No confidence in Keir Starmer
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Even though I created this topic to try and be positive about the new direction of Labour, the last few weeks have given me great concern.
I think one of the biggest issues is how bland the whole party is. I'm not saying politics should be all about the character, but this plays a big role in getting elected. Keir Stramer is obviously quite bland, he really needs a John Prescot type figure to compliment him at his side but instead, we have Angela Rayner who seem to never hear from. Anneliese Dodds seems a strange choice of chancellor. I haven't been very impressed; all a bit wishy-washy and unforgettable from what I've heard so far, and she seems pretty nervous when being interviewed doesn't fill me with confidence. She just seems to read of some auto-cue line for line, and that's about it. Very dull, the whole operation. There going up against Boris whos a massive character and Rishi who compliments him well (whether you like their politics or not is another story).
One minute they oppose the cooperation tax rise, next minute they agree. The whole message is a little confusing. As someone whos runs a business, will there flip-flopping doesn't give me much confidence.
Their whole operation seems to be if the tories say open the schools on Monday, they want schools open a week earlier. If you open the schools, they will just say it was done too early. Don't they realise there making themselves look really stupid at the moment?
I think one of the biggest issues is how bland the whole party is. I'm not saying politics should be all about the character, but this plays a big role in getting elected. Keir Stramer is obviously quite bland, he really needs a John Prescot type figure to compliment him at his side but instead, we have Angela Rayner who seem to never hear from. Anneliese Dodds seems a strange choice of chancellor. I haven't been very impressed; all a bit wishy-washy and unforgettable from what I've heard so far, and she seems pretty nervous when being interviewed doesn't fill me with confidence. She just seems to read of some auto-cue line for line, and that's about it. Very dull, the whole operation. There going up against Boris whos a massive character and Rishi who compliments him well (whether you like their politics or not is another story).
One minute they oppose the cooperation tax rise, next minute they agree. The whole message is a little confusing. As someone whos runs a business, will there flip-flopping doesn't give me much confidence.
Their whole operation seems to be if the tories say open the schools on Monday, they want schools open a week earlier. If you open the schools, they will just say it was done too early. Don't they realise there making themselves look really stupid at the moment?
Original post by Burton Bridge
2017 wasn't a fluke, it was a result if people wanting change, democratic socialist beliefs wasn't rejected in 2019, our parties nonsensical Brexit policy was. So I would challenge the point where you say there is no major market for democratic socialism.
On the face of it compromise is starting to become a dirty word, we can learn alot from looking towards America in how not to become totally polarised and tunnel visioned. I think its important Labour left (and liberal right) compromise to create a new vision, but we already did that in the Miliband years, just Miliband and Balls wasn't able to communicate the great work they did.
Ultimately our issue is Scotland, Miliband tried to tackle this with the 3 pound membership offering but it failed spectacularly, KS isnt the man,he part of the problem. The problem is Corbyn threw away a golden ticket to bury the Tories, May should have been the end of the Conservative party but unfortunately we picked (I didn't) the man who helped write the poicy6that buried us.
Another problem is we are REALLY poor at explaining what we would do differently to the Tories, we come across as tory bad or not done enough we do good or more. I agree we should stop abstaining, we should tell people why we will make people better, we should end the indentity divisive political nonsense and start listening to our core working class voters again, Corbyn did in 2017, that's why he did well, at that point he should have held the tories feet to the fire in weak government, supported brexit as he promised and concentrated on three things;
1) explaining why democratic socialism is beneficial and explaining why it will lift almost everyone.
2) explaining why you can criticise a counties actions and no be anti semitic or accept the MRHA version ... pick one and do it.
3) put effort into winning Scotland back
The third maybe the most difficult of all, but possible.
Regards KS, he has less chance than Cornyn of winning a majority government. People dont want the status quo
On the face of it compromise is starting to become a dirty word, we can learn alot from looking towards America in how not to become totally polarised and tunnel visioned. I think its important Labour left (and liberal right) compromise to create a new vision, but we already did that in the Miliband years, just Miliband and Balls wasn't able to communicate the great work they did.
Ultimately our issue is Scotland, Miliband tried to tackle this with the 3 pound membership offering but it failed spectacularly, KS isnt the man,he part of the problem. The problem is Corbyn threw away a golden ticket to bury the Tories, May should have been the end of the Conservative party but unfortunately we picked (I didn't) the man who helped write the poicy6that buried us.
