Plans to scrap council tax

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Quady
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#21
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#21
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Of course you love it, because it'll hit the middle class and rich hardest, something which you absolutely love, because you're indoctrinated to think that the rich owe more to society, which they don't.

In all seriousness though, the most damning part of my council tax bill, despite the constant rises over the last few years, is the 20% rise in payments to the police and crime commissioners who do the square root of **** all for anyone or anything in my area, and country wide. If they want to scrap something, they should start with those show ponies.
Hi

fyi Police and Crime Commissioners aren't country wide, a lot of the country yes. But my council tax bill has no money towards them.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
Let's say you're right, are you going to use physical valuations for properties which haven't changed hands in over 25 years? Like my parents house was bought as a new build 27 years ago in April coming up.
I'm not proposing I know the answers to all, I'm saying the cost to revalue every property in the UK isn't a real problem.

In reality you parents house which was built 27 years ago will be the same as another house on the same estate, meaning estimated values will able to be worked out from that. For more bespoke properties that haven't been sold since records was bring kept, well that's when a valuation will be needed.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Calibrated.)
Have you already forgotten the utter cluster**** the government caused by the algorithm it used to estimate grades over the summer?

Writing an algorithm is easy. Writing an accurate and robust one is hard.

Anyway, I don't see the national property tax proposals happening in their current form. The shires will be up in arms.
Absolutely not and who cares about the "shires" complaining they need to pay true fair share.

Absolutely I have not forgotten about the incompetence of our government regards the student grades allocation, however house prices and examination results are completely incompatible comparisons, not remotely similar.

People get all lovely doves with property because it's their home and personal to them, so they think it's more unique than it is. Maybe because I own several properties as a business but really there is nothing special about property, it's very simple in most cases. Rough valuations are not hard to achieve and for few times the algorithm gets a property wrong, that's when appeal and a real valuation can be made to correct the problem.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Of course you love it, because it'll hit the middle class and rich hardest, something which you absolutely love, because you're indoctrinated to think that the rich owe more to society, which they don't.

In all seriousness though, the most damning part of my council tax bill, despite the constant rises over the last few years, is the 20% rise in payments to the police and crime commissioners who do the square root of **** all for anyone or anything in my area, and country wide. If they want to scrap something, they should start with those show ponies.
Well i thought according to you and your fellow amigos claim im a hard right wing tory nowadays? I was mearly pointing out it isn't a very "Tory" policy to undertake, which has been exactly my point I've been making to your partisan friends for months, this isn't a hard right wing Tory party in anyway!

In all seriousness though im not "indoctrinated" to think anything, I'm not a poster on here where you know what I think on a subject because I'm indoctrinated to a political faction parroting the views of chosen political gods with no personal thought. Unlike your fellow amigos who I dont have to ask their views on any subject whatsoever because I already know.

You need to get money from people whom have money to spread services and opportunities more equally throughout society, that's just common sense and moral decency. Hoarding money and staving opportunity, creating slums and crime ridden no go areas because its "unfair" to tax someone more pound notes while all real factors like 'disposable income' is just selfish nonsense. The irony of using the word "fair" to describe this is missed by the hard right.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Quady)
Hi

fyi Police and Crime Commissioners aren't country wide, a lot of the country yes. But my council tax bill has no money towards them.
Good for you. I can't remember the exact amount I pay, but I do remember that it's gone up 20% this year. Farcical.
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Well i thought according to you and your fellow amigos claim im a hard right wing tory nowadays? I was mearly pointing out it isn't a very "Tory" policy to undertake, which has been exactly my point I've been making to your partisan friends for months, this isn't a hard right wing Tory party in anyway!

In all seriousness though im not "indoctrinated" to think anything, I'm not a poster on here where you know what I think on a subject because I'm indoctrinated to a political faction parroting the views of chosen political gods with no personal thought. Unlike your fellow amigos who I dont have to ask their views on any subject whatsoever because I already know.

You need to get money from people whom have money to spread services and opportunities more equally throughout society, that's just common sense and moral decency. Hoarding money and staving opportunity, creating slums and crime ridden no go areas because its "unfair" to tax someone more pound notes while all real factors like 'disposable income' is just selfish nonsense. The irony of using the word "fair" to describe this is missed by the hard right.
'Need to get money from people mom have money' is the whole issue here, and it is exactly the reason why I completely understand why multi-millionaires tax dodge, stick their money through the caymans, or move their assets offshore. What is completely missed by the left is that generally, over a certain income level, which I'd probably pitch about £500,000ish, those earners costs the state less than their counterparts under that. Their children will go to private schools, they'll have private healthcare. The rich, owe us absolutely nothing. They in essence actually take less from society than the poor, who tend to be state funded.

