China is greatest threat to freedom - US intelligence chief

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BrowniesMorgan
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Lucifer323)
The greatest victims of this regime are the people of China.
What a laughable statement:lol:
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Napp
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#22
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#22
(Original post by Pythian)
Out of interest, what problems do you think America creates?

I don't think it's fair to compare America to those pariah states. I appreciate you may have a different point of view, but adopting a measured perspective - and taking the good with the bad - I would argue that America is a force for good in the world. It's neither perfect, nor free from folly and waywardness - but, on the whole, it has fought the one-party manifestations of Nazism, Communism and Islamism and upheld the democratic, liberal and secular credentials. Where America has caused grief - it's because it has deviated from its values. In contrast, the consequences of a seriously empowered China & Iran are genuinely terrifying.
The argument can be made that it's values are inclusive of anything that seeks to maintain those i.e. propping up dictators so long as they're capitalist ones. Althought their backing of communist juntas just to say '**** you' to the Russians is noted.
I mean, if it were just one or two times you could argue that its just a mild slip up but tossing their supposed values out the window in the pursuit of domination seems to be the first tenet of their foreign policy and has been for decades. Supporting the dictatorships of the middle east, running drugs to the militaias in Asia, arming the Taliban and its forerunners the list is endless. There's only so many instances you can do before it ceases to be 'deviating from their values' and this is explicitly one of them, no?
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Lucifer323
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#23
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#23
(Original post by BrowniesMorgan)
What a laughable statement:lol:
Why is it a laughable statement?
There are so many Chinese people under the oppression of the regime.

I think you need to think again before posting.
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Lucifer323
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#24
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#24
(Original post by Napp)
The argument can be made that it's values are inclusive of anything that seeks to maintain those i.e. propping up dictators so long as they're capitalist ones. Althought their backing of communist juntas just to say '**** you' to the Russians is noted.
I mean, if it were just one or two times you could argue that its just a mild slip up but tossing their supposed values out the window in the pursuit of domination seems to be the first tenet of their foreign policy and has been for decades. Supporting the dictatorships of the middle east, running drugs to the militaias in Asia, arming the Taliban and its forerunners the list is endless. There's only so many instances you can do before it ceases to be 'deviating from their values' and this is explicitly one of them, no?
The statement may have come from the US however it doesn't change the fact that the Chinese state is a rogue state and extremely dangerous for the entire world.

Currently we have a situation that started in China, was covered up in China and was exported from China to every other country in the world creating mayhem.
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Napp
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#25
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#25
Lucifer, you seem to be unaware that the Chinese regime, whatever you may think of it, remains broadly popular within the former celestial kingdom. Never mind that these 'people it hurts' are also the ones who have benefited most from it. Say what you will about the repression but the immutable fact is the Chinese people are immeasurably better off now than they were previously, harm is thus relative.
By all means bash China for its myriad abuses but at least get your facts straight when going off on one about it and stop using these pithy, yet hollow, sound bites.
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Lucifer323
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#26
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#26
(Original post by Napp)
I'm aware of what contributed to the Vietnamese invasion and subsequent Chinese invasion. What point are you making sorry?
He has already made his/her point. You try to deviate as usual or force him/her to rewrite to you. They completely ignored you this time. Probably the best possible choice.
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Lucifer323
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#27
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#27
(Original post by Pythian)
Out of interest, what problems do you think America creates?

I don't think it's fair to compare America to those pariah states. I appreciate you may have a different point of view, but adopting a measured perspective - and taking the good with the bad - I would argue that America is a force for good in the world. It's neither perfect, nor free from folly and waywardness - but, on the whole, it has fought the one-party manifestations of Nazism, Communism and Islamism and upheld the democratic, liberal and secular credentials. Where America has caused grief - it's because it has deviated from its values. In contrast, the consequences of a seriously empowered China & Iran are genuinely terrifying.
Precisely.

The US may not be a prefect place. Far from it. Their foreign policies finds many of us in complete disagreement quite often.

However there is no comparison between the US and China or Iran. These are terrible regimes, not just terrifying but can cause global disasters.

