Bell Ringing

I ring at a very nice 10 in St Albans. Been ringing for maybe 4 years now, although it hasn't been going well as of late.

Basically I'm up to touches of Grandsire. It's been complicated, because I've been away a lot, but I can usually ring plain courses of Grandsire Doubles, Triples and Caters fairly fluently. Unfortunately when trying to ring touches I have some trouble; whenever someone calls a bob or single I immediately forget where I am, which is especially embarrassing on the back.

Part of the problem is that I like ringing doubles methods, although I don't know many apart from Bob and Grandsire. Unfortunately, being a 10-bell tower and having a past master of the Cumberlands among us, ours is a surprise society, and proud of it. I doubt whether I shall ever ring surprise more than the treble.

Reply 2

OP

hmm. Maybe you need some alternative way of thinking about what to do at bobs and singles? How do you (try to) do it currently?

I have mostly rang at 8-bell towers, and even then mostly on 6. I think the only thing on 10 I've done is call changes and plain hunt royal.

I can ring calls in gransire doubles alright. I remember them simply by matching what I would have done next with what I should do next now. That's a bit of a weak way to do it, I guess, but it gets the job done. I've only rung plain courses of grandsire triples. I rarely ring grandsire, actually.

I have trouble with major methods, still. There being 8 bells makes it much harder for me to pick out the seperation between the ropes, and also with no tenor at the back it's harder for me to find out where I am if I was daydreaming.

I learnt the line for Cambridge minor yesterday, but couldn't ring it. It's got really fidly 3-4 places in it that kept throwing me off, and then with it being such a new method to me there was no getting back on track.

I learnt to ring in York and currently ring around North Birmingham

If you want to ring doubles methods or even minor or something, why not go to some other local towers that don't have 10 bells, or whose ringers are of a lower standard? Back in York my main tower was an 8 and we did everything from handling and rounds up to spliced major ****. The other was a 6 and if they rang a plain course of grandsire it was a very good day. Both were fun to go to, and both were useful for my learning.

Reply 3

L i b

19

It's something I'd rather like to get involved in.

I spent Christmas at my sister and brother-in-law's new house in Surrey this year... walked out into the garden on Christmas morning and the air was filled with bells ringing. I've never heard anything like it; wonderful.

I suspect the miserable Presbyterians in Scotland don't have quite as interesting a culture of bell-ringing as England does. Shame really.

Reply 4

Nynyflower

18

I went once and got really bad rope burns on my hands, my dyspraxia just couldn't stand up to it :frown:

Reply 5

rock_ten

hmm. Maybe you need some alternative way of thinking about what to do at bobs and singles? How do you (try to) do it currently?

I have mostly rang at 8-bell towers, and even then mostly on 6. I think the only thing on 10 I've done is call changes and plain hunt royal.

I can ring calls in gransire doubles alright. I remember them simply by matching what I would have done next with what I should do next now. That's a bit of a weak way to do it, I guess, but it gets the job done. I've only rung plain courses of grandsire triples. I rarely ring grandsire, actually.

Well I know them backwards, well, bobs anyway. At least, I knew them backwards before I went travelling for 5 months. I know them both by the Coleman tip (double-dodge where you happen to be and the next time do whatever you would do if you had single dodged there in that orientation) and the whole "If you're going to do such and such then do this next time and then do that". My problem is as follows:

1) If I'm hunting in to lead or out to the back and I know that in a plain course there will be no dodges then I tend to ring it by ropesight (i.e. ring slower/faster until I run out of bells) and stop counting. This is reflexive. It means that if someone calls a bob in a situation like this (i.e. when I'm the hunt bell) I am immediately lost.

2) If someone calls a bob I immediately stop counting anyway. This is fine unless I also forget which dodge I'm doing, which I always do for the split second that allows me to go wrong.

3) I lack concentration. I'm not even sure whether I count in a plain course of grandsire triples. I drift off, ring it fairly well and then come back to earth at the end.

I have trouble with major methods, still. There being 8 bells makes it much harder for me to pick out the seperation between the ropes, and also with no tenor at the back it's harder for me to find out where I am if I was daydreaming.

Major methods are a piece of cake for me, I've had heaps of practice, but my striking really suffers for caters and royal. I've rung plain hunt royal, bob caters and grandsire caters, and the 2 or 3 to cloisters (every7one else does Stedman front I think, 2 and 3 hunt to thirds place and back)

If you want to ring doubles methods or even minor or something, why not go to some other local towers that don't have 10 bells, or whose ringers are of a lower standard? Back in York my main tower was an 8 and we did everything from handling and rounds up to spliced major ****. The other was a 6 and if they rang a plain course of grandsire it was a very good day. Both were fun to go to, and both were useful for my learning.

