Quadraticfunctn
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Hi,


I have got a first class honours undergraduate degree in Cyber security and I am unemployed, I hold three certifications in addition to my piece of paper (degree) I already hold. I applied to number of cyber positions and I have been rejected by all of them and now I am applying for cleaning jobs in companies. I would never ever advise anyone to study "Cyber security" at university as you can't learn the industry needed hardcore technical skills just by studying few months at a university. Whole cyber security job skill shortage is a myth and universities don't have the experienced and qualified people in cyber/computer security.

I am currently applying for cleaning positions yes cleaning work to mop floors and hover carpets, empty bins and clean toilets for the multitalented people in companies. £27k went into gutter with a third class quality of education, and the university I attended is one of the cyber universities of the year. Whole ranking thing is a scam and a way to lure sheep like me to waste time and money. Hopefully, I will get a cleaning job somewhere after studying and writing high quality assignments as I have to work somewhere to earn living. I regret it and would never advise anyone to attend university with a hope to get a decent job/career.
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0le
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So some questions so that we can help:

  • How many applications have you made?
  • How many interviews have you had?
  • What certifications do you have?
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by 0le)
So some questions so that we can help:

  • How many applications have you made?
  • How many interviews have you had?
  • What certifications do you have?
Countless applications over the past few weeks/months and no interviews at all as I would get a rejection email after every application ranging from few days to weeks. Got comptia certs(Network, security, Linux) in addition to the degree. Got rejected by Accenture, Fujitsu, Airbus, NHS, and number of other companies I can't even remember the names. Applied to even non-cyber positions within the NHS and got refusals, positions like a receptionist, ward clerk, health records etc. It seems like this field is way too competitive and needs contacts to get in for an entry level SOC position. A lot of people who are currently working within SOCs don't even have cyber/computer science related University degrees, which makes me wonder why am I getting rejected!!!

Not even remotely interested in this career anymore as so many refusals are really demoralising and I regret studying this subject which has no prospects. There are way too many over qualified people in IT security with a lot of experience so this skill shortage is just a big lie. I check my LinkedIn regularly for jobs, and for every cyber related position there are literally between 50 to 200 applicants. It feels like this degree is as useful as a degree in German poker history. I have applied to few cleaning positions in hotels, but due to covid a lot of hotels are either close or not hiring staff as usual. I have been rejected for jobs which don't even need a degree so I reckon cleaning jobs would be a great option. If I can't find any job then I will just stay home on the universal credit like a lot of other people or learn to something more useful like some trade etc. Plumbing I have been looking into recently, hopefully I can at least clean and unblock toilets for people.
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Tubbsy_al
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Look at armed forces for officer
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by Tubbsy_al)
Look at armed forces for officer
I'm too old for it now as I'm 33 now and the age limit for that is 28.
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0le
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Countless applications over the past few weeks/months and no interviews at all as I would get a rejection email after every application ranging from few days to weeks. Got comptia certs(Network, security, Linux) in addition to the degree. Got rejected by Accenture, Fujitsu, Airbus, NHS, and number of other companies I can't even remember the names. Applied to even non-cyber positions within the NHS and got refusals, positions like a receptionist, ward clerk, health records etc. It seems like this field is way too competitive and needs contacts to get in for an entry level SOC position. A lot of people who are currently working within SOCs don't even have cyber/computer science related University degrees, which makes me wonder why am I getting rejected!!!

Not even remotely interested in this career anymore as so many refusals are really demoralising and I regret studying this subject which has no prospects. There are way too many over qualified people in IT security with a lot of experience so this skill shortage is just a big lie. I check my LinkedIn regularly for jobs, and for every cyber related position there are literally between 50 to 200 applicants. It feels like this degree is as useful as a degree in German poker history. I have applied to few cleaning positions in hotels, but due to covid a lot of hotels are either close or not hiring staff as usual. I have been rejected for jobs which don't even need a degree so I reckon cleaning jobs would be a great option. If I can't find any job then I will just stay home on the universal credit like a lot of other people or learn to something more useful like some trade etc. Plumbing I have been looking into recently, hopefully I can at least clean and unblock toilets for people.
The compia certs are good and in my opinion ae useful to put on a CV when you are a graduate. Since you have not managed to get any interviews it suggests you may need to improve your CV, cover letter and test scores. TSR provides an excellent (and anonymous) service for free to improve your CV and cover letters here:
https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/forumdisplay.php?f=339

Numerical and logic tests can be practised using free tests available online from numerous places. Situational tests are more difficult but generally you want to come across as willing to do extra work, willingness to lead and take on responsibility etc, but it varies depending on role/company.

