wyann LT
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Who do medical doctors do a PHD/masters in specialties of interest later on in their career?
I dont see what the point of doing a phd/masters in a specialty once you become a medical doctor; what are the advantages?
For example: a medical doctor doing a degree (masters/phd) in neuroscience if they are interested in neurosurgery or a degree in cardiovascular science if they are interested in cardiovascular surgery
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Who do medical doctors do a PHD/masters in specialties of interest later on in their career?
You mean why do... right? I have edited your title for you.

I dont see what the point of doing a phd/masters in a specialty once you become a medical doctor; what are the advantages?
To gain additional points, to advance in their specialty, to network with other academics, to gain a foothold in research?

For example: a medical doctor doing a degree (masters/phd) in neuroscience if they are interested in neurosurgery
I don't think many neurosurgeons do a Masters or PhD in neurosciences. Where did you get this information from?

or a degree in cardiovascular science if they are interested in cardiovascular surgery
Again, this is more in the realms of Cardiology doctors.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
To gain additional points, to advance in their specialty, to network with other academics, to gain a foothold in research?


Ye but I thought that you do not have to have post grad (PG) qualifications in order to advance in specialty; Wont it take longer to become a consultant if you opted to get pg; isn't it more expensive to do a pg in terms of funding or would you get supplemented for this (i.e. pay rise as a doctor etc ).
If I want to become a neurosurgeon or something, what is the point of doing a pg degree if I could become one without doing it via run through specialty training.
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Ye but I thought that you do not have to have post grad (PG) qualifications in order to advance in specialty;
It'd be easier if you have. You'd have more application points.

Wont it take longer to become a consultant if you opted to get pg;
Yes it will. For many people (and for you) it shouldn't and doesn't matter. It's not a race.

isn't it more expensive to do a pg in terms of funding or would you get supplemented for this (i.e. pay rise as a doctor etc )
You usually have to pay out of your own pocket, unless your deanery or affiliated med school funds it or you can find a benefactor.


If I want to become a neurosurgeon or something, what is the point of doing a pg degree if I could become one without doing it via run through specialty training.
Ah another aspiring neurosurgeon.

Could you really become one though... that's the question. You make it sound sooo easy - remember at FY2 level you'll be competing with people with (potentially) multiple masters or PhDs.

I mean even for my (relatively) less competitive specialty, neurology (still comp ratio ~ 4 to 1 in 2020) there were people with multiple masters and PhDs when I applied. I felt so incredibly insignificant with my couple of international presentations, two publications and audits.
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artful_lounger
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Also, and this is a wild concept I know so bear with me, some people like doing academic research and are interested in the academic side of their professional work, so do decide to do a PhD (or MD which is a research degree in the UK) to explore some area of research they are interested in that as of yet is unexplored on the basis of that.

After school people do sometimes pursue qualifications for reasons other than cynical CV fodder after all...
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
It'd be easier if you have. You'd have more application points.



Yes it will. For many people (and for you) it shouldn't and doesn't matter. It's not a race.



You usually have to pay out of your own pocket, unless your deanery or affiliated med school funds it or you can find a benefactor.




Ah another aspiring neurosurgeon.

Could you really become one though... that's the question. You make it sound sooo easy - remember at FY2 level you'll be competing with people with (potentially) multiple masters or PhDs.

I mean even for my (relatively) less competitive specialty, neurology (still comp ratio ~ 4 to 1 in 2020) there were people with multiple masters and PhDs when I applied. I felt so incredibly insignificant with my couple of international presentations, two publications and audits.
U a neurosurgeon right or are still in training? Did you do (or are u thinkin about) doing a pg degree. In addition do you think it is worth doing a pg after medicine, if so do you have any pg degree u think is beneficial for neurosurgery if not what are most common pg degrees med students do after they graduate as doctors.
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
U a neurosurgeon right or are still in training?
No and no.

Did you do (or are u thinkin about) doing a pg degree.
No, I thought I answered your question. I "only" have publications, presentations, a few prizes and audits.

I have "won" the race to be the "youngest possible consultant" - and I 100% would not recommend it.

In addition do you think it is worth doing a pg after medicine, if so do you have any pg degree u think is beneficial for neurosurgery if not what are most common pg degrees med students do after they graduate as doctors.
Think about it after you have got a place at medical school.

When you're in first year, then ask. There's no point fixating on something that's ~ 7 - 10 years in the future.

You could change your mind between now and then, and aspiring neurosurgeons on TSR are a dime a dozen. There's only 24 ST1 training posts nationally last year.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
No and no.



No, I thought I answered your question. I "only" have publications, presentations, a few prizes and audits.

I have "won" the race to be the "youngest possible consultant" - and I 100% would not recommend it.



Think about it after you have got a place at medical school.

When you're in first year, then ask. There's no point fixating on something that's ~ 7 - 10 years in the future.

You could change your mind between now and then, and aspiring neurosurgeons on TSR are a dime a dozen. There's only 24 ST1 training posts nationally last year.
im already in first year of med school lol but anyway thanks
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
im already in first year of med school lol but anyway thanks
Lol then you should have posted in the "Current medical students and doctors" forum. I'll get this thread moved.

What have you done so far? You'll need to liaise with local neurosurgeons to make yourself known.

Have you been in theatre? The chances are you'll need to (1) intercalate and (2) do a lot of presentations / publications during med school.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
Lol then you should have posted in the "Current medical students and doctors" forum. I'll get this thread moved.

What have you done so far? You'll need to liaise with local neurosurgeons to make yourself known.

