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Oxford or Cambridge; does it matter?

Reply 20

WhatFreshHell?

Isn't it more that a degree from Oxford or Cambridge shows you've been intellectually stretched (evidence: lots of finals are almost entirely exam based, short 8-week crammed terms, surrounded by equally "intelligent" people, perplexingly rigourous admissions system) and can cope with high levels of intellectual stress and have developed a variety of skills to a high degree (essay writing, organisation, etc), and so, irrespective of what job you go into and the ins-and-outs of the degree you sat, these points remain the same.

I honestly feel that spending 3 years writing Geography essays hasn't prepared me or developed my skills for the world of work whatsoever.

Reply 21

khl31

i believe they are called "oxbridge" degrees for a reason :biggrin:

unless you have a long-lost twin studying the exact same subject at the other uni and having the exact same CV (with regards to extracurricular stuff), it is unlikely that the difference between the 2 is going to be a major factor in employment considerations now, is it? so many other more important things to consider... :rolleyes:

Reply 22

Acaila

17

Regarding political success and what uni you went to, Jack McConnell went to Stirling (not exactly the most prestigious of places (actually my grandma refused to let my mum go there because it had such a bad reputation) and I think Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh.
Actually I've heard it said that "Edinburgh is the new Oxbridge as far as politics goes". Don't know if I quite believe that though :biggrin:

.

Reply 23

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

John Major left school at 16.

Reply 24

Drogue

19

fishpaste

Cambridge is best for maths on the planet, a bit harsh to compare it to Oxford. :P as for employability, I'm sure it depends on the job. I reckon you'd be more employable as an oxford graduate in the US, but if you wanted to do graduate study then Cambridge is unbeatable. The evidence for this is they'll take cambridge graduates with 2.1s for PartIII but demand 1sts from oxford maths graduates :wink:

That's because PartIII is a 4th year course, and a much harder course than the 3 year BA at Oxford and Cambridge. IIRC, you need a first to get onto Part III, in your Part II exams. Yes Cambridge is much better for maths than Oxford, but compare an Oxford BA with a Cambridge BA, not a Cambridge BA+1 year course. Part III is a postgrad course.

Reply 25

InterCity125

1

Acaila

Regarding political success and what uni you went to, Jack McConnell went to Stirling (not exactly the most prestigious of places (actually my grandma refused to let my mum go there because it had such a bad reputation) and I think Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh.
Actually I've heard it said that "Edinburgh is the new Oxbridge as far as politics goes". Don't know if I quite believe that though :biggrin:

.

Brown has a phd from edinburgh and was a lecturer there for a while.

Reply 26

WhatFreshHell?

2

Acaila

Regarding political success and what uni you went to, Jack McConnell went to Stirling (not exactly the most prestigious of places (actually my grandma refused to let my mum go there because it had such a bad reputation) and I think Gordon Brown went to Edinburgh.
Actually I've heard it said that "Edinburgh is the new Oxbridge as far as politics goes". Don't know if I quite believe that though :biggrin:

.

Scotland's very different from England in terms of political education. If you look at the Labour Party in the Scottish Parliament, whole swathes know each other from Glasgow Uni (Back in the days when they were radicals!), but alot of people simply worked their way to the top due to skill and record rather than education (especially in the Scottish Labour Party, and maybe SNP, not to such a degree with others). Because Scottish politics is SO parochial, it really does depend on who you know, and people all over the country know what our leading politicains were doing 10,20,30 years ago, simply becuase the political landscape is so compact.

It's not like that in England, nor in most places, where there's a much bigger element of sheer luck involved, because obviously it's much harder to know the big political movers-and-shakers if there's 10 times as many of them!

Reply 27

khl31

fishpaste

Cambridge is best for maths on the planet, a bit harsh to compare it to Oxford. :P

i'd be careful to make that claim... :secruity: lots of american, as well as far eastern universities have VERY strong maths departments. indians and orientals have a knack for maths, and americans can afford to throw enough money at somebody until they get good at it :rolleyes:

Jools

I honestly feel that spending 3 years writing Geography essays hasn't prepared me or developed my skills for the world of work whatsoever.

was it supposed to in the first place? i believe uni is a time to learn to be independant, enjoy life a bit, and get some specialized knowledge along the way. you develop the specific skills necessary for the workplace, at the workplace. (other more general skills you pick up along the way anyway.)

Reply 28

Brown Patrick Bateman

10

khl31

was it supposed to in the first place? i believe uni is a time to learn to be independant, enjoy life a bit, and get some specialized knowledge along the way. you develop the specific skills necessary for the workplace, at the workplace. (other more general skills you pick up along the way anyway.)

I didn't say it was, I was referring to all the skills WhatFreshHell suggested you gain from doing a degree. Oxbridge explicitly aims for an academic experience, many ex-polytechnics which do vocational courses more explicitly highlight the value of a degree in employability terms. For most people it's a bit of both, but 100+ unis don't exist across the country primarily for people to enjoy life and learn to be independent (especially when a sizeable number live at home).

Reply 29

dappleddawndrawndauphin

3

Edinburgh looks fantastic to me I am def going to apply there

I'm halfway through my AS year and considering applying to Oxford. Ideally I'd like to go to either Oxford, York or Durham... but the competition is kinda freaky!

