No confidence in Keir Starmer

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Burton Bridge
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#81
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#81
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Rather found like the comment section of the Mail than the Guardian
Because tribialisation is the way forward eh?

Remove the inner sheep and thick for your self.
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Burton Bridge
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#82
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#82
(Original post by Quiet Benin)
The UK needs Tony Blair mk2.
In reality we have him, BJ is just like blair in all ways bar Europe.

(Original post by Quiet Benin)
If labour wanted pro working class leader, then Lisa Nandy would have been chosen. She wasn't chosen because i feel personally she hasn't got charisma.
Agree and disagree she wasn't picked because she didn't look like a PM, the tories are still controlling us... to win we need a blair clone ... no we don't we need passion and good policy that benefits the majority which we believe in.

(Original post by Quiet Benin)
Starmer hasn't got charisma but looks like a Prime Minister and probably is Pro British than any other labour leader.
This pro British nonsense again... what do you even mean by it?


(Original post by Quiet Benin)
I have always said that most TSR members are born in the late 90s/early 00s and don't remember actually living in Blair's Britain.

It was a wonderful time. It all ended by 2008 because of the fianncical crash and Gordon Brown becoming more unpopular paving the way for the tories to be elected.
The problem on this forum is lack of life experience, many are simply too young and so polarised/easily led its untrue.

I think you are viewing new labour with rose coloured specs though, what is you issue with the current government as realistically they are pretty much new labour mk2 socially. Tony Blair has done so much more out if office than he ever did in office.
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Starship Trooper
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#83
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#83
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Because tribialisation is the way forward eh?

Remove the inner sheep and thick for your self.
Believe it or not I voted Corbyn in 2017 (and don't regret it) because I despised May so much
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Quiet Benin
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
In reality we have him, BJ is just like blair in all ways bar Europe.



Agree and disagree she wasn't picked because she didn't look like a PM, the tories are still controlling us... to win we need a blair clone ... no we don't we need passion and good policy that benefits the majority which we believe in.



This pro British nonsense again... what do you even mean by it?




The problem on this forum is lack of life experience, many are simply too young and so polarised/easily led its untrue.

I think you are viewing new labour with rose coloured specs though, what is you issue with the current government as realistically they are pretty much new labour mk2 socially. Tony Blair has done so much more out if office than he ever did in office.
Boris is 100% not like Tony Blair. He isn't a centrist!! and he has always had eurosceptic views even if he has flip flopped during the years. He is just some incoherent Populist who really shouldn't be in a job and was probably elected because many people see him as a Donald Trump wannabe.

This current government is not like New Labour so i don't really understand what you mean by that.
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Rakas21
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#85
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#85
(Original post by Quiet Benin)
Boris is 100% not like Tony Blair. He isn't a centrist!! and he has always had eurosceptic views even if he has flip flopped during the years. He is just some incoherent Populist who really shouldn't be in a job and was probably elected because many people see him as a Donald Trump wannabe.

This current government is not like New Labour so i don't really understand what you mean by that.
Blair was a populist, both just pander to groups.
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DSilva
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#86
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#86
(Original post by Rakas21)
Blair was a populist, both just pander to groups.
Blair was the opposite of a Populist.
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Rakas21
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#87
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#87
(Original post by DSilva)
Blair was the opposite of a Populist.
Blair is literally the greatest populist the UK has ever seen. The only difference is that the voter block he panders to was different.

That does not stop him being a populist.
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DSilva
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Rakas21)
Blair is literally the greatest populist the UK has ever seen. The only difference is that the voter block he panders to was different.

That does not stop him being a populist.
Blair was the architect of managerial, technocratic, incremental, centrist third way nothingness.

He's about as far from being populist as is possible to be.
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Rakas21
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#89
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#89
(Original post by DSilva)
Blair was the architect of managerial, technocratic, incremental, centrist third way nothingness.

He's about as far from being populist as is possible to be.
I think your allowing your dislike of populism this decade to smother the meaning of the word. Blair has always been widely accepted as a populist (at least until recently among the left it seems).

Populism is about pandering or nothingness as you call it. There are many ways to skin that cat (and actually even then Boris is arguably pretty centrist).
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Starship Trooper
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#90
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#90
(Original post by Rakas21)
I think your allowing your dislike of populism this decade to smother the meaning of the word. Blair has always been widely accepted as a populist (at least until recently among the left it seems).

Populism is about pandering or nothingness as you call it. There are many ways to skin that cat (and actually even then Boris is arguably pretty centrist).
Populism ~Noun- a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

"the question is whether he will tone down his fiery populism now that he has joined the political establishment"


Populism is a stance of standing for the'people' against a corrupt/ out of touch elite and this has been generally understood since Roman times. I don't think even pre 1997 that was ever what Blair was about although he did try and appeal to the common man* it was not by demonising the elite but by showing that he was a more competent and compassionate administrator, much like Macron, Trudeau and Clegg (at the height of popularity).

(*Blair was a highly educated socialist barrister. He wasn't out doing speeches at the coal mine or down in wetherspoons with the plebs but attending Davos or giving speeches at Goldman Sachs.)