Another problem is we are REALLY poor at explaining what we would do differently to the Tories, we come across as tory bad or not done enough we do good or more. I agree we should stop abstaining, we should tell people why we will make people better, we should end the indentity divisive political nonsense and start listening to our core working class voters again, Corbyn did in 2017, that's why he did well, at that point he should have held the tories feet to the fire in weak government, supported brexit as he promised and concentrated on three things;
1) explaining why democratic socialism is beneficial and explaining why it will lift almost everyone.
2) explaining why you can criticise a counties actions and no be anti semitic or accept the MRHA version ... pick one and do it.
3) put effort into winning Scotland back
The third maybe the most difficult of all, but possible.
Regards KS, he has less chance than Cornyn of winning a majority government. People dont want the status quo
Brexit was a contributing factor but according to polls, Corbyn was the primary reason people moved from Labour to Conservative. He was unpopular and unlikable and many rejected his far left policy. Many Corbyn supporters continue to blame Brexit for their biggest loss since 1920's but that simply isn't the case. Never tell yourself comfiting lies to make yourself feel better, you soon believe it to be the truth.
Starmer on the other hand is more reasonable. He's far more likable than Corbyn and is more centrist on policy which will appeal to a much wider audience. Remember, you not only need to get every seat you lost back but even more to get the majority. Most people on the far left despise Tories and even if Labour isn't far left on policy, they will vote for them either way.
Starmer is your best chance, he has a lot of ground to make up and it will be difficult. Despite covid difficulties, track and trace failure and a mediocre overdue Brexit deal, Boris has done reasonably well in polls and it will shoot up once he takes us out of lockdown. The general election is far way off, it really depends if they see conservatives as the ones who wasted billions, left over 100,000 dead with a sloppy Brexit or the party who bought us out of the pandemic and had one of the greatest vaccine rollouts across the world.
Original post by CallumTW9
Many Corbyn supporters continue to blame Brexit for their biggest loss since 1920's but that simply isn't the case. Never tell yourself comfiting lies to make yourself feel better, you soon believe it to be the truth.
Many Corbyn supporters continue to blame Brexit for their biggest loss since 1920's but that simply isn't the case. Never tell yourself comfiting lies to make yourself feel better, you soon believe it to be the truth.
lol
I stopped reading at that, quite funny how ignorantly you wrote that like you know exactly what former Labour voters was thinking when they cast their vote 
Look i know the sheeple state about keeping CeNtEr (*cough* right) to wIn PoWeR (*cough BS). I also know that people who are right wing policy supporters who are never EVER going to vote Labour are desperate to push this nonsense.
If the case actually is that Starmer is our best shot, if the case actually is that democratic socialism was rejected in dec 2019 and If the case actually is that left wing voters will vote Labour anyway out of hatred of Tories (even though the tories seem more left than Labour recently under starmer) then explain this;
1) i) why is it that starmer is making no connection with the BP?
ii) why is it that the general opinion the BP have made about KS is one of a dishonest politico who is more of the same?
iii) why is it that despite mega incompetence by the current government, the polls are less kind to KS than they was to Corbyn and still the BP prefer an incompetent Tory Government to a KS led Labour one?
2) i) why did Labour gain so much ground in 2017 under a democratic socialist manifesto?
ii) why did our heartlands of Scotland disapear to a party that is further left than Labour?
iii) why is the Conservative government currently copying labours political direction?
3) well if lefties like me wil vote Labour anyway, why did Labour lose their heartland, twice?
It was ignorance like this that has been a major contributor to our demise, Labour must stop taking people like me for granted because we will leave.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by DSilva
If Starmer had been a Tory plant, I don't think he'd have done much differently.
The most unispring leader of the opposition.
The most unispring leader of the opposition.
But moving Far left or even marxist territory isn't the answer.
Starmer wants patriot voters in the next election and i think this is why he is doing this.
Although i wish We had a Moderate Leader that has Blair and Brown's Charisma. Starmer's uninspiring leadership is fine but i saw Ed Miliband's speech this morning and my God he has improved, i now wish Miliband, who was the worst labour leader ever, is now Leader again. That's how bad it has become.
Original post by Quiet Benin
Brown's Charisma.
Brown's Charisma.
Now there's an oxymoron
Original post by Quiet Benin
But moving Far left or even marxist territory isn't the answer.
Starmer wants patriot voters in the next election and i think this is why he is doing this.
