Police: Sixth-leading cause of death for young black men

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LoveAmore
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#81
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#81
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
What’s the proportion of those stopped who are over 60 compared to those under 60? Is that out of proportion?
I've been looking for a while but can't find any data on the age of offenders. Some sources say that they don't ask people for their age but I don't know. If you can find this data feel free to share it. I've found some data on stop and search by age though: 7% of those stopped and searched are over 60.
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LoveAmore
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#82
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#82
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
What’s the proportion of those stopped who are over 60 compared to those under 60? Is that out of proportion?
Either way, I think it's important not to deflect from the point: as I assume you can see the number of stop and searches for black people in very much out of proportion. I would not imagine that this is to the same extent for any other demographic such as age. 950% is a lot. And in the case there are other alarming disproportionalities they should be addressed too don't you think?
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Just my opinion
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#83
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#83
(Original post by LoveAmore)
Either way, I think it's important not to deflect from the point:
That's rich considering you started with black youths in America and now are moved on to s&s stats in London
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paul514
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Just my opinion)
That's rich considering you started with black youths in America and now are moved on to s&s stats in London
The poster won’t engage on the actual context of the statistics, that is the nub of the issue.
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imlikeahermit
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#85
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#85
(Original post by LoveAmore)
Either way, I think it's important not to deflect from the point: as I assume you can see the number of stop and searches for black people in very much out of proportion. I would not imagine that this is to the same extent for any other demographic such as age. 950% is a lot. And in the case there are other alarming disproportionalities they should be addressed too don't you think?
The most alarming disproportionality is the amount of crime committed by such a small percentage of the population. But of course, you don’t see that.
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LoveAmore
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#86
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#86
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
The most alarming disproportionality is the amount of crime committed by such a small percentage of the population. But of course, you don’t see that.
You're revealing your own bias. Where the disproportionality is of greater magnitude is what should be addressed first. Especially considering that, as I've said before, the police by default have a greater moral duty than their citizens. The excessive stop and searches are an expression of them abusing their power - in what society is this permissible?
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Napp
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#87
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#87
(Original post by LoveAmore)
You're revealing your own bias. Where the disproportionality is of greater magnitude is what should be addressed first. Especially considering that, as I've said before, the police by default have a greater moral duty than their citizens. The excessive stop and searches are an expression of them abusing their power - in what society is this permissible?
So you're saying that policing by tickbox should be done? Once the police arrest their allotted number of Blacks they should then give the rest a pass or look to arrest a commensurate number of some of ethnic group? Forgive me but thats sounds like the plot of a particularly unpleasant dystopian novel.
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LoveAmore
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#88
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#88
(Original post by Napp)
So you're saying that policing by tickbox should be done? Once the police arrest their allotted number of Blacks they should then give the rest a pass or look to arrest a commensurate number of some of ethnic group? Forgive me but thats sounds like the plot of a particularly unpleasant dystopian novel.
Have you read the rest of the thread? The person I was responding claimed that the most alarming disproportionality was not the fact that black people are 9.5 times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police but that 18% of convicted murder suspects are black. Once again, if you read the rest of the thread you will find my solutions clearly outlined, none of which include quotas.
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Napp
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#89
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#89
(Original post by LoveAmore)
Have you read the rest of the thread? The person I was responding claimed that the most alarming disproportionality was not the fact that black people are 9.5 times more likely to be stopped and searched by the police but that 18% of convicted murder suspects are black. Once again, if you read the rest of the thread you will find my solutions clearly outlined, none of which include quotas.
Nope, i was responding to that specific point of yours about addressing arbitrary 'disproportionality'. The other users comment has no bearing on what i asked you given what you said.
Although, if im reading that comment right, why are you dismissing the massive over representation of black murderers compared to stop and search? One being an alarming statistic and the other fairly immaterial outside of inconveniance caused.
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imlikeahermit
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#90
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(Original post by Napp)
Nope, i was responding to that specific point of yours about addressing arbitrary 'disproportionality'. The other users comment has no bearing on what i asked you given what you said.
Although, if im reading that comment right, why are you dismissing the massive over representation of black murderers compared to stop and search? One being an alarming statistic and the other fairly immaterial outside of inconveniance caused.
In regards to your last sentence I find it utterly bizarre which order said user has those in. Police stop and search loads of black people, up in arms, black people make up a ridiculously disproportionate amount of murders, not a thing mentioned. What a bizarre way to live.
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imlikeahermit
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#91
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#91
(Original post by LoveAmore)
You're revealing your own bias. Where the disproportionality is of greater magnitude is what should be addressed first. Especially considering that, as I've said before, the police by default have a greater moral duty than their citizens. The excessive stop and searches are an expression of them abusing their power - in what society is this permissible?
Napp has hit the nail on the head. What you want is equal numbers across the board, or tick boxes, not based on disproportionality, race, crime bias or anything. By your logic we should stop and search equal numbers of all age groups despite those under 30 being much more likely to be found with something. Firstly, what a waste of police resources, secondly, your ability to just ignore the disproportionality in regards to murders is absolutely absurd.
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LoveAmore
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#92
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#92
(Original post by Napp)
Nope, i was responding to that specific point of yours about addressing arbitrary 'disproportionality'. The other users comment has no bearing on what i asked you given what you said.
Although, if im reading that comment right, why are you dismissing the massive over representation of black murderers compared to stop and search? One being an alarming statistic and the other fairly immaterial outside of inconveniance caused.
A final time, before asking such a question consider reading the thread. You will find be able to find my answer.
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LoveAmore
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#93
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#93
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Napp has hit the nail on the head. What you want is equal numbers across the board, or tick boxes, not based on disproportionality, race, crime bias or anything. By your logic we should stop and search equal numbers of all age groups despite those under 30 being much more likely to be found with something. Firstly, what a waste of police resources, secondly, your ability to just ignore the disproportionality in regards to murders is absolutely absurd.
Where did I say that? I explicitly said that I am against the use of quotas. You've actually already asked me that question in an earlier post so if your ability to retain information is challenged then you may want to revisit previous posts in this thread to inform future responses. In addition, proportion is different from equality. I reiterate: there is a disproportion in the number of black people being stopped and searched. The just and rational solution would not be to equalise the number of people being stopped and searched across all demographics. Evidently, your assumption of what I want does not follow a logical sequence.
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imlikeahermit
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#94
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(Original post by LoveAmore)
Where did I say that? I explicitly said that I am against the use of quotas. You've actually already asked me that question in an earlier post so if your ability to retain information is challenged then you may want to revisit previous posts in this thread to inform future responses. In addition, proportion is different from equality. I reiterate: there is a disproportion in the number of black people being stopped and searched. The just and rational solution would not be to equalise the number of people being stopped and searched across all demographics. Evidently, your assumption of what I want does not follow a logical sequence.
There is disproportion because they are more likely to commit crime! Jesus Christ.
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jackmarshal757
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#95
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This problem can be solved by looking not at race, but at socio-economic background.