One is actually happening as the moment. I was entertaining Mr Napp earlier today asking for China to pay heavily for the problem that they created and exported in the entire world, Covid19.

Not only they knew about this but they stopped the flights inside China when at the same time flights continued from China to all other places in the world.

China created the problem, covered it up, and exported it to the rest of the world. It is a rogue state and a very dangerous one.
It's funny given that Mr Napp here wanted to defend China and claimed that we somehow have no case asking for China to pay for Covid19, or heavily sanctioned, when at the same time several countries are thinking of this seriously, and today I watched a very new video by Douglas Murray of the Spectator who is a very sharp author and reporter. His argument is that China must pay for Covid19!!
What a coincidence?!

It is also obvious that the Chinese people are often the ones that suffer the most from this regime which is supporter unfortunately by a portion of the population.

Clearly there must be a talk about this rogue and very dangerous regime. They must have to pay for the millions of dead and the destruction of lives, jobs, and businesses.
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Lucifer323
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#28
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#28
(Original post by BrowniesMorgan)
What a laughable statement:lol:
Before you make sarcasm about something you don't know you should consider how many people are executed in China per year and the business of selling organs to the rest of the world from those who have been executed.

On the other hand the level of ignorance and the lack of any serious critical ability and knowledge is obvious in these threads.
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fallen_acorns
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Those saying there is no comparison between China and America when it comes to being an international danger are right.

One has started numerous illegal wars, created instability in entire global regions, toppled states at Will, created failed-states, and caused the deaths of countless millions to fuel its military complex..

The other hasn’t even come anywhere close, and the vast majority of its problems, camps, protests, detentions, killings etc, are within its own borders..
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fallen_acorns
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#30
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#30
(Original post by Lucifer323)
which is supporter unfortunately by a portion of the population.

Clearly there must be a talk about this rogue and very dangerous regime. They must have to pay for the millions of dead and the destruction of lives, jobs, and businesses.
There is a talk.. just no one is listening to your nonsense.

A proportion of the population- Try a vast vast majority. I’ve lived here for years now. Every family knows the same reality.. the grandparents knew poverty and starvation, and now the grandkids know comfortable flats, university education, the latest goods, any food they want etc. That’s the story of the everyday Chinese family, and that’s why hundreds of millions support their government.

You need to understand where China came from and how this reigime formed.. it stared from National crippling failure and humiliation.

Within living memory of members of my family there is the Japanese was occupation, the murder of millions, subjection, war crimes and more.. their nation was at its lowest point. Now, 80 years later? They are one of the two most powerful nations on the planet, with massively improved Quality of life, and a real pride in the development or rebuilding of their nation.

If your hoping that Chinese people don’t like their government, your going to be hoping a long time. Even this pandemic has done nothing but boost support for the government here. People here, including myself, lead normal lives without worrying about the virus, while western nations chaotically fail to contain it and suffer hundreds of thousands of deaths... the situation here in China is that the government has never been more popular
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Napp
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#31
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#31
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
There is a talk.. just no one is listening to your nonsense.

A proportion of the population- Try a vast vast majority. I’ve lived here for years now. Every family knows the same reality.. the grandparents knew poverty and starvation, and now the grandkids know comfortable flats, university education, the latest goods, any food they want etc. That’s the story of the everyday Chinese family, and that’s why hundreds of millions support their government.

You need to understand where China came from and how this reigime formed.. it stared from National crippling failure and humiliation.

Within living memory of members of my family there is the Japanese was occupation, the murder of millions, subjection, war crimes and more.. their nation was at its lowest point. Now, 80 years later? They are one of the two most powerful nations on the planet, with massively improved Quality of life, and a real pride in the development or rebuilding of their nation.