Although i wish We had a Moderate Leader that has Blair and Brown's Charisma. Starmer's uninspiring leadership is fine but i saw Ed Miliband's speech this morning and my God he has improved, i now wish Miliband, who was the worst labour leader ever, is now Leader again. That's how bad it has become.
Starmer wants patriot voters in the next election and i think this is why he is doing this.
Although i wish We had a Moderate Leader that has Blair and Brown's Charisma. Starmer's uninspiring leadership is fine but i saw Ed Miliband's speech this morning and my God he has improved, i now wish Miliband, who was the worst labour leader ever, is now Leader again. That's how bad it has become.
He doesn't oppose the government on anything. He sits on the fence on everything.
He has absolutely no charisma.
Original post by Quiet Benin
But moving Far left or even marxist territory isn't the answer.
Starmer wants patriot voters in the next election and i think this is why he is doing this.
Although i wish We had a Moderate Leader that has Blair and Brown's Charisma. Starmer's uninspiring leadership is fine but i saw Ed Miliband's speech this morning and my God he has improved, i now wish Miliband, who was the worst labour leader ever, is now Leader again. That's how bad it has become.
Starmer wants patriot voters in the next election and i think this is why he is doing this.
Although i wish We had a Moderate Leader that has Blair and Brown's Charisma. Starmer's uninspiring leadership is fine but i saw Ed Miliband's speech this morning and my God he has improved, i now wish Miliband, who was the worst labour leader ever, is now Leader again. That's how bad it has become.
Are you actually serious with any of that or are you fishing? Do you have any idea what "far left" is? And as for Miliband being our worst leader *cough Kinocks*
I really really want to support Starmer but he's either a moron or he's controlled opposition.
I disagree with him on nearly everything and he's just coming across as a red tory.
He was more interested in holding Nicola Sturgeon to account for something she *might* have done (which tbf is the right thing) than Priti Patel or Matt Hancock. And his handling of Liverpool has been insane. Idk the ins and outs of the mayoral race but us scousers weren't given a clear reason why the mayoral race was interfered with, and now he's backing the govt having parts of the council.
I can't stand Joe and his lot and there's deffo curroption in the council, but handing it to be dealt by the most curropt people in the country, who have an insanely bad history with scousers is insane for a labour leader to do. Really feels as tho he's trying to lose his safest seats (all 5 UK safest seats in 2019 were in Liverpool and all Labour) which is a gamble that own't pay off imo. He's not gaining ground with anyone really so I wouldn't be shocked if he lost harder than Corbyn. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and he does the right things for my city and the country and wins the election.
I disagree with him on nearly everything and he's just coming across as a red tory.
He was more interested in holding Nicola Sturgeon to account for something she *might* have done (which tbf is the right thing) than Priti Patel or Matt Hancock. And his handling of Liverpool has been insane. Idk the ins and outs of the mayoral race but us scousers weren't given a clear reason why the mayoral race was interfered with, and now he's backing the govt having parts of the council.
I can't stand Joe and his lot and there's deffo curroption in the council, but handing it to be dealt by the most curropt people in the country, who have an insanely bad history with scousers is insane for a labour leader to do. Really feels as tho he's trying to lose his safest seats (all 5 UK safest seats in 2019 were in Liverpool and all Labour) which is a gamble that own't pay off imo. He's not gaining ground with anyone really so I wouldn't be shocked if he lost harder than Corbyn. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and he does the right things for my city and the country and wins the election.
Original post by Yukikobestgirl
I really really want to support Starmer but he's either a moron or he's controlled opposition.
I disagree with him on nearly everything and he's just coming across as a red tory.
He was more interested in holding Nicola Sturgeon to account for something she *might* have done (which tbf is the right thing) than Priti Patel or Matt Hancock. And his handling of Liverpool has been insane. Idk the ins and outs of the mayoral race but us scousers weren't given a clear reason why the mayoral race was interfered with, and now he's backing the govt having parts of the council.
I can't stand Joe and his lot and there's deffo curroption in the council, but handing it to be dealt by the most curropt people in the country, who have an insanely bad history with scousers is insane for a labour leader to do. Really feels as tho he's trying to lose his safest seats (all 5 UK safest seats in 2019 were in Liverpool and all Labour) which is a gamble that own't pay off imo. He's not gaining ground with anyone really so I wouldn't be shocked if he lost harder than Corbyn. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and he does the right things for my city and the country and wins the election.
I disagree with him on nearly everything and he's just coming across as a red tory.
