Police: Sixth-leading cause of death for young black men

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LoveAmore
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
6th highest cause of death is by police... 3rd highest cause of death is being killed by mostly other black people.

Solving the police issue is great - but there's another bigger problem that might also need a tiny bit of attention there.
I agree that both problems need to be solved, for sure. I think that the police problem is probably most outrageous though as they are meant to be the most virtuous citizens and it's literally their job to 'protect and serve'. If they fail to do this and actually do the very opposite, the black people of America virtually have zero protection. Just speculating but that could actually be a significant contributor to black-on-black crime. Perhaps they feel a need to sort out their own problems and defend themselves often violently due to the police not being a sufficient source of protection.
In terms of black-on-black crime I think a lot of it stems from poverty (poverty which stemmed from a history of systematic racism where black people weren't able to obtain bank loans and mortgages to buy houses, hence the creation of 'ghettos'). However, saying that I do agree that people should be held responsible for their murder. I agree that black-on-black crime needs to be given attention too and the underlying problems adressed
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by caravaggio2)
Black Americans are a shade under 13% of the US population but the homicide stats are worse than you say because the vast majority of black people committing homicides are men not women so roughly 6%.
Put another way from one demographic just over 1 in 20 of the US are committing more murders than the other 19 combined. This is wildly out of proportion by any measure and never acknowledged in reports like the OPs as they shade their 2.5x figure.
Perhaps the point should be its amazing the figure isn't greater than they're 2.5x more likely to be killed by the cops.
Exactly, and to be fair, however you display the numbers it still makes damning reading.

The point is, I am absolutely sick of race being used now as a card to beat other races with. For example one of our politicians in the commons (Labour unsurprisingly) declared that the coronavirus was affecting black and asian communities more, which it is, but then went on to say it was discriminatory against black and asian communities. So now we have a racist virus. To the subject at hand. Black people are more likely to be involved with the police, because they are much more likely to commit crime. But that's not what the left tell you. They just go "Police racist" without even looking at the figures that go with them. The simple fact is, regardless of race, don't commit crime and you won't be involved with the police at all.
(Original post by LoveAmore)
I agree that both problems need to be solved, for sure. I think that the police problem is probably most outrageous though as they are meant to be the most virtuous citizens and it's literally their job to 'protect and serve'. If they fail to do this and actually do the very opposite, the black people of America virtually have zero protection. Just speculating but that could actually be a significant contributor to black-on-black crime. Perhaps they feel a need to sort out their own problems and defend themselves often violently due to the police not being a sufficient source of protection.
In terms of black-on-black crime I think a lot of it stems from poverty (poverty which stemmed from a history of systematic racism where black people weren't able to obtain bank loans and mortgages to buy houses, hence the creation of 'ghettos'). However, saying that I do agree that people should be held responsible for their murder. I agree that black-on-black crime needs to be given attention too and the underlying problems adressed
Poverty is a reason for crime, but certainly not an excuse. I see poverty as a scapegoat, there are poor people, or those living close to their means who do not commit crime. Poverty is never ever an excuse for crime, in any country, but I'd say especially in this country.
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LoveAmore
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Exactly, and to be fair, however you display the numbers it still makes damning reading.

The point is, I am absolutely sick of race being used now as a card to beat other races with. For example one of our politicians in the commons (Labour unsurprisingly) declared that the coronavirus was affecting black and asian communities more, which it is, but then went on to say it was discriminatory against black and asian communities. So now we have a racist virus. To the subject at hand. Black people are more likely to be involved with the police, because they are much more likely to commit crime. But that's not what the left tell you. They just go "Police racist" without even looking at the figures that go with them. The simple fact is, regardless of race, don't commit crime and you won't be involved with the police at all.

Poverty is a reason for crime, but certainly not an excuse. I see poverty as a scapegoat, there are poor people, or those living close to their means who do not commit crime. Poverty is never ever an excuse for crime, in any country, but I'd say especially in this country.
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...ealth-53035054
A reputable source. Obviously those saying that the virus itself targets people of colour are in the minority. That’s ludicrous. People (most notably Public Health England themselves) are referring to the treatment upon contracting the virus. It is significantly poorer, as evidenced by the report which the government did not release until they were pressurised, presumably due to the findings.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the only child without underlying health conditions to die from Covid-19 in the UK was from a minority ethnic group?
As I said before in reference to poverty in the US, I agree with you it is not an excuse.
Last edited by LoveAmore; 1 month ago
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by Napp)
Well put. One isnt usually apt to view things through a conspiratorial type lens but it is interesting that police shootings of certain races are more or less ignored. Take that poor sod who was murdered in a hotel corridor a couple of years back, that barely touched the headlines (not to mention it was one of the more prominent cases). Alas, such cases dont tend to sit well with the world view inflicted on the airwaves by the likes of CNN et al. that the police are not but a bunch of irredeemable racists :lol: Such a view has even started percolating over here in NZL where they not only dont carry guns but have equality of races in their founding charter. Reality is best ignored it seems though :lol:

The police officer who killed that poor lad had “you’re ****ed” written on the side of his gun and was acquitted of murder. I’m not even convinced he broke the law, someone saw him showing off a gun at a party in his hotel room but he didn’t fire it ... since when has it been illegal to possess a gun in America?

