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Oxford or Cambridge; does it matter?

Whether one comes out of oxford or cambridge, does it really make a big difference in terms of ones employability. Aren't tehy just as good as each other. I've got offer to read maths at oxford. Sure Cambridge is better on paper, but in the real world, will it make a big difference on whether its an oxford or cambridge grad that gets a job? They both as good as each other aren't they!!!

Also, aren't oxford and cambridge on par with each other in terms of reputation of their respective maths degrees? or is the cambridge one more recognised?

What do you all think!!??

Reply 1

london_1

2

Pkerai86

Whether one comes out of oxford or cambridge, does it really make a big difference in terms of ones employability. Aren't tehy just as good as each other. I've got offer to read maths at oxford. Sure Cambridge is better on paper, but in the real world, will it make a big difference on whether its an oxford or cambridge grad that gets a job? They both as good as each other aren't they!!!

Also, aren't oxford and cambridge on par with each other in terms of reputation of their respective maths degrees? or is the cambridge one more recognised?

What do you all think!!??

Well. Cambridge demands STEP papers. Oxford does not ask for them as part of the offer and they are usually AAB offers where as Cambridge offers are AAA/AAAA I think? :wink:

I always thought Cambridge was stronger in the SCIENCES and Oxford in the ARTS?
:confused:

Reply 2

Drogue

19

london_1

Well. Cambridge demands STEP papers. Oxford does not ask for them as part of the offer

Correct.

london_1

and they are usually AAB offers where as Cambridge offers are AAA/AAAA I think? :wink:

Not correct. My offer was AAAA, and I've yet to meet someone here with an AAB offer.

london_1

I always thought Cambridge was stronger in the SCIENCES and Oxford in the ARTS?

That's usually seen as the case, though heavily generalised.

As for employability, it depends what asort of job you go for. Going for a PhD or further research, it does matter, one of the Cambridge maths options (option B IIRC) is more rigourous in terms of proofs than Oxfords maths course, almost whatever you take. For any normal job, this won't matter at all, but for doing further research, it can do.

Reply 3

MadNatSci

12

Doesn't make a significant difference. The only relevant differences between them are:

1. the course - there are significant differences in the courses; note Natural Sciences and ASNaC, for example, are only offered at Cambridge; and courses in the same subjects may be very different (eg history, from what I've heard)

2. size and atmosphere of the place - Cambridge is a university with a town attached, Oxford is a city with a university attached (not quite accurate but gives the general idea)

Um. Can't actually think of anything more. If you're still undecided, then do you prefer light or dark blue?!

Reply 4

Squishy

11

Pkerai86

Whether one comes out of oxford or cambridge, does it really make a big difference in terms of ones employability.

Your own abilities and achievements should get you a job, not the name of your university.

Reply 5

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

Squishy

Your own abilities and achievements should get you a job, not the name of your university.

For many careers, the university name matters a lot more than one's abilities and achievements. You can be an amazing individual and have a 1st from [rubbish uni] and probably not pass the application stage.

As for the initial question, for most courses there's absolutely no difference for employability. JaF said for Engineering Cambridge grads are preferred because of the course structure, but for academic courses, especially the arts, they're not going to hold one in much better stead than the other.

However, for subjects like Maths and Engineering, Imperial is no worse than Oxbridge; if I was solely concerned about employability I'd have picked Economics at LSE over Oxbridge. For a lot of people, employability isn't high on the agenda when considering Oxbridge.

Reply 6

Squishy

11

Jools

For many careers, the university name matters a lot more than one's abilities and achievements.

Yes, that's true for things like politics and law where who you know tends to matter more than what you know. However, I'm happy to leave those careers to people who have more snobbery and self-absorption than sense.

It's true that some employers are getting so many applications that university attended may seem like a good discriminator, but there's no way I think a good employer would think someone with excellent credentials and a high First from X Polytechnic is not worth looking at if they've also got an applicant from Y College, Oxford, especially for something like maths. No one looked down on Einstein's work because he didn't go to Heidelberg or Göttingen.

Reply 7

fishpaste

Cambridge is best for maths on the planet, a bit harsh to compare it to Oxford. :P as for employability, I'm sure it depends on the job. I reckon you'd be more employable as an oxford graduate in the US, but if you wanted to do graduate study then Cambridge is unbeatable. The evidence for this is they'll take cambridge graduates with 2.1s for PartIII but demand 1sts from oxford maths graduates :wink:

Reply 8

Font

OP

but degrees between unis vary largely.

from what i've eben told by some unbiased lecturer at teh royal holloway, there are unis at the bottom end which teach you stuff like pythagor'theorum and baby stuff, and the real top uni's such as oxbridge, which get into the complicated stuff, and research material and stuff.

Reply 9

fishpaste

Jools

However, for subjects like Maths and Engineering, Imperial is no worse than Oxbridge

I would disagree for Maths and Natural Sciences. Maths because Cambridge demands STEP. And I think the sheer intensity of the Cambridge natural sciences course means it's regarded a bit higher than a science course at Imperial.

Reply 10

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

Squishy

Yes, that's true for things like politics and law where who you know tends to matter more than what you know. However, I'm happy to leave those careers to people who have more snobbery and self-absorption than sense.

It's true that some employers are getting so many applications that university attended may seem like a good discriminator, but there's no way I think a good employer would think someone with excellent credentials and a high First from X Polytechnic is not worth looking at if they've also got an applicant from Y College, Oxford, especially for something like maths. No one looked down on Einstein's work because he didn't go to Heidelberg or Göttingen.