He was more interested in holding Nicola Sturgeon to account for something she *might* have done (which tbf is the right thing) than Priti Patel or Matt Hancock. And his handling of Liverpool has been insane. Idk the ins and outs of the mayoral race but us scousers weren't given a clear reason why the mayoral race was interfered with, and now he's backing the govt having parts of the council.
I can't stand Joe and his lot and there's deffo curroption in the council, but handing it to be dealt by the most curropt people in the country, who have an insanely bad history with scousers is insane for a labour leader to do. Really feels as tho he's trying to lose his safest seats (all 5 UK safest seats in 2019 were in Liverpool and all Labour) which is a gamble that own't pay off imo. He's not gaining ground with anyone really so I wouldn't be shocked if he lost harder than Corbyn. Hopefully I'm proven wrong and he does the right things for my city and the country and wins the election.
If Starmer had been a Tory plant, he wouldn't have done anything differently.
I'm be interested to hear @QE2 opinion being a major cheer leader of the disaster that is Keir Starmer.
Original post by Burton Bridge
I'm be interested to hear @QE2 opinion being a major cheer leader of the disaster that is Keir Starmer.
Opinion on what?
Original post by QE2
Opinion on what?
The subject matter, how KS is becoming a cheer leader for the tories and just in general being utterly useless.
Whats your views on KS's leadership
Original post by Burton Bridge
KS is becoming a cheer leader for the tories and just in general being utterly useless.
What makes you think this is the case? (specifics).
Original post by QE2
What makes you think this is the case? (specifics).
Not getting your opinion then, nevermind thought it was a waste of time.
Original post by Burton Bridge
Not getting your opinion then, nevermind thought it was a waste of time.
You expressed an opinion (a somewhat strange one - so no change there). I just wondered if you had any rational argument to back it up. I guess not.
Original post by QE2
You expressed an opinion (a somewhat strange one - so no change there). I just wondered if you had any rational argument to back it up. I guess not.
My question was to get YOUR opinion not pick mine apart.
You have been a cheerleader Starmer, he's failing miserably, poll after poll show this. Ecomically right wing people (or people further right than i) keep telling us we need a CeNtErIsT to gain popularity, the same people desperately try to label people who want democratic socialism as far left and accredit high taxation and social policy as the cause of our 2019 election defeat.
My view isn't related, you are a fan of KS I'm looking for yours! I was genuinely interested if you had a an updated view on KS now he's in power of his own party. It wasn't a hard question but it would involve you forming your own opinion though as opposed to parroting those of your chosen ilk as you normally do - hence the interest.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by Burton Bridge
You have been a cheerleader Starmer, he's failing miserably, poll after poll show this. Ecomically right wing people (or people further right than i) keep telling us we need a CeNtErIsT to gain popularity, the same people desperately try to label people who want democratic socialism as far left and accredit high taxation and social policy as the cause of our 2019 election defeat.
My view isn't related, you are a fan of KS I'm looking for yours! I was genuinely interested if you had a an updated view on KS now he's in power of his own party. It wasn't a hard question but it would involve you forming your own opinion though as opposed to parroting those of your chosen ilk as you normally do - hence the interest.
My view isn't related, you are a fan of KS I'm looking for yours! I was genuinely interested if you had a an updated view on KS now he's in power of his own party. It wasn't a hard question but it would involve you forming your own opinion though as opposed to parroting those of your chosen ilk as you normally do - hence the interest.
Starmer's ability and his popularity are not necessarily related - unless you believe that Boris is hugely capable?
If we want a Labour leader who is merely electable, he just needs to be populist, slightly xenophobic, make unrealistic promises and pander to the baser instincts of the mostly idiot population.
If we want a Labour leader who genuinely stands for socialist principles, get Corbyn back.
Starmer is somewhere between the two but your right-wing media will always attempt to paint him as a failure. You really shouldn't believe everything they tell you.
My opinion of him is irrelevant. He was the best option at the time. If and when someone better comes along, they will get my support.
What you seem to be failing to understand (add it to that long list) is that I simply support the best option at the time. If he isn't the best option, he can go. I don't give a ****. I am not emotionally tied to him the way you are to Rees Mogg, for example.
(edited 3 years ago)
Original post by QE2
My opinion of him is irrelevant.
He was the best option at the time.
He was the best option at the time.
Thats like totally your opinion though man 👍
Original post by Starship Trooper
Thats like totally your opinion though man 👍
Erm, obviously. But a reasonable one supported by rational argument.
Not all opinions are created equal.
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