The cop who shot him was white so it wasn’t big news ... white people can kill white people and black people can kill black people without causing much of an issue. It’s only big news if the killer and the victim differ in colour.
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Napp
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
The police officer who killed that poor lad had “you’re ****ed” written on the side of his gun and was acquitted of murder. I’m not even convinced he broke the law, someone saw him showing off a gun at a party in his hotel room but he didn’t fire it ... since when has it been illegal to possess a gun in America?
I remember, unfortunately, seeing the unedited footage from that. It was beyond horrifying. I can't believe the officer wasnt done for murder when he, quite literally, executed a man kneeling on the floor crying for his life. Shocking.
The cop who shot him was white so it wasn’t big news ... white people can kill white people and black people can kill black people without causing much of an issue. It’s only big news if the killer and the victim differ in colour.
Indeed, and only in a very specific direction.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...ealth-53035054
A reputable source. Obviously those saying that the virus itself targets people of colour are in the minority. That’s ludicrous. People (most notably Public Health England themselves) are referring to the treatment upon contracting the virus. It is significantly poorer, as evidenced by the report which the government did not release until they were pressurised, presumably due to the findings.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the only child without underlying health conditions to die from Covid-19 in the UK was from a minority ethnic group?
As I said before in reference to poverty in the US, I agree with you it is not an excuse.
Unfortunately at the moment the fact that the only child without underlying health conditions to die from Covid is just that, a death, with no mitigating circumstances. A study of one a result does not make. Just because that one child was from a minority ethnic group does not in any way show that there is any unknown bias towards mistreatment of that group, because the study group is only one. Interestingly enough, if that child was white, would you be saying that white people were mistreated in hospital?

The issue with poverty in this country, and the US is that it is constantly peddled as an excuse, repeatedly by the left, and unfortunately it's seeping in to the conservative party. Take for example the Lisa Montgomery case. It was premeditated, she knew exactly what she was doing, yet you've got outcry from around the world about how unjust her execution is, and was. ********. She killed someone. She took a life. It absolutely does not matter her circumstances, killing somebody is wrong, and to be honest, I find the way that the left try to justify murders, rapes, thefts with fairytales about the defendants past absolutely abhorrent. Poverty, and upbringing are no excuse for crime, and heaven knows if we actually locked up these animals that show a propinquity towards crime whether it be low level or not rather than giving them 1000 chances, our citizens would be safer.
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Napp
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.b...ealth-53035054
A reputable source. Obviously those saying that the virus itself targets people of colour are in the minority. That’s ludicrous. People (most notably Public Health England themselves) are referring to the treatment upon contracting the virus. It is significantly poorer, as evidenced by the report which the government did not release until they were pressurised, presumably due to the findings.
Do you think it is a coincidence that the only child without underlying health conditions to die from Covid-19 in the UK was from a minority ethnic group?
As I said before in reference to poverty in the US, I agree with you it is not an excuse.
Thats an extremely bold claim to claim that all medical personnel across the board are racists who're giving 3rd rate care to ethnics.. Something that report does not actually say yet somehow you have extracted from it?

This particular quote being noteworthy:
Historic racism may mean that people are less likely to seek care or to demand better personal protective equipment, it says.
Where it quite explicitly says the opposite of what you stated.. noting that historic (i.e. not current) could be a factor
Those are two rather key aspects you neglected to mention..
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LoveAmore
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(Original post by Napp)
Thats an extremely bold claim to claim that all medical personnel across the board are racists who're giving 3rd rate care to ethnics.. Something that report does not actually say yet somehow you have extracted from it?

This particular quote being noteworthy:

Where it quite explicitly says the opposite of what you stated.. noting that historic (i.e. not current) could be a factor
Those are two rather key aspects you neglected to mention..
An extremely bold claim that I at no point made. Note how you made a sweeping statement by saying 'all' are 'racists', not me.