If your hoping that Chinese people don’t like their government, your going to be hoping a long time. Even this pandemic has done nothing but boost support for the government here. People here, including myself, lead normal lives without worrying about the virus, while western nations chaotically fail to contain it and suffer hundreds of thousands of deaths... the situation here in China is that the government has never been more popular
prsom
Alas, i doubt his knowledge of China extends to anything outside of the garbage spewed forth by "news" outlets like The Epoch Times or those amusing 'experts' the likes of Fox get on to say that the population is gagging for the opportunity to stage a mass popular uprising.
Bit of the shame that tosspot Xi has collected so much political capital from this little saga though, it even seems to have wiped the slate clean from such humiliations as the spanking in the Himalaya's and so on.
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fallen_acorns
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#32
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#32
(Original post by Napp)
prsom
Alas, i doubt his knowledge of China extends to anything outside of the garbage spewed forth by "news" outlets like The Epoch Times or those amusing 'experts' the likes of Fox get on to say that the population is gagging for the opportunity to stage a mass popular uprising.
Bit of the shame that tosspot Xi has collected so much political capital from this little saga though, it even seems to have wiped the slate clean from such humiliations as the spanking in the Himalaya's and so on.
What’s interesting me regarding political capital with the pandemic is how they play the vaccines. China paying for a western vaccine and giving it to its people? I’m pretty sure that would be viewed as a big failure here.. but as of yet there hasn’t been any significantly decisive news about the Chinese developed vaccines.

that being said while the virus has helped the government here, it’s still second place in terms of free propaganda behind trumps last 4 years!
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BrowniesMorgan
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#33
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#33
(Original post by Lucifer323)
Before you make sarcasm about something you don't know you should consider how many people are executed in China per year and the business of selling organs to the rest of the world from those who have been executed.

On the other hand the level of ignorance and the lack of any serious critical ability and knowledge is obvious in these threads.
Before I made sarcasm I carefully thought about the fact that for I spent more than half of my life living there for 16 years, only to be accused of ignorance of and knowing NOTHING about China, and the accuser thinks he knows everything through some random Internet reading:lol: How many out of 1.4 billion people are being executed and surely selling organs is such a sustainable and wonderful business that is a huge part of China's economies?:lol: How many people are being lifted out of poverty then? How many people are again able to go to school, and how many now able to make a living for the skyrocketing financial power? Man it is not enough for people living in a Western ivory tower, holding a few pieces of evidence about 'how many people are being executed every year in China' and deemed that Chinese people worth the deepest sympathy, without the comparison of how many out of the 1.4 billion are now living a better life, without the regards that the latter being disproportionately larger than the former, and surely, it is laughable that someone holds the former number and said people in China are the greatest victim. Of course someone can say the only reason why their businesses are taking over the world are their cheap labour and sweat shops, without the regards that these people chose to do cheap labour, as the alternative will only be subsistence agriculture that when the winter comes, the farmers starve to death, like what have always happened in over 2,000 years of feudalism.

I can think of a thousand reasons to justify the statement that 'China is a great, if not the greatest, threat to the rest of the world', the African countries falling into the voracious Chinese debt trap being a great victim for decades to come, the businesses around the world unable to compete with cheap labour, the neo-colonialism of Belt and Road, I would even agree if somebody says 'the greatest victim being the internal political opponents/minorities/activists of China', but man, I just found the shocking generalisation of 'the WHOLE people of China being the greatest victim of PRC' extremely laughable. It is tempting but not convincing for people in Ivory tower to always make such generalisation about everyone under the regime of dictatorships having the risks of chilling on the road and suddenly being abducted by the government to have his organs sold abroad. If China is a great threat to the world, that is not because there are a few random people in the highest office selling organs of executees every day and conspiring to dominant the globe, it is only when the majority of the 1.4 billion of population able to benefit hugely from its financial policies, that they truly believe that the state is doing them good and become internally obedient and patriotic to an oppressive dictatorship regime, that is the moment when China becomes the greatest threat to the rest of the world, and that is what we are witnessing now. If I interpreted what you said above correctly, you mentioned that the PRC dictatorship regime is unfortunately being supported by a portion of the population, without giving a reason that why the hell are these people supporting this regime, as if they are low intelligence creatures that the superior brains in the West cannot understand:hahaha: It is money, man, just like the day Rishi Sunak said 'for the first time in our history the government is stepping in to help pay for people's wages', nobody calls him socialist, hashtag Rishi Sunak PM was trending in twitter.