Answer any application form questions, where appropriate, using the STAR based approach:
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice...onse-technique

Video assessments (where you record questions) are trickier, but generally follow all the advice about interviewing over video, i.e. plain background, decent lighting, landscape mode (phones). The trick for them is being commercially aware and also being very concise.

I can appreciate how disheartening it is to keep getting rejected but you shouldn't give up. Take a 2-3 week break from things and re-evaluate in January with a refreshed mindset.

I am also job hunting and I've found that the "easy apply" jobs in linkedin and the recruitment agents like "tiptopjob" and "oho" never lead anywhere.
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threeportdrift
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Hi,


I have got a first class honours undergraduate degree in Cyber security and I am unemployed, I hold three certifications in addition to my piece of paper (degree) I already hold. I applied to number of cyber positions and I have been rejected by all of them and now I am applying for cleaning jobs in companies. I would never ever advise anyone to study "Cyber security" at university as you can't learn the industry needed hardcore technical skills just by studying few months at a university. Whole cyber security job skill shortage is a myth and universities don't have the experienced and qualified people in cyber/computer security.

I am currently applying for cleaning positions yes cleaning work to mop floors and hover carpets, empty bins and clean toilets for the multitalented people in companies. £27k went into gutter with a third class quality of education, and the university I attended is one of the cyber universities of the year. Whole ranking thing is a scam and a way to lure sheep like me to waste time and money. Hopefully, I will get a cleaning job somewhere after studying and writing high quality assignments as I have to work somewhere to earn living. I regret it and would never advise anyone to attend university with a hope to get a decent job/career.
It's not your qualifications that are the problem, it's your application style. Your CV/application forms aren't being effective.

Open a private thread in CV Help on here, upload your CV as a Word doc and put in a link to a relevant job app and you can get advice you make your applications for competitive.
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Quadraticfunctn
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I don't really think there is any problem with my CV as it was checked and tweaked by the University careers, it covers all the necessary and relevant information for cyber related jobs. It's probably my lack of work experience and the combination of the fact that there are not many entry level jobs around within cyber which need people like me i.e. fresh graduates with no experience. I literally begged people for experience and any voluntary work experience opportunities on LinkedIn and to people in person ,but no one gave a dime about it. I passed a situational judgement test with a company which is apparently is one of the hardest bits during a recruitment process, so I wouldn't say I am completely dull and have no idea on how to assess and analyse things in life. As an ethnic minority person I have now started to think that it's either my name on my CV/applications or that extra information section in job applications which ask about your ethnicity is proving to be a hindrance.

I have no drive and no passion left anymore to apply for these "cyber" jobs, so I have been lately applying to number of jobs including cleaning work, housekeeping jobs in hotels, looked in to train as a plumber, and now thinking to drive taxi after the lockdown is over. People are just too arrogant, have no compassion, or any honesty. I have got an interview offer for health support worker in a care home, which I have accepted and will hopefully get it. Wish I never attended university and continued to work full time where I was employed before going to the university, I would have saved £30k in the past 3 years which I wasted over a bag of crap degree.
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Quadraticfunctn
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There are people with degrees in accounting, humanities, Biology and other completely irrelevant subjects who are working within the Cyber security industry as managers and SOC analysts, I just feel that there is definitely something wrong with me.

How someone with a degree in humanities can satisfy the hiring manager/company that he/she is suitable for a SOC position when most of them require at least some sort of IT, computer science or security education? How on earth a person with an undergraduate degree in humanities and religious studies reflect the fact that the person is passionate about cyber security? I'm just completely clueless and astonished at the education these people have and the jobs they are in!!!

Going with this completely new and peculiar trend to get hired in the cyber security, I reckon you could become a doctor and setup your own surgery as of course you don't exactly need any career/field pertinent qualifications these days. Everyone is jumping on to the cyber security bandwagon as apparently no company cares about what's your educational background or if you have even any remote interest in computer security. It sounds like contacts can get people anywhere, all this hard work and passion for the field is just rubbish talk.

