No confidence in Keir Starmer

Watch
imlikeahermit
Badges: 13
Rep:
?
#41
Report 1 month ago
#41
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Literally can't think of anything good labour have done particularly in the last forty years. Inb4 NHS - that was devised by a liberal politician and supported by the Tories at the time.

Please tell me what labour has done and I'm sure I will find that this has had damaging long term implications to society and see ultimately driven by a cynical will to power. Case in point education:

Labour had the ridiculous idea that 50% of people should go to university. This has led to the devaluation of degrees, tuition fees, useless degrees and substandard universities. But a nice student vote goes to labour now every year.

Grammar schools - they gave bright poor students the chance at A quality education but were destroyed by labour who will still send their kids private or to elite "comprehensive" schools with a tiny catchment area. Predictably social mobility has decreased now thanks to the cult of labour equalism. Luckily most comp teachers are die hard labour supporters too which labour looks after no matter how bad they are.
Despite your Brexit views. This is the best post I’ve read on this forum this year. Absolutely spot on, especially regarding grammar schools.
1
reply
Rakas21
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#42
Report 1 month ago
#42
They were solid on foreign policy to be fair albeit I'm one of the rare people who supports our holidays in the middle East.
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#43
Report 1 month ago
#43
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Despite your Brexit views. This is the best post I’ve read on this forum this year. Absolutely spot on, especially regarding grammar schools.
Thanks 👍 My Brexit views are also much more nuanced than most brexiteers. I'd be relaxed about us staying in the EU if say Salvini was in charge (and then all the pro eu types will turn into brexiteers overnight)

Peter Hitchens really opened my eyes to the complete mess of the education system in iirc The Cameron Delusion.
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#44
Report 1 month ago
#44
(Original post by Rakas21)
They were solid on foreign policy to be fair albeit I'm one of the rare people who supports our holidays in the middle East.
-endless dessert wars with the Taliban so that girls can learn to read and the CIA can sell heroin
-Turning Iraq into a client state of Iran
-The rise of Isis
-funding Al Qaida to try and topple Assad
-Killing Gadaffi leading to a huge influx of refugees
-The UN and US/UK discredited internationally
-Retaliatory terrorist attacks
-Billions wasted and thousands dead and millions more lives ruined.
- etc etc

"Solid"

Good God man listen to some John Mearsheimer and educate yourself

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ESwIVY2oimI&t=2s
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 1 month ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#45
Report 1 month ago
#45
Unless you are a defence contractor or just simply enjoy war like John Bolton there is no objective benefit to neoconservative foreign policy it's about as discredited as the USSR perhaps even more so.

(Just to be clear I'm not a pacifist but not liberal interventionism which is tied to liberal utopianism and something that true conservatives should run away from)
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 1 month ago
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#46
Report 1 month ago
#46
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Thanks 👍 My Brexit views are also much more nuanced than most brexiteers. I'd be relaxed about us staying in the EU if say Salvini was in charge (and then all the pro eu types will turn into brexiteers overnight)

Peter Hitchens really opened my eyes to the complete mess of the education system in iirc The Cameron Delusion.
Your brexit views have nothing to do with this topic, I don't understand why hermit said that. Its perfectly fine to agree with a person on one subject you vehemently disagree with on another.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#47
Report 1 month ago
#47
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Literally can't think of anything good labour have done particularly in the last forty years. Inb4 NHS - that was devised by a liberal politician and supported by the Tories at the time.

Please tell me what labour has done and I'm sure I will find that this has had damaging long term implications to society and see ultimately driven by a cynical will to power. Case in point education:

Labour had the ridiculous idea that 50% of people should go to university. This has led to the devaluation of degrees, tuition fees, useless degrees and substandard universities. But a nice student vote goes to labour now every year.

