Anonymous #1
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I did my SJT today (for 5th year medical students), and I'm pretty sure I failed it. I read the GMC good medical practice and did the practice questions but felt the exam this year was a lot different with the new rating questions and the new way of ranking options.

Anyone know how low you have to get to not be able to gradate? I applied for all London deaneries and I'm 100% sure I'm not gonna make it into them even tho my EPM was good
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junior.doctor
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I don’t have any advice on score cut offs etc. But I wanted to say please don’t assume you’ve done badly just yet, even though it may feel like it. Wait till you’ve got your results. There’s also a good chance that if you found it hard, all your peers did too. And it’s very probable that you haven’t done as badly as you think.
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Chief Wiggum
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I would say it's pretty difficult to "fail" the SJT. It's also an exam that is very difficult to predict your performance on.

I'd advise just waiting until you get your results.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by junior.doctor)
I don’t have any advice on score cut offs etc. But I wanted to say please don’t assume you’ve done badly just yet, even though it may feel like it. Wait till you’ve got your results. There’s also a good chance that if you found it hard, all your peers did too. And it’s very probable that you haven’t done as badly as you think.
A lot of my peers said they found it easy or okay. Which is why i feel like that :/
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Chief Wiggum)
I would say it's pretty difficult to "fail" the SJT. It's also an exam that is very difficult to predict your performance on.

I'd advise just waiting until you get your results.
Thank you, I get what you're saying but unfortunately, I have a feeling I'm going to end up in the middle of nowhere :/ That's probably my biggest concern and what i'm terrified of.
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junior.doctor
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(Original post by Anonymous)
A lot of my peers said they found it easy or okay. Which is why i feel like that :/
It’s so difficult to predict how you’ve done. So again don’t be too reassured or concerned by what they think. It really is only once you’ve got your results in hand that you can know for sure and then think about what they mean for you, good or bad. I would reiterate the comment above that it’s very difficult to actually fail it (and there are procedures for the unlikely event that that happens). In terms of being sent further away... Yes that’s not easy, but there are still plenty of people who manage to have a good time and a good experience, even if they’re starting out somewhere new for a while. Worst case scenario, it’s two years and then you can reapply for speciality training in a preferred area. But again, cross that bridge if and when it comes.
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HHaricot
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Thank you, I get what you're saying but unfortunately, I have a feeling I'm going to end up in the middle of nowhere :/ That's probably my biggest concern and what i'm terrified of.
I hope you have been reassured that failing it is unusual. You would still graduate from medical school, as the exam isnt linked to your medical school assessment even if you did fail [which is really unlikely]. For those that do actually manage to do really badly [very few] the UKFPO have a remediation offer [it was an interview/viva last year]
As to ending up ‘in the middle of nowhere’ , it can seem pretty daunting to move somewhere new, particularly at the moment. But it isnt the end of the world, you get to see new places, meet new people and perhaps have an option to think about things differently.
What i am mostly going to say tho is, OK, you have had time to worry about this, but now park it and move on. You cant change things that have happened, you can make sure that you graduate, and that you make the most of wherever you do foundation.
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asif007
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You haven't failed an exam until you get confirmation in your hand that says failure and what the repercussions are, so don't get ahead of yourself. I see it on TSR all the time - medical students are premature anticipators of failure when in fact it turns out they pass and had nothing to worry about all along. Somebody mentioned already that the SJT isn't linked to your medical school performance (I didn't know that), so you can still graduate and become a doctor even if you do fail it. As in, no negative consequences at all. I think that's something to be grateful for. It could be much worse - you haven't failed any of the high-stakes medical school exams in which failure leads to resits, dropping down a year or being kicked out. So what if you get a job in the middle of nowhere, in an area you don't like? Be grateful that you have a job to walk into in the first place, considering how many people are on furlough or have been made redundant during this pandemic. In that respect, doctors are actually very lucky to be able to continue working - but medical students are even more lucky because your exams have been predominantly online and you have the privilege of a job waiting for you at the end. All you have to do is fill out the paperwork. I'm sure lots of people would envy the position you're in, so it doesn't sound like such a big deal to me, all things considered.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by asif007)
You haven't failed an exam until you get confirmation in your hand that says failure and what the repercussions are, so don't get ahead of yourself. I see it on TSR all the time - medical students are premature anticipators of failure when in fact it turns out they pass and had nothing to worry about all along. Somebody mentioned already that the SJT isn't linked to your medical school performance (I didn't know that), so you can still graduate and become a doctor even if you do fail it. As in, no negative consequences at all. I think that's something to be grateful for. It could be much worse - you haven't failed any of the high-stakes medical school exams in which failure leads to resits, dropping down a year or being kicked out. So what if you get a job in the middle of nowhere, in an area you don't like? Be grateful that you have a job to walk into in the first place, considering how many people are on furlough or have been made redundant during this pandemic. In that respect, doctors are actually very lucky to be able to continue working - but medical students are even more lucky because your exams have been predominantly online and you have the privilege of a job waiting for you at the end. All you have to do is fill out the paperwork. I'm sure lots of people would envy the position you're in, so it doesn't sound like such a big deal to me, all things considered.
My worry was that I would fail and would potentially have to resit year 5 and do the SJT again. I get what you mean though, I probably didn't fail but doubt I did well.
Getting a job in the middle of no-where would be horrible for me. I struggled through 5 years of being away from my home city and I really don't want to have to do it again. I'm grateful to have a job of course, I didn't say I'm not. I just know I would struggle a lot being in the middle of nowhere.
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ja1
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I did my SJT today (for 5th year medical students), and I'm pretty sure I failed it. I read the GMC good medical practice and did the practice questions but felt the exam this year was a lot different with the new rating questions and the new way of ranking options.