To say that black people mainly live in poorer neighbourhoods is a stereotype that ignores the massive growth of the middle class and wealthy African American communities in America. When put alongside equally wealthy white neighbourhoods, they come out as equally comparable in quality of life, crime rate and education levels. You won’t see police patrolling the streets of wealthy black neighbourhoods, why? Because that’s not where the crime is, police go where there is crime. Many African Americans actually want more police, because the crime isn’t being dealt with and it’s because they’ve seen firsthand the crime and destruction that’s been going on for decades in their communities.

The culture that exists within the African American culture should also be looked at, there is an unspoken crisis that is currently going on in America and it’s one that doesn’t get the focus it deserves. Boys growing up without a father is becoming one of the greatest social problems of our time. 73% of African American boys will not grow up with a father, compared to that of 35% of white boys - but the trend is increasing amongst all groups of people. If boys don’t grow up without a father, what do you think happens? They’re twice as likely to be involved in crime and three times likely to become involved in gangs, they’re also as likely to develop mental health problems.

Warren Farrell dubbed mass shootings as ‘the white boys method of crying out for help’, when a boy is hurt and in pain they inflict that pain on others. Out of all the most recent major shootings in America, they all had mental health problems and the majority grew up without a father. This is why when it comes to shootings I don’t blame the gun, but what happened leading up to that point. It’s not a form of racism that when people compared mass shooters being arrested and led out calmly, it was done so that any further hurt could be avoided. It’s much easier to blame guns, because it’s harder to take ownership of such problems as a lack of a father or mental health problems, guns are a much easier target.
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looloo2134
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#96
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#96
(Original post by LoveAmore)
I don't deny that white people get stop and searched too, but black people get stop and searched at a much greater rate. According to official statistics, for every white person that gets stopped and searched, 9.5 black people get stopped and searched.
What social class are they? What age are they? In London black people are mostly younger than white people also many schools black children out number white children at round 10 -1. This does not include the social class of those white children their family background and were they live. You need to contextualise data.
Where I live a young white male but their a lot less of them is just as likely to stop and searched and have nothing found on him as young black male.
It is partly a small number of local people black/white fault they behave badly they like the Krays their a picture on the wall of local white drug dealer who died. It make the area and the law abiding people look bad.
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LoveAmore
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#97
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#97
(Original post by looloo2134)
What social class are they? What age are they? In London black people are mostly younger than white people also many schools black children out number white children at round 10 -1. This does not include the social class of those white children their family background and were they live. You need to contextualise data.
Where I live a young white male but their a lot less of them is just as likely to stop and searched and have nothing found on him as young black male.
It is partly a small number of local people black/white fault they behave badly they like the Krays their a picture on the wall of local white drug dealer who died. It make the area and the law abiding people look bad.
I don't understand how the bit in bold can be true. Black children aren't just living on their own in London. According to government statistics, just under 20% of school children in London are black, and approx. 40% are white.
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looloo2134
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#98
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#98
(Original post by LoveAmore)
I don't understand how the bit in bold can be true. Black children aren't just living on their own in London. According to government statistics, just under 20% of school children in London are black, and approx. 40% are white.
That is greater London areas for example like Hillingdon were most children are white. In Hackney a higher crime area for example most children are black very few are white and their a lot of older white people and Jewish people.
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LoveAmore
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#99
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#99
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
There is disproportion because they are more likely to commit crime! Jesus Christ.
We're going round in circles here. As I have said multiple times, while there is a disproportionate number of black people committing crimes, the amount of black people stopped is even more disproportionate. Black people are not 9.5 times more likely to commit crime than white people but are 9.5 times more likely to be stopped. By default, the average black person has 9.5 times a greater chance of being practically harassed by those who are meant to protect them, those who subsidised by the money they give to the state, simply because their skin in darker. I cannot comprehend how you do not see that as outrageous. If the statistics were switched and white people were 9.5 times more likely to be stopped and searched would you be as keen as you have been to deflect from this audacious disproportionality?
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LoveAmore
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#100
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#100
(Original post by looloo2134)
That is greater London areas for example like Hillingdon were most children are white. In Hackney a higher crime area for example most children are black very few are white and their a lot of older white people and Jewish people.
I understand what you are saying to some extent, but I think that there is still a degree of racism involved. Why are police in those areas to stop and search people anyway? Partially because of crime but there is a lot of crime in other areas of London too
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