This is what I should have done. Unfortunately the ringing in St Albans is ofd a very high standard in general. Still, with any luck I'll get the oppertunity to learn some doubles methods at university. I pick up methods quickly, it's touches that get me :frown:

So I presume you've got past Stedman then? I learnt the blue line years ago (you know the RW "happy hunter" stuff? I got my third badge by writing out all the methods it listed in full) but have never had the opportunity of ringing it.

L i b

It's something I'd rather like to get involved in.

I spent Christmas at my sister and brother-in-law's new house in Surrey this year... walked out into the garden on Christmas morning and the air was filled with bells ringing. I've never heard anything like it; wonderful.

I suspect the miserable Presbyterians in Scotland don't have quite as interesting a culture of bell-ringing as England does. Shame really.

You do surprise me :wink:

There are towers in Scotland but not so many, try Dove's guide here: http://dove.cccbr.org.uk/dove.php that shoudl tell you where your nearest ringable tower is.

Reply 6

OP

Hmm so basically it's that you don't count yourself all the time? I think I do, out of habit. Do you think you could just force yourself to do it? I guess you needn't actually know exactly where you are, so long as you know what work you're doing next. For example when I ring plain bob whatever, after completing one of the "features" (2nds, long 5ths, whatever dodges) I tell myself what the next one will be, and then just relax and hunt until it happens. That way, if a bob is called then it can only mean that we've reached that next piece of work and then I must do whatever it is needs to be done.
Still, I'm not sure if that would help really. *shrug*

re: being the hunt bell and coming out of the hunt (I think that's what you were saying), you can just know that a bob will always be when you're right at the back, because you have to lie and double dodge to get back into the method proper. Actually that's only on grandsire doubles, I don't know if it's different on triples. But in any case, the bob will always come at the same place (if at all), won't it?

What university are you going to?

Stedman - well I know stedman doubles and triples (and I presume the extension continues as simply as it is between those), I've not rang a touch of it yet, though. You should ask to ring stedman some time. I should think it's no harder than grandsire triples. Stedman triples and Grandsire triples are two that I want to get really proficient at, because they seem to be popular at 8 bell towers for services and things.

I've not encountered the "happy hunter" stuff, lol.

What do the folk at your tower say about your counting-based problems?

L i b - try it! Check out the link ukebert gave and find some local towers, or join a university society. Ringing at Christmas is great, I agree. Last Christmas I rang at three towers on Christmas morning and it was awesome. Ringing at special occasions is one of my favourite parts of ringing, perhaps. Well I don't know, I like it all, but doing something so high-profile yet so secretive is pretty fun.

Reply 7

Greatleysteg

19

I'm a campanologist :proud:

I've been doing it since the end of 2005 at a really novice 8 tower in Hale Village, where I lived until very recently.

All we really tend to do is changes, Queens, Plain Hunt and, when I push for it, Grandsire. I have to travel around to get a decent ring and I've been at this level since a couple of months after I joined.

Hopefully I'll be able to come on in leaps and bounds when I get to Oxford, in a week.

Reply 8

OP

excellent - yea you should find plent of room for progression. Aside from the university society, consider ringing with local bands and on Sunday services as much as you can, too. Most of the students will do that anyway, I suppose.

Reply 9

rock_ten

Hmm so basically it's that you don't count yourself all the time? I think I do, out of habit. Do you think you could just force yourself to do it? I guess you needn't actually know exactly where you are, so long as you know what work you're doing next. For example when I ring plain bob whatever, after completing one of the "features" (2nds, long 5ths, whatever dodges) I tell myself what the next one will be, and then just relax and hunt until it happens. That way, if a bob is called then it can only mean that we've reached that next piece of work and then I must do whatever it is needs to be done.
Still, I'm not sure if that would help really. *shrug*

I'm not really sure whether I count or not. Whenever I'm concentrating I always do, but when I'm not concentrating I have no idea :o:

I can do touches of Bob easy as pie, it's only Grandsire that I can't do. And I can usually do them in doubles, it's just triples and above that get me.

re: being the hunt bell and coming out of the hunt (I think that's what you were saying), you can just know that a bob will always be when you're right at the back, because you have to lie and double dodge to get back into the method proper. Actually that's only on grandsire doubles, I don't know if it's different on triples. But in any case, the bob will always come at the same place (if at all), won't it?

It is, one of the 4/5 dodges. Can't remember which one at present, but it always does come in the same place. And if you're always called into it at the same point as well. Part of the problem is that I can do the plain course off pat now. My touches have actually got worse instead of better, when I wasn't certain of the plain course I concentrated on it, if I know it then I lose concentration and get lost every time they call something.

What university are you going to?

Cambridge

They have a fairly active guild and encourage new learners, so hopefully I should be OK.

Stedman - well I know stedman doubles and triples (and I presume the extension continues as simply as it is between those), I've not rang a touch of it yet, though. You should ask to ring stedman some time. I should think it's no harder than grandsire triples. Stedman triples and Grandsire triples are two that I want to get really proficient at, because they seem to be popular at 8 bell towers for services and things.