It stretches a lot, lot further than just politics and law. For banking/finance, management etc, not to mention academia(!), the university name carries a lot of weight, in fact many have lists of their target universities, with computer filters blacklisting certain institutions. When there's 100+ universities in the country, it's well known that a 2.1 in Maths from Oxford is very good, they can rely on the university's reputation, but they probably won't know the degree of difficulty required for the high 1st at [X Polytechnic] - if course difficulty was of the same standard nationwide then this academic snobbery wouldn't exist to such a large extent.

If at Einstein's time there were 8000 applicants for 50 places/posts, then his work and intellect may have been brushed aside too.

Reply 11

inactive__user

If at Einstein's time there were 8000 applicants for 50 places/posts, then his work and intellect may have been brushed aside too.

I would go as far as to say it almost definately would have as he did have definite weaknesses in his academics.

Reply 12

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

fishpaste

I would disagree for Maths and Natural Sciences. Maths because Cambridge demands STEP. And I think the sheer intensity of the Cambridge natural sciences course means it's regarded a bit higher than a science course at Imperial.

OK. But think of the kind of jobs people do with a Maths or Natural Sciences degree. There's next to nothing where the Cambridge grad is going to be better at the job than the Oxford/IC grad; e.g. in Maths what you learn at all 3 unis typically goes well well beyond the level of Maths you'd need to use in a job. So even if one uni is better than another, when we're talking Oxbridge/IC you're well beyond the 'cut-off point' of maximum potential at work.

Reply 13

fishpaste

Jools

OK. But think of the kind of jobs people do with a Maths or Natural Sciences degree. There's next to nothing where the Cambridge grad is going to be better at the job than the Oxford/IC grad; e.g. in Maths what you learn at all 3 unis typically goes well well beyond the level of Maths you'd need to use in a job. So even if one uni is better than another, when we're talking Oxbridge/IC you're well beyond the 'cut-off point' of maximum potential at work.

Well, yes, the difference is only obvious if you're wanting to apply your undergraduate maths, eg. applying to do part III. But that's not what makes you employable in the first place usually is it? :- your ability to prove the fundamental theorem of algebra

Reply 14

CamSPSer

politics isnt just about who you know. its not the easiest job being a politican and in many of the smaller parties (greens lib dems) its very much meritocratic. people in the greens do well beucae they put a lot of effort in rather than being based on their degree or anything else.

Reply 15

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

notyourpunk

politics isnt just about who you know. its not the easiest job being a politican and in many of the smaller parties (greens lib dems) its very much meritocratic. people in the greens do well beucae they put a lot of effort in rather than being based on their degree or anything else.

For being e.g. a county councillor, university/degree doesn't matter. In the main areas of power, it does - between Labour and Conservative MPs, 68 are from Oxford and 42 Cambridge. Of the 42 Prime Ministers who've been to university, 40 went to Oxbridge. etc...

Reply 16

Godmaster

7

What about arts and social sciences eg; Law or PPE/SPS? (of course not directly comparable with all respect)

Reply 17

Squishy

11

Jools

It stretches a lot, lot further than just politics and law. For banking/finance, management etc, not to mention academia(!), the university name carries a lot of weight

OK sorry, maybe I should have been more specific about what I meant. There are jobs where who you know and where you've been is important to even get a foot in the door (aside from law and politics, banking is one of them for example).

I also know that some employers do like certain schools or qualifications because they know that it means that someone has reached a certain level that may be necessary for the job. My point was that just because someone has an Oxbridge degree, it doesn't mean that they're automatically going to outclass an ex-Poly student in the workplace (and thus IMO be more employable). However, if you're dealing with a company that can't see beyond the name of an employee's university when hiring (one which I certainly wouldn't want to work for), then I suppose an Oxbridge degree alone makes you "more employable".

In jobs where you are judged pretty much purely on the merit of your work (for example writers, architects, doctors), I think the institution where you got your degree from is irrelevant. My point about Einstein was not whether he'd get funding for a PhD if he lived in 2004, but the fact that the work he did was judged so important that any number of the most prestigious universities in the world would have loved to have had him on their staff afterwards.

notyourpunk

politics isnt just about who you know. its not the easiest job being a politican and in many of the smaller parties (greens lib dems) its very much meritocratic.

I respect that, but I really don't think they'll be in power any time soon. Look at how Oxbridge has dominated (and still continues to dominate) British politics to see how meritocratic the big parties are.

Reply 18

WhatFreshHell?

2

Isn't it more that a degree from Oxford or Cambridge shows you've been intellectually stretched (evidence: lots of finals are almost entirely exam based, short 8-week crammed terms, surrounded by equally "intelligent" people, perplexingly rigourous admissions system) and can cope with high levels of intellectual stress and have developed a variety of skills to a high degree (essay writing, organisation, etc), and so, irrespective of what job you go into and the ins-and-outs of the degree you sat, these points remain the same.

With regard to the "connections" idea, yeah, some places are very "old school tie", "oh, I went to New College too, old chap!" but if you want to succeed at the highest levels in politics, law, acturial science or whatever, you're going to have to rely on high levels of intelligence, certainly enough to get you into Oxbridge or at least pretty damn close (less so with politics, that relies on innate skill rather than innate intelligence, and few (top) politicians studied politics)

Just a thought...

Reply 19

inactive__user

less so with politics, that relies on innate skill rather than innate intelligence, and few (top) politicians studied politics

I very much agree...people who go straight into politics are in my opinion exactly what we don't need. Politics degrees are excellent for journalism due to the fact you have to know what you are writing about. However to be a politician you should be one because you want to run the country and you need to have had an experience of life outside the political arena so that you do get a grasp of 'the real world'!

I realise this has nothing to do with the thread and for this i am sorry but just felt like a rant!

Oxford or Cambridge; does it matter?

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