Just get a degree in literally any subject and you are suitable for a cyber career except a degree in cyber security which makes you completely unsuitable and inappropriate for a SOC/entry level cyber position. You don't need any coding knowledge, malware, security concepts, pen testing, incident response or anything which has got to do with cyber and you are just the perfect candidate for a SOC position. I will be looking to start working as either a doctor, dentist or a Barrister as of course no one cares what you have studied!! i was being completely pessimistic about my future when I can start literally any career without needing any qualifications. High quality and advanced degree in psychology is definitely more suitable to work as a SOC analyst then someone who worked hard three years studying cyber security and coding etc.
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Stefan P Bargan
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Hi,


I have got a first class honours undergraduate degree in Cyber security and I am unemployed, I hold three certifications in addition to my piece of paper (degree) I already hold. I applied to number of cyber positions and I have been rejected by all of them and now I am applying for cleaning jobs in companies. I would never ever advise anyone to study "Cyber security" at university as you can't learn the industry needed hardcore technical skills just by studying few months at a university. Whole cyber security job skill shortage is a myth and universities don't have the experienced and qualified people in cyber/computer security.

I am currently applying for cleaning positions yes cleaning work to mop floors and hover carpets, empty bins and clean toilets for the multitalented people in companies. £27k went into gutter with a third class quality of education, and the university I attended is one of the cyber universities of the year. Whole ranking thing is a scam and a way to lure sheep like me to waste time and money. Hopefully, I will get a cleaning job somewhere after studying and writing high quality assignments as I have to work somewhere to earn living. I regret it and would never advise anyone to attend university with a hope to get a decent job/career.
First Class Honours - Congrats

You have a degree in Cyber, are you applying for any role other than 'Junior'? As you stand no chance to get something else, even with a degree yes. Industry Needed Hardcore Technical Skills like? Also, University is more about self studying. You have CompTIA certs but remember, those are beginner certs. Try to apply for a Help Desk position instead and work on more certs, CCNA/CCNP , OSCP, CEH. also 27k?

CompTIA is not the best if you want a role that doesn't have the 'junior' title.

It feels that you had your expectations set too high by just completing a degree, if you're into red teaming have you done any THM or HTB challenges? It's always good to show off on LinkedIn with those tbh.

You said that you don't have any experience, well that's what volunteering is for. Plenty of IT Volunteering opportunities available Online. I used to be a Volunteer Web Dev for a Charity in Peru.

Well, that's all, if you wanna talk more or need some help then message me here or add me on Discord, I have a Cyber Security Discord server.


zCreed96CftE#7335
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rockhead08
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Universities are just a waste of time in this day and age.

Online income is the future. Having your own online business is the best way to earn a living.

Many people are put off by it but it’s easier than you think. Just need the right guide/course/mentor to get started.

Don’t work for money, make money make for you.
Last edited by rockhead08; 2 months ago
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Quadraticfunctn
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Thanks for replying, I worked hard three years and applied for numerous positions not only within cyber, but positions in general everywhere else just to see if I could find any job just to leverage my university degree in a hope that it would make me stand out of the competition. It's just HARD to find anything with this stupid degree, I can't believe a genuine British degree has almost no value to employers, every tom **** and harry is apparently "passionate" about cyber security by studying therapeutic studies, humanities and religious studies, law, accounting, psychology, criminology and of course the most powerful of all sociology. I worked hard three years with a hope of landing at least some job paying me just a little better then a job which doesn't require a degree, I never expected miracles, but a decent entry level job paying 18K plus, which doesn't necessarily have to be in IT or Cyber joke.

I have played a bit with THM and HTB, but it's all pretty much useless as no body really cares about what certs or degree I have got as at the end of the day it's all about who you know. That concept of merit and suitability for a job has been completely put aside. Should have done some trade course instead of attending a joke university course which has only depressed me more and felt bloody miserable ever since. It seems like every other person on this planet with a degree in even anthropology or even exercise science is more useful and suitable to be employed in cyber security except a cyber security degree, what a joke!!!

Spent a fair bit of money on certs so I am not interested to spend one more penny on these certs as experience and contacts help more then certs for sure.