Anyone know how low you have to get to not be able to gradate? I applied for all London deaneries and I'm 100% sure I'm not gonna make it into them even tho my EPM was good
the failure rate I have been told is 0.5% each year. most of those failures will be those who ran out of time or randomly didn't do a section, something like that. the vast majority of those who take SJT score close to the average. SJT score nothing to do with graduation
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asif007
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(Original post by Anonymous)
My worry was that I would fail and would potentially have to resit year 5 and do the SJT again. I get what you mean though, I probably didn't fail but doubt I did well.
Getting a job in the middle of no-where would be horrible for me. I struggled through 5 years of being away from my home city and I really don't want to have to do it again. I'm grateful to have a job of course, I didn't say I'm not. I just know I would struggle a lot being in the middle of nowhere.
Forgive me for saying, but I don't really have a lot of sympathy for struggles with living away from home. Let's put your situation in context: you're still studying in the UK, you speak the national language, you're integrated with the community and other medical students, you're able to easily travel home within the same country if you want. I'm contrasting you with people I know who have moved halfway around the world, leaving families and young children behind, to study in countries where they don't speak the language. And now all their studies are online but they are still unable to travel home because of flight suspensions/border closures and it's prohibitively expensive. I myself used to study in a place I grew to absolutely despise, I cut a lot of people out of my life and isolated myself when they were nowhere to be seen while I needed some support. Then I moved somewhere even less lively, even further away from home, just so I could study what I want to. As the saying goes, you go where the work is.

You're in a very privileged position to be studying Medicine which is so competitive in the UK. Now you're applying for a national allocation process to be a junior doctor, you have to be prepared to travel somewhere you might not like. It's a demand of the job - at some point you will have to train in hospitals that are far away from home, maybe not well supported etc. If you choose to specialise in internal medicine or surgery, even more moving around. You might end up somewhere that's too far to commute from home every day. If these are things you will struggle with, I wonder what it really is that's stopping you from being able to cope with living away from home?
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MedStudentt
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(Original post by asif007)
Forgive me for saying, but I don't really have a lot of sympathy for struggles with living away from home. Let's put your situation in context: you're still studying in the UK, you speak the national language, you're integrated with the community and other medical students, you're able to easily travel home within the same country if you want. I'm contrasting you with people I know who have moved halfway around the world, leaving families and young children behind, to study in countries where they don't speak the language. And now all their studies are online but they are still unable to travel home because of flight suspensions/border closures and it's prohibitively expensive. I myself used to study in a place I grew to absolutely despise, I cut a lot of people out of my life and isolated myself when they were nowhere to be seen while I needed some support. Then I moved somewhere even less lively, even further away from home, just so I could study what I want to. As the saying goes, you go where the work is.

