If you're referring to the creative industries, they don't need degrees. No, I'm not talking about law here, that is a vocational degree. I mean the non-vocational humanities: history, languages, English literature. It's hard to study these without thinking about the money you're wasting.
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phallusathena
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(Original post by berett)
Studying the humanities doesn't mean you are going to enjoy your job more. If you're referring to the creative industries, they don't need degrees. No, I'm not talking about law here, that is a vocational degree. I mean the non-vocational humanities: history, languages, English literature. It's hard to study these without thinking about the money you're wasting.
Maybe for you, but not for the rest of us. I want to go into academia - how should I get there without a degree, do you think?
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by berett)
I question the university in particular because it attracts students who work incredibly hard throughout school, and won't feel the economic benefit of doing so. The humanities are wonderful, but they should be hobbies. That's why there is so little contact time. About the second point, I'm trying to decide whether it would be financially wiser to drop out now and apply to university in Germany for a more marketable degree, or to finish this degree and do a second one after.
Did you think that a humanities degree (alone) would make you rich?

Enjoying what you do is quite important. 40+ hours a week in a job you don't, is nasty.
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berett
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(Original post by phallusathena)
Maybe for you, but not for the rest of us. I want to go into academia - how should I get there without a degree, do you think?
Well, academia is an exception. I don't know who 'the rest of us' are. Academics are a very considerable minority. I think most people just want job security. Listen, I love the humanities, really. But it is terrible that students are drawn into spending this much money, while universities brush over the impact it's going to have on the rest of their life when they realise they should have studied economics, physics, engineering - anything for which it's worth having a piece of paper that confirms you can do it.
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berett
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
Did you think that a humanities degree (alone) would make you rich?

Enjoying what you do is quite important. 40+ hours a week in a job you don't, is nasty.
Yes; and I think with a humanities degree you're looking at 40+ hours a week in a job you don't like. I think I deluded myself about the 'analytical skills' I'd be developing here. I think the pandemic has taught me that theories and abstract ideas mean nothing if you can't 'do the maths'.
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Tolgash
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(Original post by berett)
Studying the humanities doesn't mean you are going to enjoy your job more. If you're referring to the creative industries, they don't need degrees. No, I'm not talking about law here, that is a vocational degree. I mean the non-vocational humanities: history, languages, English literature. It's hard to study these without thinking about the money you're wasting.
No, it doesn't, but neither do STEM subjects. Most Oxford humanities grads are employed. No money is wasted.

I want to teach KS4 and KS5 English. I know what I'd need for that.

What did you study?
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RogerOxon
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(Original post by berett)
Yes; and I think with a humanities degree you're looking at 40+ hours a week in a job you don't like. I think I deluded myself about the 'analytical skills' I'd be developing here. I think the pandemic has taught me that theories and abstract ideas mean nothing if you can't 'do the maths'.
There aren't many degrees that make getting a good job easy. When I graduated the top employer of Oxford Engineers was accountancy.
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berett
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(Original post by Tolgash)
No, it doesn't, but neither do STEM subjects. Most Oxford humanities grads are employed. No money is wasted.
Well, most people are employed. That doesn't really mean anything. And money is wasted if you could have done that job anyway without your degree. You can't really argue that you'd be missing out on the 'experience', because the STEM students can go to all the productions too, and even read books! I realise I'm writing in a very bitter tone, and that's coming from a place of extreme regret. Having studied a STEM subject gives you statistical literacy if nothing else. That is an incredibly valuable skill in the world of work, and quite interesting too. The wage gap between science and humanities students is just immense. A humanities degree, I really do believe, is a £9,000 library card. Books are wonderful things, but don't let someone exploit that to take your money.
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Tolgash
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(Original post by berett)
Well, most people are employed. That doesn't really mean anything. And money is wasted if you could have done that job anyway without your degree. You can't really argue that you'd be missing out on the 'experience', because the STEM students can go to all the productions too, and even read books! I realise I'm writing in a very bitter tone, and that's coming from a place of extreme regret. Having studied a STEM subject gives you statistical literacy if nothing else. That is an incredibly valuable skill in the world of work, and quite interesting too. The wage gap between science and humanities students is just immense. A humanities degree, I really do believe, is a £9,000 library card. Books are wonderful things, but don't let someone exploit that to take your money.
What degree did you study? Also, if most people are employed, what are you worried about? How many people want a higher income at the expense of their job satisfaction ?
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berett
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(Original post by RogerOxon)
There aren't many degrees that make getting a good job easy. When I graduated the top employer of Oxford Engineers was accountancy.
Well that's true. Few degrees will help you stroll into a job. However, when you think about what will hold most Oxbridge students back in their careers, I imagine it is technical, rather than soft skills. You have to be a 'critical thinker' to make it through your interviews, so the playing field is pretty level in that sense. And it takes a lot of practice, certainly, to develop writing skills and what not, which STEM students might feel they lack, but learning the practical, mathematical or scientific skills takes years and years of incredibly hard work. Humanities students can't 'catch-up' in the same way.
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berett
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(Original post by Tolgash)
What degree did you study? Also, if most people are employed, what are you worried about? How many people want a higher income at the expense of their job satisfaction ?
Well most people in England are employed; that doesn't mean they're happy or satisfied. See, I don't think a higher income is at the expense of job satisfaction. I am studying History and French. So I'll spend four years learning to speak at the same level of a 13 year old French child, and learning a lot about the past. If I get stuck in my career, it will be because I haven't invested in numeracy or technological skills. A degree is biggest opportunity to learn these skills, and I have blown it for the romantic idea of studying the arts.
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Tolgash
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(Original post by berett)
Well most people in England are employed; that doesn't mean they're happy or satisfied. See, I don't think a higher income is at the expense of job satisfaction. I am studying History and French. So I'll spend four years learning to speak at the same level of a 13 year old French child, and learning a lot about the past. If I get stuck in my career, it will be because I haven't invested in numeracy or technological skills. A degree is biggest opportunity to learn these skills, and I have blown it for the romantic idea of studying the arts.
Ah, so you're on a gap year? Interesting. I think I would hate a STEM-oriented job, despite its higher salary. I'd rather teach English at a secondary school. It's not all about the money.
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