Corbyn, Farage and to some extent Thatcher and Boris are much more obvious populists. That said British Populism is a lot more nuanced than most countries.
Last edited by Starship Trooper; 1 month ago
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DSilva
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Rakas21)
I think your allowing your dislike of populism this decade to smother the meaning of the word. Blair has always been widely accepted as a populist (at least until recently among the left it seems).

Populism is about pandering or nothingness as you call it. There are many ways to skin that cat (and actually even then Boris is arguably pretty centrist).
Populism is 'SHUT THE BORDERS', 'BUILD A WALL', 'DESTROY CAPITALISM'. It's about railing against supposed elites.

It isn't 'let's set up a bunch of Quangos, commissions and look into public-private partnerships.
Last edited by DSilva; 1 month ago
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DSilva
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Populism ~Noun- a political approach that strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

"the question is whether he will tone down his fiery populism now that he has joined the political establishment"


Populism is a stance of standing for the'people' against a corrupt/ out of touch elite and this has been generally understood since Roman times. I don't think even pre 1997 that was ever what Blair was about although he did try and appeal to the common man* it was not by demonising the elite but by showing that he was a more competent and compassionate administrator, much like Macron, Trudeau and Clegg (at the height of popularity).

(*Blair was a highly educated socialist barrister. He wasn't out doing speeches at the coal mine or down in wetherspoons with the plebs but attending Davos or giving speeches at Goldman Sachs.)

Corbyn, Farage and to some extent Thatcher and Boris are much more obvious populists. That said British Populism is a lot more nuanced than most countries.
Agree with all except the description of Blair as a socialist haha. Maybe when he was a student, but in politics he was always pretty economically centrist/centre right and socially liberal.
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Starship Trooper
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#93
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#93
(Original post by DSilva)
Agree with all except the description of Blair as a socialist haha. Maybe when he was a student, but in politics he was always pretty economically centrist/centre right and socially liberal.
Yeah that's what I meant although he did become an MP under Michael Foot.
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DSilva
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#94
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#94
So Labour are down in the polls, people say they stand for nothing and Starmer's big idea to fix this is... to wrap himself in more Union Jack flags.

Genius.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-leak-reveals
Last edited by DSilva; 4 weeks ago
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Starship Trooper
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#95
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#95
(Original post by DSilva)
So Labour are down in the polls, people say they stand for nothing and Starmer's big idea to fix this is... to wrap himself in more Union Jack flags.

Genius.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...t-leak-reveals
Name:  Screenshot_2021-02-02-22-44-26-12_e4424258c8b8649f6e67d283a50a2cbc.jpg
Views: 5
Size:  103.6 KB

Following in the footsteps of political visionary Ed Miliband I see.
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Starship Trooper
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#96
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#96
The only way labour could win is if they Elected Ed Balls as leader and went hard after immigration talking about how it lowers wages and apologises for mass immigration and endorse Brexit.

Which would be impossible, equivalent to the Tories embracing Karl Marx. And even then it's a long shot.
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DSilva
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#97
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#97
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Name:  Screenshot_2021-02-02-22-44-26-12_e4424258c8b8649f6e67d283a50a2cbc.jpg
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Following in the footsteps of political visionary Ed Miliband I see.
It just seems a bit of a gimmick. A bit like a headteacher putting on a beanie hat to show students he's 'one of them'. Labour should be focusing on having genuine policies which seek to address the country's issues.

I have nothing against the Union flag but if Labour think the path to victory lies in wrapping themselves in more and more flags they are more naive than anyone thought.
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Rakas21
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#98
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#98
I think the wider point is more that it's a focus on patriotism, defense and the like.

It's a nice notion and I like it but the problem is the sheer number of party members and MP's who don't believe it.

I don't view it as credible but I'm honestly not sure what could make me trust Labour after the Corbyn years. Perhaps a clear commitment to make the SNP persona non Grata even if it costs Labour power and if we are honest, a leader that did not serve Corbyn post 2016.
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DSilva
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#99
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#99
(Original post by Rakas21)
I think the wider point is more that it's a focus on patriotism, defense and the like.

It's a nice notion and I like it but the problem is the sheer number of party members and MP's who don't believe it.

I don't view it as credible but I'm honestly not sure what could make me trust Labour after the Corbyn years. Perhaps a clear commitment to make the SNP persona non Grata even if it costs Labour power and if we are honest, a leader that did not serve Corbyn post 2016.
In other words the Labour Party becoming absolutely indistinguishable from the Tories on every issue.

If that's what you want, Starmer is already well on his way to winning your vote.
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imlikeahermit
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#100
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#100
(Original post by DSilva)
In other words the Labour Party becoming absolutely indistinguishable from the Tories on every issue.

If that's what you want, Starmer is already well on his way to winning your vote.
Given that the ‘Tories’ are currently squatting in the centre ground that actually seems like the most logical thing to do. Corbyn left wing barnpotism was totally rejected in the general election by anyone who pays taxes, so why on earth would Labour keep banging the same drum.

Get rid of identity politics, get rid of the ********, get rid of the wokeism, get rid of the tokenism, get rid of the pandering, I would say get rid of Diane Abbott but she’s the best recruitment tool for the Tories so keep her about; that is what Labour need to do to get their voters back.

Our country has moved significantly right, you cannot expect a left wing party to win a majority.
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