There are too many victims of a rising, massive dictatorship regime. Its own people being the greatest victim is a laughable statement, after all.
Last edited by BrowniesMorgan; 2 months ago
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Lucifer323
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#34
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#34
(Original post by BrowniesMorgan)
Before I made sarcasm I carefully thought about the fact that for I spent more than half of my life living there for 16 years, only to be accused of ignorance of and knowing NOTHING about China, and the accuser thinks he knows everything through some random Internet reading:lol: How many out of 1.4 billion people are being executed and surely selling organs is such a sustainable and wonderful business that is a huge part of China's economies?:lol: How many people are being lifted out of poverty then? How many people are again able to go to school, and how many now able to make a living for the skyrocketing financial power? Man it is not enough for people living in a Western ivory tower, holding a few pieces of evidence about 'how many people are being executed every year in China' and deemed that Chinese people worth the deepest sympathy, without the comparison of how many out of the 1.4 billion are now living a better life, without the regards that the latter being disproportionately larger than the former, and surely, it is laughable that someone holds the former number and said people in China are the greatest victim. Of course someone can say the only reason why their businesses are taking over the world are their cheap labour and sweat shops, without the regards that these people chose to do cheap labour, as the alternative will only be subsistence agriculture that when the winter comes, the farmers starve to death, like what have always happened in over 2,000 years of feudalism.

I can think of a thousand reasons to justify the statement that 'China is a great, if not the greatest, threat to the rest of the world', the African countries falling into the voracious Chinese debt trap being a great victim for decades to come, the businesses around the world unable to compete with cheap labour, the neo-colonialism of Belt and Road, I would even agree if somebody says 'the greatest victim being the internal political opponents/minorities/activists of China', but man, I just found the shocking generalisation of 'the WHOLE people of China being the greatest victim of PRC' extremely laughable. It is tempting but not convincing for people in Ivory tower to always make such generalisation about everyone under the regime of dictatorships having the risks of chilling on the road and suddenly being abducted by the government to have his organs sold abroad. If China is a great threat to the world, that is not because there are a few random people in the highest office selling organs of executees every day and conspiring to dominant the globe, it is only when the majority of the 1.4 billion of population able to benefit hugely from its financial policies, that they truly believe that the state is doing them good and become internally obedient and patriotic to an oppressive dictatorship regime, that is the moment when China becomes the greatest threat to the rest of the world, and that is what we are witnessing now. If I interpreted what you said above correctly, you mentioned that the PRC dictatorship regime is unfortunately being supported by a portion of the population, without giving a reason that why the hell are these people supporting this regime, as if they are low intelligence creatures that the superior brains in the West cannot understand:hahaha: It is money, man, just like the day Rishi Sunak said 'for the first time in our history the government is stepping in to help pay for people's wages', nobody calls him socialist, hashtag Rishi Sunak PM was trending in twitter.

There are too many victims of a rising, massive dictatorship regime. Its own people being the greatest victim is a laughable statement, after all.
So what if you have lived there for 16 years?? You still haven't learnt that much...

It is still the case and has always been that China is a rogue state and that many of its people are suffering under the communist regime. It's the greatest dictatorship.

What is laughable is your long text as if this will convince any of us. And your rather hilarious arguments.

We don't need Chinese propaganda around here. Go somewhere else.
Last edited by Lucifer323; 2 months ago
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Lucifer323
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#35
(Original post by BrowniesMorgan)
Before I made sarcasm I carefully thought about the fact that for I spent more than half of my life living there for 16 years, only to be accused of ignorance of and knowing NOTHING about China, and the accuser thinks he knows everything through some random Internet reading:lol: How many out of 1.4 billion people are being executed and surely selling organs is such a sustainable and wonderful business that is a huge part of China's economies?:lol: How many people are being lifted out of poverty then? How many people are again able to go to school, and how many now able to make a living for the skyrocketing financial power? Man it is not enough for people living in a Western ivory tower, holding a few pieces of evidence about 'how many people are being executed every year in China' and deemed that Chinese people worth the deepest sympathy, without the comparison of how many out of the 1.4 billion are now living a better life, without the regards that the latter being disproportionately larger than the former, and surely, it is laughable that someone holds the former number and said people in China are the greatest victim. Of course someone can say the only reason why their businesses are taking over the world are their cheap labour and sweat shops, without the regards that these people chose to do cheap labour, as the alternative will only be subsistence agriculture that when the winter comes, the farmers starve to death, like what have always happened in over 2,000 years of feudalism.