Grammar schools - they gave bright poor students the chance at A quality education but were destroyed by labour who will still send their kids private or to elite "comprehensive" schools with a tiny catchment area. Predictably social mobility has decreased now thanks to the cult of labour equalism. Luckily most comp teachers are die hard labour supporters too which labour looks after no matter how bad they are.
Ok well the last 40 years will be much much harder to as labour effectively and openly copied conservative polices during this period. Which is why most of our "middle ground" polices you speak of did long term harm, copying the Tories is only ever going to do long term harm.

I find it hard to defend Blairs stupid idea to devalue degrees and laden students with debt, a great idea... not! The tories love it like, a decade of Tory rule and it's just got worse something they can build on and treasure to do damage and blame us for the consequence. The grammar schools, i see that as part of a bigger picture, the failing of Thatcher's National curriculum, the biggest failure in this sector. Funny the only thing she placed regulation on was poor peoples education.... mmm I wonder.

However while the temmors of a state controlled health service proceeded the Labour party, this is where your story stops. This is another "labour closed more mines than Thatcher" type of pseudo point, as soon as you investigate the topic more clearer all is not as it seems. Churchill’s original Conservative Party voted against the NHS’ creation twenty-two times is the reality of it, even calling EB a "squalid nuisance”, such a lovely bloke and party.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#48
Report 1 month ago
#48
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Ok well the last 40 years will be much much harder to as labour effectively and openly copied conservative polices during this period. Which is why most of our "middle ground" polices you speak of did long term harm, copying the Tories is only ever going to do long term harm.

I find it hard to defend Blairs stupid idea to devalue degrees and laden students with debt, a great idea... not! The tories love it like, a decade of Tory rule and it's just got worse something they can build on and treasure to do damage and blame us for the consequence. The grammar schools, i see that as part of a bigger picture, the failing of Thatcher's National curriculum, the biggest failure in this sector. Funny the only thing she placed regulation on was poor peoples education.... mmm I wonder.

However while the temmors of a state controlled health service proceeded the Labour party, this is where your story stops. This is another "labour closed more mines than Thatcher" type of pseudo point, as soon as you investigate the topic more clearer all is not as it seems. Churchill’s original Conservative Party voted against the NHS’ creation twenty-two times is the reality of it, even calling EB a "squalid nuisance”, such a lovely bloke and party.
Blair's government was far more radical (in a bad way) on social and domestic policy than most people realise. Even their economic agenda was more revolutionary than people imagine. Cameron's "Tories" then uncriticalyly accepted much of this.

This is how it works - labour make radical costly harmful societsl changes and liberal "conservative" governments then come and try and make them workable - Thatcher was the only one who tried to actually change things.

It was in their 1945 manifesto to bring in the nhs and the white paper advocating it was written by a Tory.

Again you haven't told me why I should be greatful for the Labour party
0
reply
DSilva
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#49
Report 1 month ago
#49
Latest poll has the Tories 5 points ahead.

Mr Keir 'electable' Starmer strikes again.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#50
Report 1 month ago
#50
(Original post by DSilva)
Latest poll has the Tories 5 points ahead.

Mr Keir 'electable' Starmer strikes again.
We are our own worst enemy, as I said electing a london centric suit so interlinked with the failing of the last Labour opposition is not going to strike home. Have I been proved wrong?

We needed a pro small town, pro working class, pro British leader. I voted for Lisa Nandy, unfortunately our party is still in denial of reality. It's such a shame Corbyn didn't grow a backbone and support brexit and dragged his party into dropping the unpopular lib dem style indenity politics. Then focus on tackling real inequality, real inequality is only every about wealth, money buys opportunity then we may of had a hope.... however then theres the SNP which needs putting to bed. He had the policy he had the passion and the public was/is desperate for change.

The UK does not want Tony Blair mk2, hell if Tony Blair stood again they don't want him either.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
0
reply
DSilva
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#51
Report 1 month ago
#51
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
We are our own worst enemy, as I said electing a london centric suit so interlinked with the failing of the last Labour opposition is not going to strike home. Have I been proved wrong?