The point is, while the article claims that there are other aspects that contribute to the increased death rate, even once they are accounted for there is a disproportionate amount of people of colour dying. It's virtually impossible to argue with these statistics produced by a reputable governmental body, the same governmental body that releases the daily COVID-19 statistics - would you refute that their statistics on the number of people testing positive per day are also illegitimate?
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by Napp)
I remember, unfortunately, seeing the unedited footage from that. It was beyond horrifying. I can't believe the officer wasnt done for murder when he, quite literally, executed a man kneeling on the floor crying for his life. Shocking.

Indeed, and only in a very specific direction.
If it was a black cop shooting him it would’ve caused a furore as well. Fox News and Newsmax and all those types of channels would get so excited if that story dropped on their desk they’d need to change their underwear 😂

There are two types of Americans who become police officers. The ones who genuinely care about their community and want to help people ... and the ones who got bullied at school and want to compensate for their micro penis by having big trucks and big guns and bossing people around without recourse. It’s that group who need weeding out and banning.
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Napp
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
If it was a black cop shooting him it would’ve caused a furore as well. Fox News and Newsmax and all those types of channels would get so excited if that story dropped on their desk they’d need to change their underwear 😂

There are two types of Americans who become police officers. The ones who genuinely care about their community and want to help people ... and the ones who got bullied at school and want to compensate for their micro penis by having big trucks and big guns and bossing people around without recourse. It’s that group who need weeding out and banning.
It reminds me of the description i heard about the London riot squads (from a PC in east London no less) who notes that they come across as a bunch of low level thugs who're out to crack sculls (like that poor man who was killed a few years ago when he was launched into the concrete). Of course, probably not true for all of them but as you noted, there are stereotypes for a reason and those they stem from tend to be a severe discredit to the forces they serve. Be it the racist ones, vindictive or little napoleans. None of them are particularly useful for police departments that, supposedly, police by consent for the community.
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Napp
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
An extremely bold claim that I at no point made. Note how you made a sweeping statement by saying 'all' are 'racists', not me.

The point is, while the article claims that there are other aspects that contribute to the increased death rate, even once they are accounted for there is a disproportionate amount of people of colour dying. It's virtually impossible to argue with these statistics produced by a reputable governmental body, the same governmental body that releases the daily COVID-19 statistics - would you refute that their statistics on the number of people testing positive per day are also illegitimate?
Your comment and its inference is clear, you said that all ethnics receive a lower standard of care did you not...?
Yes i stated it because you infered it with your comment, and havent exactly sought to explain or disprove other than taking exception to me noting it.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make in the second paragraph? I never said anything was "illegitimate", merely you saying that all doctors are racists was a load of crap. Not to mention your misrepresentation of the article, as i noted in my original comment.

You can try and argue all day that every ethnic who comes through a hospital door is immediately subject to 3rd rate treatment but that is not what the article says, not even close.
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IanDangerously
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(Original post by Napp)
It reminds me of the description i heard about the London riot squads (from a PC in east London no less) who notes that they come across as a bunch of low level thugs who're out to crack sculls (like that poor man who was killed a few years ago when he was launched into the concrete). Of course, probably not true for all of them but as you noted, there are stereotypes for a reason and those they stem from tend to be a severe discredit to the forces they serve. Be it the racist ones, vindictive or little napoleans. None of them are particularly useful for police departments that, supposedly, police by consent for the community.
I’m sure it must be frustrating for them being stereotyped that way. To be honest the majority of police officers I’ve come across here and in the US have been unfailingly polite and helpful.

Every so often though there’ll be one who’s just completely obnoxious. I don’t know how those people manage to stay in the job!
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LoveAmore
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(Original post by IanDangerously)
I’m sure it must be frustrating for them being stereotyped that way. To be honest the majority of police officers I’ve come across here and in the US have been unfailingly polite and helpful.
I agree with you that many police officers do not deserve the bad name.
I know you haven't said anything against them but your statement actually applies to black people too. It's equally frustrating to be constantly stereotyped as loud; aggressive; dangerous; violent; uneducated
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LoveAmore
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(Original post by Napp)
Your comment and its inference is clear, you said that all ethnics receive a lower standard of care did you not...?
Yes i stated it because you infered it with your comment, and havent exactly sought to explain or disprove other than taking exception to me noting it.

I'm not entirely sure what point you're trying to make in the second paragraph? I never said anything was "illegitimate", merely you saying that all doctors are racists was a load of crap. Not to mention your misrepresentation of the article, as i noted in my original comment.

You can try and argue all day that every ethnic who comes through a hospital door is immediately subject to 3rd rate treatment but that is not what the article says, not even close.
An inference that arises from a person's statement isn't verifiable until it's affirmed. As I have debunked your inference that I allegedly believe that 'all medical personnel across the board are racists' it is void. Once again, the word 'all' nor 'racists' never appeared in my statement. I was drawing attention to the treatment of people of colour, not the perpetrators - I was not assigning blame to anyone.