I can think of a thousand reasons to justify the statement that 'China is a great, if not the greatest, threat to the rest of the world', the African countries falling into the voracious Chinese debt trap being a great victim for decades to come, the businesses around the world unable to compete with cheap labour, the neo-colonialism of Belt and Road, I would even agree if somebody says 'the greatest victim being the internal political opponents/minorities/activists of China', but man, I just found the shocking generalisation of 'the WHOLE people of China being the greatest victim of PRC' extremely laughable. It is tempting but not convincing for people in Ivory tower to always make such generalisation about everyone under the regime of dictatorships having the risks of chilling on the road and suddenly being abducted by the government to have his organs sold abroad. If China is a great threat to the world, that is not because there are a few random people in the highest office selling organs of executees every day and conspiring to dominant the globe, it is only when the majority of the 1.4 billion of population able to benefit hugely from its financial policies, that they truly believe that the state is doing them good and become internally obedient and patriotic to an oppressive dictatorship regime, that is the moment when China becomes the greatest threat to the rest of the world, and that is what we are witnessing now. If I interpreted what you said above correctly, you mentioned that the PRC dictatorship regime is unfortunately being supported by a portion of the population, without giving a reason that why the hell are these people supporting this regime, as if they are low intelligence creatures that the superior brains in the West cannot understand:hahaha: It is money, man, just like the day Rishi Sunak said 'for the first time in our history the government is stepping in to help pay for people's wages', nobody calls him socialist, hashtag Rishi Sunak PM was trending in twitter.

There are too many victims of a rising, massive dictatorship regime. Its own people being the greatest victim is a laughable statement, after all.
It is hilarious that the communist regime is not supported by a portion of its people. If it wasn't then it wouldn't survive. Yes it is supported by a portion of the people of China just like the regime in Iran is supported but a similar portion.

It is the majorities that suffer most. Those who don't support such regimes.

And yes the number of executions in China is a state secret. There are tend of thousands executed every year. Others vanish and disappear... And those executed together with those vanished become organs for sale to affluent westerners.

Again, we don't need propaganda around here.
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Napp
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#36
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Lucifer, you're keen on "evidence" arent you? Would you kindly show us the data that demonstrates "the majority of Chinese do not support the CCP" ? I get the distinct feeling you might find that difficult.

And Tehran for that matter...
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by Napp)
Lucifer, you're keen on "evidence" arent you? Would you kindly show us the data that demonstrates "the majority of Chinese do not support the CCP" ? I get the distinct feeling you might find that difficult.

And Tehran for that matter...
Hello Mr Napp,

Are you trying again to deviate from the arguments made?

Instead of answering directly this question, let's state again that China is a rogue state in which a large number of its people suffer from the communist regime.

You can't trust its ruling party with nothing.

When you refer to evidence you shouldn't confuse science with politics...
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fallen_acorns
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#38
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#38
(Original post by Lucifer323)
So what if you have lived there for 16 years?? You still haven't learnt that much...

It is still the case and has always been that China is a rogue state and that many of its people are suffering under the communist regime. It's the greatest dictatorship.

What is laughable is your long text as if this will convince any of us. And your rather hilarious arguments.

We don't need Chinese propaganda around here. Go somewhere else.
Hes right though... His post was a very good and accurate representation of China.
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fallen_acorns
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#39
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#39
(Original post by Lucifer323)
It is hilarious that the communist regime is not supported by a portion of its people. If it wasn't then it wouldn't survive. Yes it is supported by a portion of the people of China just like the regime in Iran is supported but a similar portion.

It is the majorities that suffer most. Those who don't support such regimes.

And yes the number of executions in China is a state secret. There are tend of thousands executed every year. Others vanish and disappear... And those executed together with those vanished become organs for sale to affluent westerners.

Again, we don't need propaganda around here.
This majority must be hiding really well...
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
This majority must be hiding really well...
The majorities as always live in silence and fear.
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