Have you been in theatre? The chances are you'll need to (1) intercalate and (2) do a lot of presentations / publications during med school.
At the moment I am just planning for the different things I want to get done whils at med school. I was thinking about intercalating at oncology or neuroscience but undecided; I thought interating at oncology would be beneficial as if I change my mind on the specialty i.e I change from neurology to gastro, my knowledge of oncology can apply to both if I sup specialise in the future, but on the other hand if I am set on doing neurology I could intercalate at neuroscience to make my application stronger for future training post.
Btw I heard that it is 5 points if you have a phd degree but how could u do a intercalated phd so the most I could get is 4 points which is a 1st class intercalated degree; is this true.
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
...Btw I heard that it is 5 points if you have a phd degree but how could u do a intercalated phd so the most I could get is 4 points which is a 1st class intercalated degree; is this true.
Depends on specialty. It is true that the points for additional degrees have been dropping recently.

Previously for CMT (Core Medical Training) it was 8 points for a 1st; 4 points for 2:1; not it's 6 point and 3 points respectively.

P.S. Don't confuse neurology and neurosurgery please. If you wanted to do something in surgery - intercalate in surgical sciences or anatomy or something.
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Angury
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Doctor here. Also doing a PhD. Am doing it because I find the topic interesting, not because I want to advance my career.
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Zitka
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As others have said, you might want to do a PhD for extra points when applying for jobs. You receive points for the degree itself but you'll also benefit from protected research time instead of juggling it with clinical practice/specialty training. In addition to more time for research, PhD training might make it easier to network with academics, access research training courses, fund travel to conferences/research consumables. You have more support and time to publish/present/win prizes which will give you more points on top of the points from having a PhD.

Or you could be interested in the academic side of medicine and want a future career as an academic consultant combining clinical practice and research. A prerequisite for a Clinical Lectureship is a "PhD/MD or equivalent", so aspiring clinician academics or surgical academics often do a 3-year PhD.
https://heeoe.hee.nhs.uk/surgery/aca...ademic-surgeon
https://www.healthcareers.nhs.uk/exp...l-lectureships
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wyann LT
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What is the difference between MD and PHD? What is a MD? Which is better/ adv/disadv for both
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wyann LT
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What is the point of doing a PHD in medicine/ adv/disadv/ is doing a phd in medicine useless
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
What is the point of doing a PHD in medicine/ adv/disadv/ is doing a phd in medicine useless
Did you not get a good enough response here?

Please avoid making duplicate threads for what is essentially, the same question.
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MindMax2000
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Are you referring the US medical degree i.e. Medicinae Doctor? See the following link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Medicine. The degree demonstrates you have the working knowledge to become a practicing medical practitioner/doctor (you need experience after that to become a qualified doctor).

PhD is Doctorate of Philosophy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_of_Philosophy), which is a degree that demonstrates you have the knowledge and skills to perform academic research.

There's no one degree that is better than the other, arguably, and it depends more on what you want to do with the degree. If you want to go into research, the PhD is more appopriate, but if you want to be a practicing doctor at a clinic, you need the MD (ideally suited to the country you're working in). The MDs might poke fun at PhDs, but the PhDs can always poke back at the MDs.

The degrees should be recognised all over the world, and should allow you to work anywhere in the world, provided they're from reputable institutions. With the MDs though, you will need to retrain for your experience within the specific country you work in (local laws and drugs, etc.). I don't think you need to do any additional training for research though.
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Zitka
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(Original post by wyann LT)
What is the difference between MD and PHD? What is a MD? Which is better/ adv/disadv for both
An MD in the UK differs from an MD in North America. As MindMax2000 said, an MD in North America is a medical degree equivalent to MBBS/MBChB.

A UK MD, however, is a postgraduate research degree that is only available to active clinicians. Like a PhD, you would find a research supervisor in a specialty of your choice but unlike a PhD, you would conduct research simultaneously with a full-time clinical role. It's usually 2-4 years and like a PhD, completion of the MD involves submitting a thesis and completing a viva. Having spoken to academic clinicians, the main pro of the MD route is that you don't have to take 3-4 years out of clinical practice but of course, the con is that you'll be working much, much harder since you have two full-on roles.

Here's an example of an MD: https://www.kcl.ac.uk/ioppn/study/pr...dy/pgr/md(res)
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wyann LT
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Can you become a surgeon (neurosurgeon) and do research (on cancer) on the side; e.g 1 or 2 days per week doing (cancer) research and the remaining days of the week in the hospital doing (neuro) surgery; if so what is the process of doing that?
btw im a 1st year med student
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Kyungsooisbae
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Can you become a surgeon (neurosurgeon) and do research (on cancer) on the side; e.g 1 or 2 days per week doing (cancer) research and the remaining days of the week in the hospital doing (neuro) surgery; if so what is the process of doing that?
btw im a 1st year med student
Theoretically yes, realistically no. You can go for a career in academic medicine, doing the alternative Academic Foundation Programme rather than the standard FY1/FY2 years. This will enable you to continue progressing as a physician in a speciality whilst also doing research. Alternatively, you could enter mid-career and practice part-time whilst pursuing clinical research apprenticeships. However, it is a very intensive career path to becoming a neurosurgeon and most will choose to just focus on that. Also, there is almost no way you will be able to balance doing research and practice in two vastly different areas, as it takes a lot of expertise unless you focus on cancers of the brain in your context. Whilst it may be possible it is terribly unlikely as both becoming a neurosurgeon or a career in academic medicine is very competitive and most won't do either yet you trying to do both. I would suggest doing a bit more research into this area as you seem to not have thought it through much.
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