Another article by researchers at university of London: https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2020/nov...or-bame-people

Advocacy groups also argue that systemic racism is a factor in the way BAME people are treated once they enter the healthcare system. UK research has shown that BAME patients report lower satisfaction with the NHS as well as a less positive experience with nurses and doctors than white patients while being treated for serious conditions such as cancer. Over 60% of black people do not believe their health is as equally protected by the NHS compared to white people – and in places the data seems to support this. Black women in the UK are five times more likely than white women to die during childbirth, for example.

This contrasts with the publicly held view of NHS as a fair system that provides equal access for all. But the fact that there’s virtually the same racial disparity in death rates from COVID-19 in the US and Britain – despite America’s two-tier healthcare system, with limited access for poorer people – strengthens the view that deeper issues, such as racism, may be present in UK healthcare.
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caravaggio2
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Zzzzzzzzz
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paul514
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
According to a study from the University of Michigan, about 100 in 100,000 Black men and boys will be killed by police during their lives (in the US), while 39 white men and boys per 100,000 are killed by police. This means Black men are about 2.5 times more likely to be killed by police than white men.
https://news.umich.edu/police-sixth-...ung-black-men/
Don’t commit more crimes per capita and of the more serious variety then.
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paul514
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(Original post by BiafranPharm)
Like trafic stops: https://www.vox.com/identities/2020/...ting-explained Maurice Gordon

sleeping in your bed: Breonna Taylor

selling cigs: Eric Garner

walking from home: Elijah Mclaine

Broken Lights: Walter Scott

Accused of using a fake 20 dollar bill and chocked out: George floyd

Doing U turns in the road: Miriam Carey in DC where white people stormed the capitol unharmed and the ones arrested were released on Bail, Black men get locked up and harsher sentences for petty crimes

There are 2 americas one for white and others for blacks/browns/natives etc
Amerikkka was built on racism, Police in america used to be called slave patrol ffs

Youll never hear or see white people killed in america by police in the examples shown above

Explain why in the 80s when there was the crack epidemic there was mass incarceration of black men causing broken black families but a similar opioid crises affecting white americans right now a different approach of therapy and rehab is being used
The same sentences for crack apply to meth a drug taken by mostly white people in the USA.

You’re rhetoric doesn’t answer his point with stats
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paul514
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Ok never mind this is just mindless drivel by the end of the first page.
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Napp
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
An inference that arises from a person's statement isn't verifiable until it's affirmed. As I have debunked your inference that I allegedly believe that 'all medical personnel across the board are racists' it is void. Once again, the word 'all' nor 'racists' never appeared in my statement. I was drawing attention to the treatment of people of colour, not the perpetrators - I was not assigning blame to anyone.
Yeah im not certain you know what that word means. Simply saying 'you're wrong' is not debuking anything.
You cannot assert that ethnics recieve universally poor health treatment without blaming the doctors. To try and say otherwise is a really quite impressive untruth.
Another article by researchers at university of London: https://www.city.ac.uk/news/2020/nov...or-bame-people

Advocacy groups also argue that systemic racism is a factor in the way BAME people are treated once they enter the healthcare system. UK research has shown that BAME patients report lower satisfaction with the NHS as well as a less positive experience with nurses and doctors than white patients while being treated for serious conditions such as cancer. Over 60% of black people do not believe their health is as equally protected by the NHS compared to white people – and in places the data seems to support this. Black women in the UK are five times more likely than white women to die during childbirth, for example.

This contrasts with the publicly held view of NHS as a fair system that provides equal access for all. But the fact that there’s virtually the same racial disparity in death rates from COVID-19 in the US and Britain – despite America’s two-tier healthcare system, with limited access for poorer people – strengthens the view that deeper issues, such as racism, may be present in UK healthcare.
Yeah, not impartial observers at all. Once again though, you have just accused the NHS employees of going out of their way to treat ethnic people poorly. How exactly are you trying to square that with your above claim of not blaming anything? :rolleyes:
Either way, seeing as your quote is merely based on opinion, and not fact, well...
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paul514
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(Original post by Napp)
Yeah im not certain you know what that word means. Simply saying 'you're wrong' is not debuking anything.
You cannot assert that ethnics recieve universally poor health treatment without blaming the doctors. To try and say otherwise is a really quite impressive untruth.

Yeah, not impartial observers at all. Once again though, you have just accused the NHS employees of going out of their way to treat ethnic people poorly. How exactly are you trying to square that with your above claim of not blaming anything? :rolleyes:
Either way, seeing as your quote is merely based on opinion, and not fact, well...
Loving the Sir Humphrey thumbnail pic
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