We needed a pro small town, pro working class, pro British leader. I voted for Lisa Nandy, unfortunately our party is still in denial of reality. It's such a shame Corbyn didn't grow a backbone and support brexit and dragged his party into dropping the unpopular lib dem style indenity politics. Then focus on tackling real inequality, real inequality is only every about wealth, money buys opportunity then we may of had a hope.... however then theres the SNP which needs putting to bed. He had the policy he had the passion and the public was/is desperate for change.

The UK does not want Tony Blair mk2, hell if Tony Blair stood again they don't want him either.
He doesn't even have Blair's charisma or charm either.

Maybe the public will, after 14 years of the Tories, decide to give Starmer a go. But i just can't see it.

He has a complete personality vacuum.
0
reply
Burton Bridge
Badges: 14
Rep:
?
#52
Report 1 month ago
#52
(Original post by DSilva)
He doesn't even have Blair's charisma or charm either.

Maybe the public will, after 14 years of the Tories, decide to give Starmer a go. But i just can't see it.

He has a complete personality vacuum.
Oh I think that's harsh, it's just what he does have is sucked out of him by his lack luster passion for anything .... what does he believe in?


People can see when someone is faking it, that was Corbyn's problem with brexit... and May's to a degree
0
reply
Rakas21
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#53
Report 1 month ago
#53
Starmer believes in law and its power to improve lives, just a London liberal type set of laws.

Tories do seem to be getting a vaccine bounce.
0
reply
DSilva
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#54
Report 1 month ago
#54
(Original post by Rakas21)
Starmer believes in law and its power to improve lives, just a London liberal type set of laws.

Tories do seem to be getting a vaccine bounce.
What's your honest assessment of how Starmer has done? Am I overreacting thinking he's dull, a fence sitter, uninspiring and will lose?

Aside from Lib Dens, I just don't get who he appeals to.
Last edited by DSilva; 1 month ago
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#55
Report 1 month ago
#55
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
We needed a pro small town, pro working class, pro British leader. I voted for Lisa Nandy, unfortunately our party is still in denial of reality.
True but I don't think Nandy has the Chops for it either, and in any case the membership is far too radical to elect someone like her. The only proven way for Labour to win is by promising to be tougher on immigration than the tories and actually meaning it (not like ed miliband). This has worked in Denmark and NZ which are the only places where the centre left isn't dying, (I Think the US democrats are Blairite rather than centre left)


It's such a shame Corbyn didn't grow a backbone and support brexit and dragged his party into dropping the unpopular lib dem style indenity politics. Then focus on tackling real inequality, real inequality is only every about wealth, money buys opportunity then we may of had a hope.....
After Reading Left Out I've grown more sympathetic to Corbyn (even though I despise most of his politics) - The sheer opposition he had against him not only from the outside but from within all institutional levels of the party opperatus who would use every dirty trick conceivable to screw him over really made it an impossible job.

Supporting Brexit as leader of the labour party at that time would have been a death note simple as- the party would simply not have allowed it. Many of Corbyns key advisers did do a herculean task of doing their best to move labour towards brexit against the Blairitie establishment which after 2017 effectivley manged to completely take over Corbyn and turned him into a politican.

I would argue that the current labour base (and certainly the politicians and party employees) are far more concerned with addressing 'white priviliege' and LGBT issues than actual economic inequality.
0
reply
DSilva
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#56
Report 1 month ago
#56
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Oh I think that's harsh, it's just what he does have is sucked out of him by his lack luster passion for anything .... what does he believe in?


People can see when someone is faking it, that was Corbyn's problem with brexit... and May's to a degree
I just don't think he's particularly passionate about anything. There's no fire in his belly, no sense of what gets him up in the morning. Just bland managerial centrist nothing.
0
reply
Starship Trooper
Badges: 11
Rep:
?
#57
Report 1 month ago
#57
(Original post by DSilva)
I just don't think he's particularly passionate about anything. There's no fire in his belly, no sense of what gets him up in the morning. Just bland managerial centrist nothing.
I think he does genuinely hate socially conservative people and is actually passionate about social liberalism.