Will be driving taxi with that part-time health care support worker job after Xmas and lockdown, a word of advice for anyone considering a cyber career "study anything literally anything for three years, have contacts and if you are not a coloured person then you are pretty much guaranteed a cyber job except a degree in cyber"
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by Stefan P Bargan)
First Class Honours - Congrats

You have a degree in Cyber, are you applying for any role other than 'Junior'? As you stand no chance to get something else, even with a degree yes. Industry Needed Hardcore Technical Skills like? Also, University is more about self studying. You have CompTIA certs but remember, those are beginner certs. Try to apply for a Help Desk position instead and work on more certs, CCNA/CCNP , OSCP, CEH. also 27k?
Three years in University cost 27K plus the time I wasted and the money I could have saved had i not attended that bag of s*** course. 10k easily I could have save which makes me sad, I would have had 30K in savings over the past 3 years rather then being in debt and no promise of a better future. University is of course gives no guarantees and I'm not stupid, but it hurts that it was all wasted and I feel completely useless.
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by rockhead08)
Universities are just a waste of time in this day and age.

Online income is the future. Having your own online business is the best way to earn a living.

Many people are put off by it but it’s easier than you think. Just need the right guide/course/mentor to get started.

Don’t work for money, make money make for you.
Agreed 100% and this pandemic will definitely change the way people used to think about universities. They are all doing online lectures so why are they still charging the full £9K fee per annum? No face to face interaction or use of any University faculties ,but fee is still the same, what a joke!!!!! For an hour to few hours worth of "lectures" they charge unbelievably hefty fees and leave people in debt and no guarantee of anything. The bottom-line is AVOID university and learn things online.
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StarLinyx
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Three years in University cost 27K plus the time I wasted and the money I could have saved had i not attended that bag of s*** course. 10k easily I could have save which makes me sad, I would have had 30K in savings over the past 3 years rather then being in debt and no promise of a better future. University is of course gives no guarantees and I'm not stupid, but it hurts that it was all wasted and I feel completely useless.
Which university did you go to? Have you applied to MI5, M16, GCHQ, Banks, the Met Police etc.? Did the degree come with an intern or placement?
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by StarLinyx)
Which university did you go to? Have you applied to MI5, M16, GCHQ, Banks, the Met Police etc.? Did the degree come with an intern or placement?
Never applied to them and not interested either as they are again super competitive and no point of getting more refusals, applied for forensics investigator position with police long time ago and then never heard anything back from them, it might have been rejected probably ort hey just never bothered to reply back with a refusal as they must have had hundreds of applications. Went to south wales university, avoid that uni it's a complete joke.
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StarLinyx
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Never applied to them and not interested either as they are again super competitive and no point of getting more refusals, applied for forensics investigator position with police long time ago and then never heard anything back from them, it might have been rejected probably ort hey just never bothered to reply back with a refusal as they must have had hundreds of applications. Went to south wales university, avoid that uni it's a complete joke.
Not the best of universities, but not the worst in the UK. Even graduates with a 2.1 and 2.2 from top 10 universities like Warwick and Bristol struggle to get good jobs, so no surprises really. There are far too many graduates competing for entry level jobs. I do a part-time PhD, and work in security ad-hoc, though I do this by choice.
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Quadraticfunctn
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(Original post by StarLinyx)
Not the best of universities, but not the worst in the UK. Even graduates with a 2.1 and 2.2 from top 10 universities like Warwick and Bristol struggle to get good jobs, so no surprises really. There are far too many graduates competing for entry level jobs. I do a part-time PhD, and work in security ad-hoc, though I do this by choice.
Exactly, that's why i have stopped looking for these "Cyber" jobs and will be driving taxi and work in a care home. It's shameful that people are struggling and yet there is a shortage of skilled professionals in STEM careers. It's just ridiculous and really pathetic.
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0le
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(Original post by Quadraticfunctn)
Never applied to them and not interested either as they are again super competitive and no point of getting more refusals, applied for forensics investigator position with police long time ago and then never heard anything back from them, it might have been rejected probably ort hey just never bothered to reply back with a refusal as they must have had hundreds of applications. Went to south wales university, avoid that uni it's a complete joke.
For what it is worth, I've made more inroads in applying for the big companies than these so called small companies. I've had about 5-10 interviews out of 70 applications and only one was with a so called "small company". In my opinion, the small companies are far pickier and have equally large number of people applying who all presume it is easier, which ultimately makes it just as difficult to stand out from the crowd. In comparison, the larger companies just use tests and video assessments. Pass these and you guarantee someone will at least look at your application.

I noticed you mention you thought diversity may be at play here. This also is another reason why you should apply for larger companies. They tend to be more diverse and have better policies in place for people from different backgrounds and disabilities.

Don't stop applying for small companies sure, but just don't neglect big ones as well - it is a mistake I've made already.
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the bear
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have you thought about being self-employed ? you are clearly a talented person & could provide cyber security services to people in your local area.
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