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Is it morally wrong to eat meat? watch

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    (Original post by endeavour)
    Listen to Zarathustra - he speaks of sense


    Awww...thanks

    (Sorry, I'm kind of a "she" though )

    ZarathustraX

    EDIT: mvmv: I am sorry to have ignored you. I can't find your post though! Can you link me to it?
    EDIT 2: Oh hang on (*has scanned through thread again*)...tell me you don't mean the one about veggie bodybuilders? :eek: lol...
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    For it to be morallly wrong there must be a bad consequence of eating meat. The bad consequence I would imagine that veggies would argue is that is the lost of life of the animal. The question is surely whether that animals life is worth anything?
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    (Original post by mvmv)
    i want a reply to my post Zarathustra, so far uhave ingnored me

    if u can answer the questions in my last post, ill be very surprised
    Mvmv, although i'm all for eating meat, how about you put in some of your amazing evidence rather than asking people to answer your questions, just like you did in the "other" thread, i'm sure you know wich one. :bebored:
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    (Original post by wiwarin_mir)
    What evidence have you got that not eating meat is healthier?
    Good point. Most vegetarians look like they're about to keel over to me; palid looking people......need a damn good steak inside their bellies if you ask me.
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    This looks like an appropriate place to refer to Maddox-

    Sponsor A Vegetarian
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    (Original post by Kuddly!)
    AND can i make it clear that if ure vegeterian it does not mean YOU Lack nutrition...........if anything eating meat/being non veggie can cause agression (this has been pointed out by mahatma gandhi), and it keeps the fats low and cholesterol levels low....and technically keeps you fit and ensure you are health.

    Protein can be found in beans, nuts, loadsa green veggies, and also MILK!..
    Was Ghandi a nutrition expert? something tells me not.
    Was he not a hindu though?

    Also beans, nuts and milk do not contail the same types of protein found in meat, and you need a variety of amino acids. Meat is rich in certain types which are not so abundant in vegetables and things.

    And how does being a vegetarian "technically" keep you fit? It technically doesn't because you need excercise to stay fit. If anything, a diet which is higher in carbohydrates and lower in protein is likely to make you put on more weight.
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    (Original post by Saagar)
    Mvmv, although i'm all for eating meat, how about you put in some of your amazing evidence rather than asking people to answer your questions, just like you did in the "other" thread, i'm sure you know wich one. :bebored:
    LOL ! AMAZING EVIDENCE??? you make it sound like no-one knows about this !!

    lol!

    read mik1a's post

    so zara... wtv ur name is, u wanna reply???

    have u ever heard of a vegtarian body builder??
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    (Original post by mvmv)
    have u ever heard of a vegtarian body builder??
    no, was that your devastating arguement?
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    no, was that your devastating arguement?
    and y is that???

    because they cant ge the proper protiens/vitamins etc to build muscles properly

    read mik1a's post

    it destroys any argument u can come up with
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    Sainsbury's semi-skimmed Milk - 100ml contains 3.4g
    wow.. now there's a lot.
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    (Original post by mvmv)
    and y is that???

    because they cant ge the proper protiens/vitamins etc to build muscles properly

    read mik1a's post

    it destroys any argument u can come up with
    cos being a body bulider is so healthy.:rolleyes:

    If we wanted to enough i am sure humanity could come up with a diet supplement that replaced the vitamins.
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    Wow this thread really grew while I was out today. It will take hours to address every post so I will just address the main points I see here.

    One argument I notice is that God intended us to eat meat. Two ways of seeing this. Firstly, from what is said in scriptures such as the bible. This is clearly a bad argument. The bible also says slavery is ok, amongst other things. Most Christians will agree this is inherently wrong.

    The other way is to say that eating meat is natural. For example we have canine teeth so we "have to use them to rip meat apart". This is an invalid argument. "Naturalness" is not a plea to morality. Emotions such as jealousy and hatred are natural, does that mean they are good? Of course not.

    Animals eat each other. And yes, they also eat us from time to time. This is simply irrelevant. Animals eat each other to survive, my original argument is that we don't need to eat animals to survive. Can a lion survive eating leaves? And it is extremely speculative to suggest animals can grasp the difference between right and wrong, in fact I would say that its almost a certainty they don't. Therefore they cannot be blamed for what they do. Children sometimes don't know what is right and what is wrong - say they hit each other for no reason. I suppose that means we should hit children for no reason.