My G score is probably pretty below average for Oxbridge candidates (although I don't know how much these actually count for) : 7.3 - 5 A*s, 3 As and a C in Maths. I'm hoping to get 4 As at AS and 4 As at A level in English Literature, History, French and Law, although can never be 100% sure obviously!

I'd like to study a combined course of English and History (appallingly I don't think this course is offered at Cambridge but that's by the by), and I was just wondering if anyone can give me any advice firstly on whether trying for a combined course will seriously diminish my chances (only 15% of applicants get in for the course at Oxford which does not sound good), and whether I stand a chance as far as my results are concerned. I am a pretty dedicated student and - fingers crossed! - hope I'd come across well in interview as being passionate about my chose subjs.

Anyways would really appreciate any advice you guys could give me :smile:

Reply 30

Font

OP

*Bethany*

5 A*s, 3 As and a C in Maths. I'm hoping to get 4 As at AS and 4 As at A level in English Literature, History, French and Law, although can never be 100% sure obviously!)

wtf...that's way cool credentials you got there....and expectations...you do fit the entry requirements for GCSE...now concentrate on your AS's

Reply 31

fishpaste

Drogue

That's because PartIII is a 4th year course, and a much harder course than the 3 year BA at Oxford and Cambridge. IIRC, you need a first to get onto Part III, in your Part II exams. Yes Cambridge is much better for maths than Oxford, but compare an Oxford BA with a Cambridge BA, not a Cambridge BA+1 year course. Part III is a postgrad course.

I'm talking about Oxford graduates who have done three years at Oxford vs Cambridge graduates who have done three years at Cambridge. They can both apply for CASM. And you don't need a 1st in partII to do partIII, you can usually stay on with a 2.1, unless your DoS hates you. PartIII/CASM isn't a PhD courses, it's just a 'masters.'

Reply 32

fishpaste

khl31

i'd be careful to make that claim... :secruity: lots of american, as well as far eastern universities have VERY strong maths departments. indians and orientals have a knack for maths, and americans can afford to throw enough money at somebody until they get good at it :rolleyes:

Agreed, Princeton for example is quite well reknowned here, and steals lots of people from here, like Andrew Wiles, John Conway. It also has people like John Nash in its history!

Reply 33

Squishy

11

I'd agree Cambridge has got the strongest reputation for maths in the UK (although there are still many other good departments), but even in Europe it faces stiff competition...most of the best young European mathematicians seem to come from countries like Bulgaria anyway.

Reply 34

fishpaste

Squishy

I'd agree Cambridge has got the strongest reputation for maths in the UK (although there are still many other good departments), but even in Europe it faces stiff competition...most of the best young European mathematicians seem to come from countries like Bulgaria anyway.

gosh i wouldn't go that far, it's not like they're all going to stay in their country, partIII in particular is known for its skimming the best from other countries.

Reply 35

Squishy

11

fishpaste

gosh i wouldn't go that far, it's not like they're all going to stay in their country, partIII in particular is known for its skimming the best from other countries.

Yeah, that's also a lot to do with English being the dominant language of mathematics/science and pretty much everything else at the moment. I just think it's a bit insular for all these British academics to be claiming we have no rival scientific/mathematical institutions in Europe, or anywhere else apart from the US...not all the best students pack their bags and leave Europe/Asia or wherever to come here...the distribution of bright people around the world is pretty uniform, and there are still good opportunities in other countries...the fact that we generally know very little about foreign universities while they've heard of us suggests more about our ignorance than their being bad at what they do.

Reply 36

Ipsen

If you could spend sometimes looking at French very top Grandes Ecoles, you may see how fortunate Cambridge is being an *English-speaking* univ.

For theoretical studies in Maths, if I had a choice, and a crave for the subject, I would throw away Cam offer to run for an acceptance from Ecole Normale Superieur in Paris.

Reply 37

Drogue

19

Really? From my knowledge of Ecole Normale Superieur (a friend of mine graduated from there last year, now doing some postgrad thing), I know it's a great uni, but better for maths than Cambridge? Based on what? I admit the Grand Ecoles are up with the top in the UK, but the highest ranked uni doing one of the courses it's best at is a very hard thing to discount, and is what Cambridge maths is.

Reply 38

Ipsen

I personally don't know what they teach at ENS, but happen to know some of its UG students, who are from the same country as I am. Knowing their capabilities, and based on their personal comments on their peers at ENS, I judge the school to be horribly good, at least in attracting the very best students in Pure Maths studies from all over the world, who are not concerned with post-grad money much - you all know the popularity of French language in the world compared with English.

Another great French school is the Polytechnique. Arguably it is the best engineering school in the French-speaking world.

Reply 39

Feefifofum

16

To be honest, any decent standard Oxbridge degree is going to stand you in good stead for whatever you want to do in life - I doubt it matters that much which one it comes from. Each university and each course has its benefits and its downfalls, so I wouldn't let it influence your application too much, just think which one you'd be happier at. Simple as that.

Oxford or Cambridge; does it matter?

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