According to the Steve Coleman book if there was a Royal Wedding peal at St Pauls it would probably be Stedman cinques. It's supposed to be a lovely principle, and I'm fairly confident I coudl manage doubles at least. Still, at the moment I'm just trying to get through the last week at home before really trying at Cam. I'm hoping to prove to the ringers at home that I can do it from time to time :rolleyes:

What do the folk at your tower say about your counting-based problems?

L i b - try it! Check out the link ukebert gave and find some local towers, or join a university society. Ringing at Christmas is great, I agree. Last Christmas I rang at three towers on Christmas morning and it was awesome. Ringing at special occasions is one of my favourite parts of ringing, perhaps. Well I don't know, I like it all, but doing something so high-profile yet so secretive is pretty fun.

They tell me to concentrate :p:

I think they're a little bemused tbh, most people tend to progress faster than me and those that don't get left behind. It's a tower that is really good for really good people. They ring standard 8 spliced most practices. They learnt Double Norwich recently en masse.

And I love ringing at Christmas. I usually ring on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day if I'm not involved at the Cathedral and on New Years Eve/Day. It's all good fun, we have a NY party and everything.

Reply 10

OP

ukebert - learning a new method like Stedman or maybe Kent, might be a nice mental break from grandsire triples. I know that with me, when I'm consistently messing something up then I have to leave it alone completely and let it all settle down and reset in my head, before having another go at it (after starting back at an easier level at first). In fact at the start of this year I took about 6 weeks off from ringing because everything was going downhill, I couldn't even get bob doubles right any more. When I came back I started with really easy stuff and built back up and then had another period of good progress. It comes in fits and starts, like with most things I guess. You probably see the same pattern of learning and progression with a lot of other things you try.

Reply 11

rock_ten

ukebert - learning a new method like Stedman or maybe Kent, might be a nice mental break from grandsire triples. I know that with me, when I'm consistently messing something up then I have to leave it alone completely and let it all settle down and reset in my head, before having another go at it (after starting back at an easier level at first). In fact at the start of this year I took about 6 weeks off from ringing because everything was going downhill, I couldn't even get bob doubles right any more. When I came back I started with really easy stuff and built back up and then had another period of good progress. It comes in fits and starts, like with most things I guess. You probably see the same pattern of learning and progression with a lot of other things you try.

I think you're right there. I don't think that I could convince my guild to let me ring anything more interesting though, I've tried. I've already rung all the stuff that they think is appropriate. Roll on uni :p:

Reply 12

OP

Right so I just looked at Grandsire triples, and basically it's just got 4/5 dodges (which used to be the back in doubles) and then 6/7 dodges as well? Actually to be honest I don't think of it that way, I see the 4/5 dodges as the difference between the doubles and triples methods, but that's not what's really happening I suppose.

I wonder if you could tell me in a IF, THEN kind of way, how to behave at bobs and singles? I made a guess but struggle to see it from a method diagram.

EDIT: as an example, bobs in grandsire doubles:

[If you were about to do] - [now do]
4/5 down - double dodge 4/5 up
4/5 up - early 3rds, then hunt
hunting - double dodge 4/5 down
3rds - unaffected

that kind of thing. Thanks!

Reply 13

OP

here's quite a nice recording of the bells in Wymondham, Norfolk. The method is London No3 Surprise Royal, part of a peal apparently. The quality of the recording is unusually good for bell ringing stuff

http://www.wymondhambells.org.uk/london3.mp3

Reply 14

OP

Tonight I learnt St Simon's and St Martin's, two doubles methods. They're commonly rang spliced together, because only their frontwork differs, and you can switch back and forth between the methods quite easily. Bobs are the "same" as plain bob, in that 2nd's place bell becomes 3rd's, 3rd's becomes 4th's and 4th's becomes 2nd's.

Basically in St Simon's at the front you double dodge, lead-seconds-lead, double dodge, then out via 3/4 dodge, lie in 5th and then make 3rds from the back, then out and do long 5ths. Then you do the reverse coming back (3rds from the back, right out again, in via 3/4)

St Martin's is exactly the same except that at the front you make 3 lots of seconds, leading full in between and at each end. The call to switch between methods can come in the middle of the front work, if you're 2nds place bell, so you might end up doing, for example
[lead-2nds-lead-2nds-lead-double dodge], if going from St. Martin's to St. Simon's, or the reverse if the other way around. The 2nds I made bold is where you'd finish if it came round (and so it's under the treble).

Reply 15

Myotherone

ive been ringing for about a year now, can ring plain hunt on any bell, and can ring treble to grandshie, plain bob

I think we should make a society

Reply 16

Kew

16

ukebert

I ring at a very nice 10 in St Albans.

Is that at St Peter's?? They've definitely got 10 bells, if I remember rightly from the last time I went up the tower.

Reply 17

Myotherone

I ring once a month on a 12 and the rest of the month on 8.

Cirencester Branch

Reply 18

OP