Also I think he genuinely wanted Corbyn kicked out and was/ is annoyed he's been thwarted as a big plank of his platform is making Jews 'feel safe' in the party again.

He has got views it's just on things that most of the country either doesn't care about or actively dislikes.
0
reply
Rakas21
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#58
Report 1 month ago
#58
(Original post by DSilva)
What's your honest assessment of how Starmer has done? Am I overreacting thinking he's dull, a fence sitter, uninspiring and will lose?

Aside from Lib Dens, I just don't get who he appeals to.
Well he's basically Miliband in a better suit and with more pedigree but that's how I always thought of him, he was never going to inspire people in the way Corbyn did among the left but they obviously thought that the trade off for potential power was acceptable.

He's not doing much wrong per say but rather he's not quite taking some of the opportunities, his approval even if comparable to Boris is also much lower than I expected (he is highly vulnerable to a new Tory leader if they get the benefit of the doubt as per Boris and May early on).

Right now I suspect he'd lose (possibly Boris would struggle to retain his majority though) but then statistically I have never believed Starmer can get a swing higher than Cameron/Thatcher which is what is required. The best he has always been able to do is get close enough to betray the union to the SNP in return for power.
0
reply
DSilva
Badges: 12
Rep:
?
#59
Report 1 month ago
#59
(Original post by Rakas21)
Well he's basically Miliband in a better suit and with more pedigree but that's how I always thought of him, he was never going to inspire people in the way Corbyn did among the left but they obviously thought that the trade off for potential power was acceptable.

He's not doing much wrong per say but rather he's not quite taking some of the opportunities, his approval even if comparable to Boris is also much lower than I expected (he is highly vulnerable to a new Tory leader if they get the benefit of the doubt as per Boris and May early on).

Right now I suspect he'd lose (possibly Boris would struggle to retain his majority though) but then statistically I have never believed Starmer can get a swing higher than Cameron/Thatcher which is what is required. The best he has always been able to do is get close enough to betray the union to the SNP in return for power.
Miliband now actually has a sense of humour and charm that escapes Starmer. He's arguably Labour's best communicator.

A few months ago Miliband humiliated Johnson in the Commons over the UKIM Bill. He really made Johnson look small and clueless, and was funny in the process.

While Starmer makes good points, he never really makes Johnson look small.

For the first time in my life I am really considering not voting Labour at the next election.
0
reply
Rakas21
Badges: 21
Rep:
?
#60
Report 1 month ago
#60
(Original post by DSilva)
Miliband now actually has a sense of humour and charm that escapes Starmer. He's arguably Labour's best communicator.

A few months ago Miliband humiliated Johnson in the Commons over the UKIM Bill. He really made Johnson look small and clueless, and was funny in the process.

While Starmer makes good points, he never really makes Johnson look small.

For the first time in my life I am really considering not voting Labour at the next election.
Miliband did alright considering Cameron's approval was above 40% (gained mostly equal vote share in a time of economic and employment growth). That was of course pre-Brexit though which realigned voter distribution in a way which has been very damaging to Labour due to their geographic concentration.
0
reply
X

Quick Reply

Attached files
Write a reply...
Reply
new posts
Back
to top
Latest
My Feed

See more of what you like on
The Student Room

You can personalise what you see on TSR. Tell us a little about yourself to get started.

Personalise

Which of these would you use to help with making uni decisions?

Webinars (62)
12.89%
Virtual campus tours/open days (112)
23.28%
Live streaming events (44)
9.15%
Online AMAs/guest lectures (46)
9.56%
A uni comparison tool (109)
22.66%
An in-person event when available (108)
22.45%

Watched Threads

View All