    "Eating meat is healthy!!" So therefore, I and millions of other vegetarians must be unhealthy. Yet look, we are alive and well. There is scientific evidence that a balanced vegetarian diet is extremely healthy, healthier than the vast majority of meat eaters' diets. Myself and millions of other veggies excell at sport, and often live longer- something else backed up by evidence (look for it yourself, I'm lazy). In the event this evidence is wrong, it would be extremely clear if non vegetarians were more than a couple per cent healthier on average, so even if meat was minutely more healthy, would it justify commiting an otherwise immoral act? All this talk about "better proteins" is missing the mark completely.

    "Animals lives are worthless!!" Why? Because they are not intelligent? What about mentally impaired people. There are plenty of humans born each year who amount to little more than vegetables. Should we use this sad fact to justify eating mental patients? Are their lives worthless?


    Sorry guys, but I've yet to see one intelligent argument. Right now I feel like eating some of you more than a steak or turkey leg.
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    (Original post by mvmv)
    so zara... wtv ur name is, u wanna reply???

    have u ever heard of a vegtarian body builder??
    There's no need to be rude! I had already specified above that the reason for my lack of response was that I was unsure exactly which of your posts you wanted a response to.

    Personally, no, I have never heard of a vegetarian body builder. But that means very little, as I have never heard of any bodybuilders - such things do not interest me. Even if I was interested, I doubt I would know which bodybuilders (if any) are vegetarian, so it is not really an answerable question.

    May I ask why exactly the responsibility fell to me to respond to this rather bizarre question? Especially considering that you appear to be using it as evidence for the fact that vegetarianism is a bad thing - do please remember, I was arguing for meat-eaters. It would perhaps have been wiser to address it to someone who was saying that vegetarians are healthier, thus effectively devestating their arguments with your perceptively incisive interrogations.

    ZarathustraX
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    "Animals lives are worthless!!" Why? Because they are not intelligent? What about mentally impaired people. There are plenty of humans born each year who amount to little more than vegetables. Should we use this sad fact to justify eating mental patients? Are their lives worthless?
    Comparing mental imparied patients to animals is offensive to mental imparied patients. You have yet to say here why animal lives are so worthy?
    We do not eat mental imparied patients for the same reason we dont eat any other human being.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Comparing mental imparied patients to animals is offensive to mental imparied patients. You have yet to say here why animal lives are so worthy?
    We do not eat mental imparied patients for the same reason we dont eat any other human being.
    Why is it offensive? Please locate and explain the differential between someone unfortunate enough to be born with severe mental disabilities to the point they will never reach a level of sophistication higher than a new born, and an average animal. Please explain what this reason is that we don't eat other human beings.

    I am not saying animals should get special treatment, simply that they are capable of having a happy life, free of pain. At the very least we must concede that because animals have pain receptors and react to being hurt, that they have feelings such as pain. I feel it is immoral to lock them up in battery cages and the like, making their quality of life miserable, and preventing them from living the lives they would have, had we not caputured/ bred tham and finally killing them for our own satisfaction.
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    One argument I notice is that God intended us to eat meat. Two ways of seeing this. Firstly, from what is said in scriptures such as the bible. This is clearly a bad argument. The bible also says slavery is ok, amongst other things. Most Christians will agree this is inherently wrong.
    Who on Earth said that God intended us to eat meat?! The only argument I recall involving God was kuddly!'s "animals are god's creatures therefore we should not eat them" post.

    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    The other way is to say that eating meat is natural. For example we have canine teeth so we "have to use them to rip meat apart". This is an invalid argument. "Naturalness" is not a plea to morality. Emotions such as jealousy and hatred are natural, does that mean they are good? Of course not.
    No, "naturalness" does not imply "moral acceptability", but since the phrase "it's unnatural" is used to condemn so many things, it's good to get that cleared up. Also, one sees the behaviour of animals eating each other as morally acceptable precisely because of the excuse that "it's natural", so I see little reason not to extend such an argument to encompass all animals (ie. humans, too), unless the validity of using it in the case of animals is to be denied.
    So, perhaps we have yet to prove that it is ok - but then again, you have yet to prove that it's "wrong".