You're in a very privileged position to be studying Medicine which is so competitive in the UK. Now you're applying for a national allocation process to be a junior doctor, you have to be prepared to travel somewhere you might not like. It's a demand of the job - at some point you will have to train in hospitals that are far away from home, maybe not well supported etc. If you choose to specialise in internal medicine or surgery, even more moving around. You might end up somewhere that's too far to commute from home every day. If these are things you will struggle with, I wonder what it really is that's stopping you from being able to cope with living away from home?
This doesn’t really negate OPs concerns especially since they’ve acknowledged their privilege.

Many people who may be considered to be privileged have struggles and suffer from mental health problems - does this mean their struggles are unimportant and should not be acknowledged?
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asif007
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(Original post by MedStudentt)
This doesn’t really negate OPs concerns especially since they’ve acknowledged their privilege.

Many people who may be considered to be privileged have struggles and suffer from mental health problems - does this mean their struggles are unimportant and should not be acknowledged?
OP has mentioned nothing about mental health struggles. Hence why I said I wonder what it is that's really stopping them from being able to cope with living away from home. If it's mental health or family problems/bereavements then that's fair enough and I will respond accordingly. Some more context from OP would be helpful.
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Anonymous #2
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I have some first hand experience of this. Many of the reasons stated above may be true but not for everyone. My advice is to wait though. If you don't hear anything by February you are safe. If the dreaded happens, come back and post and I can talk you through my journey.
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Anonymous #3
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I have some first hand experience of this. Many of the reasons stated above may be true but not for everyone. My advice is to wait though. If you don't hear anything by February you are safe. If the dreaded happens, come back and post and I can talk you through my journey.
Hi as someone whos failed sjt and redoing enf of jan any advice now? Its been a though weird time so
Just about everything around it all
Thanks lots
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Hi as someone whos failed sjt and redoing enf of jan any advice now? Its been a though weird time so
Just about everything around it all
Thanks lots
How do you know you failed? Have you already been contacted?
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Anonymous #4
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(Original post by asif007)
OP has mentioned nothing about mental health struggles. Hence why I said I wonder what it is that's really stopping them from being able to cope with living away from home. If it's mental health or family problems/bereavements then that's fair enough and I will respond accordingly. Some more context from OP would be helpful.
I would rate this response as very inappropriate.

Seriously though, this is what is wrong with the SJT. Saying you would do the right thing, doesn't mean someone would actually do it in practice.
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Anonymous #2
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Hi as someone whos failed sjt and redoing enf of jan any advice now? Its been a though weird time so
Just about everything around it all
Thanks lots
I'm in the same boat. I'm re-doing it this application round. I've just been studying like mad, last time I was under the impression that it was a common sense exam, but I don't think it's true that it is impossible to revise for. I did very little revision - a course then looked at the past papers one time. Did you ask for your score and breakdown to see if you cold determine the reason of your score ? It was good for reflection and acceptance. I think understanding the roles of your team and MDTs at large goes a long way. Did you get any exposure on the wards since failing? Do you mark all your questions to determine your progress ?

What went wrong for you in the review.

For OP, guidance is on the UKFPO now it says exceptionally low scoring candidates will be informed by the 18th of February.
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asif007
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I would rate this response as very inappropriate.

Seriously though, this is what is wrong with the SJT. Saying you would do the right thing, doesn't mean someone would actually do it in practice.
There should be a question on the SJT about backbiting from medical students.

How do you deal with haters who hide behind Anonymous and don't own up to their comments? The correct answer is tell them to mind their business.

So mind your own.
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hejsanhoppsan
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Does anyone know if foundation programme is oversubscribed this year? /someone who did SJT and feels terrible about it...
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