    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    Animals eat each other. And yes, they also eat us from time to time. This is simply irrelevant. Animals eat each other to survive, my original argument is that we don't need to eat animals to survive. Can a lion survive eating leaves? And it is extremely speculative to suggest animals can grasp the difference between right and wrong, in fact I would say that its almost a certainty they don't. Therefore they cannot be blamed for what they do. Children sometimes don't know what is right and what is wrong - say they hit each other for no reason. I suppose that means we should hit children for no reason.
    Well, for a start, we may not have stuck inviolately to your original argument - apologies. I think you'll find that one (or two, can't remember) people came along and accused it being wrong outright, so much of this thread has consisted of responses to that.

    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    "Eating meat is healthy!!" So therefore, I and millions of other vegetarians must be unhealthy. Yet look, we are alive and well. There is scientific evidence that a balanced vegetarian diet is extremely healthy, healthier than the vast majority of meat eaters' diets. Myself and millions of other veggies excell at sport, and often live longer- something else backed up by evidence (look for it yourself, I'm lazy). In the event this evidence is wrong, it would be extremely clear if non vegetarians were more than a couple per cent healthier on average, so even if meat was minutely more healthy, would it justify commiting an otherwise immoral act? All this talk about "better proteins" is missing the mark completely.
    Firstly, in a similar way that you claim "naturalness" not to indicate moral acceptability, I would argue that "healthiness" does not do so either. So the fact that vegetarians are healthy is equally irrelevant.
    Secondly, as I said above, it's rather presumptuous to say that even if meat-eating was healther, it might still not "justify commiting an otherwise immoral act" until you have proven that it is otherwise immoral.

    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    "Animals lives are worthless!!" Why? Because they are not intelligent? What about mentally impaired people. There are plenty of humans born each year who amount to little more than vegetables. Should we use this sad fact to justify eating mental patients? Are their lives worthless?
    Who said that animals lives were worthless, please?

    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    Sorry guys, but I've yet to see one intelligent argument. Right now I feel like eating some of you more than a steak or turkey leg.
    Perhaps you would have found the experience of reading this thread much more rewarding if you had stopped clinging pedantically to your original post, which many of us had long forgotten, and just followed the argument as it developed - judging responses in terms of how effectively they dealt with the posts they were specifically aimed at.

    ZarathustraX
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    I'm not a vegetarian although haven't eaten meat in a while but I think it should be a choice for sure what you eat, we were naturally predators so of course most of us have a taste for meat.
    The main problem I see with vegetarianism is if every person in the world became vegetarian what would we do with the animals? Chickens, turkeys, sheep, cows have all been domesticated and rely on us, they have nowhere else to go. The only thing I disagree on is killing them by throat slashing it takes too long for them to die, quick and painless bolt in the brain I'm fine with. We live in a society were we do unnatural and what some would consider cruel things such as abortion and fox hunting so why is there such a gigantic problem with doing something that's been a natural behaviour among the entire animal kingdom for so long?
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    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    Why is it offensive? Please locate and explain the differential between someone unfortunate enough to be born with severe mental disabilities to the point they will never reach a level of sophistication higher than a new born, and an average animal. Please explain what this reason is that we don't eat other human beings.
    You are trying to convice me that all animals should recieve the same level of care as mental impaired people?
    To start with many mental impaired people have a normal standard of life before they are impaired by accident ect. Hence should we think any less of them due to misfortune? This is not the case with animals who are inherently "unsophisticated".

    This factor is also the same for those born with the diease, we hope one day to be able to cure of them of the diease so they can fufil they capacity to understand and interact with the environment. This is no the case for animals who have fufilled their ability to understand.
    (Original post by cheesecakebobby)
    I am not saying animals should get special treatment, simply that they are capable of having a happy life, free of pain. At the very least we must concede that because animals have pain receptors and react to being hurt, that they have feelings such as pain. I feel it is immoral to lock them up in battery cages and the like, making their quality of life miserable, and preventing them from living the lives they would have, had we not caputured/ bred tham and finally killing them for our own satisfaction.
    If they live a pain free life and they are killed humainly most of this paragraph is irelevant. I accept that this is not the case, however when I can I buy free range ect. To me this is not a moral arguement but an arguement against it being impractical.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    Comparing mental imparied patients to animals is offensive to mental imparied patients. You have yet to say here why animal lives are so worthy?
    We do not eat mental imparied patients for the same reason we dont eat any other human being.
    How can you be offended if you are mentally impaired? I should have thought you'd need to be compus mentus enough to realize you are being insulted and therefore feel offended.
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    (Original post by Speciez99)
    We do not eat mental imparied patients for the same reason we dont eat any other human being.
    And why don't we eat clowns? Because they taste a bit funny......LOL.....
 
 
 
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