Secondly, the issue with this policy is that it does what every single left wing policy does, and that is stifle the want to succeed. Earn more? We'll tax you more! Want a big house? You'll pay more tax for it! By the left's logic we'll all be renting 1 bed flats, driving a Dacia.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
'Need to get money from people mom have money' is the whole issue here, and it is exactly the reason why I completely understand why multi-millionaires tax dodge, stick their money through the caymans, or move their assets offshore. What is completely missed by the left is that generally, over a certain income level, which I'd probably pitch about £500,000ish, those earners costs the state less than their counterparts under that. Their children will go to private schools, they'll have private healthcare. The rich, owe us absolutely nothing. They in essence actually take less from society than the poor, who tend to be state funded.
Wrong!! 100% wrong this isnt, absolutely isnt, missed by the left at all!
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Secondly, the issue with this policy is that it does what every single left wing policy does, and that is stifle the want to succeed. Earn more? We'll tax you more! Want a big house? You'll pay more tax for it! By the left's logic we'll all be renting 1 bed flats, driving a Dacia.
This really is nonsense, If you actually thought about what you are saying with a ounce of objective thought you would see gaping holes in this hypothesis. Do you really need me to rip this to bits? honestly....

But at least you finally admit this Tory government are considering and actioning some left wing policies, which proves my point to you and your allies fallacious. This isn't a hard right Tory government, which was a sweetener to the bitter bill of voting for them for many lefties like me whom did in 2019.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Wrong!! 100% wrong this isnt, absolutely isnt, missed by the left at all!

This really is nonsense, If you actually thought about what you are saying with a ounce of objective thought you would see gaping holes in this hypothesis. Do you really need me to rip this to bits? honestly....

But at least you finally admit this Tory government are considering and actioning some left wing policies, which proves my point to you and your allies fallacious. This isn't a hard right Tory government, which was a sweetener to the bitter bill of voting for them for many lefties like me whom did in 2019.
If it isn't missed by the left, do you believe it's fair that those who use government funded services the least, pay the most for it, compared to the poor, vagrant and workshy?

It's not nonsense at all, if you could, and I quote 'rip this to bits' you would have done so already.

It pretty basic really. Those who aspire in life are charged much more than those who don't.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
If it isn't missed by the left
What's really missed is the "left" are not in power and haven't been in power, which was my original point you took issue with. This isn't a typical tory government policy it's more closer to what I (a leftie) would do.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Why do you believe it's fair that those who use government funded services the least, pay the most for it, compared to the poor, vagrant and workshy?
I've never said it is fair, quite the opposite and you know this full well. You are being completely disingenuous. Anyone whom wishes proof of this read this thread

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...6431196&page=6
Like you pursuit for fairness when actual fairness isn't remotely on your agenda. What's more unfair baby 1) wants for nothing, lives a full life and dies in luxury and pays a lot of tax or baby 2) wants for everything, lives a short miserable life, dies in poverty but pays no tax?

What baby would you think had the most unfair life 1 or 2? Answer please dont just waffle on and insult me
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It's not nonsense at all, if you could, and I quote 'rip this to bits' you would have done so already.
Wow, just wow! You actually think that by paying a percentage of excessive wealth in tax to help everyone will result in everyone renting 1 bed flats, driving a Dacia? :rolleyes:

What a drama queen, dry your eyes at the thought of taxation payments and ask yourself why the "wealth creators/job creators" have actively created so many jobs that pay so poorly that even your own party have woke up to the fact the state needs to subsidise people benefits just so they can pay rent and buy food because the wealthy have screwed over everyone so badly.

As I said (which you ignored) i was correct that the current Tory party are not hard right. The current modern right Tory party are partaking in corporate socialism to cover up the failings of the hard rights damaging polices.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It pretty basic really. Those who aspire in life are charged much more than those who don't.
No it isnt, those whom benefit the most in life pay the most to allow other less fortunate some opportunities to be self sufficient and gain the self pride from being independent and making real money for your employer. Your argument relies on victim blaming the poor and victimising the rich, when it is the wealthy who have brought all the advantages to keep themselves wealthy and while holding others down.
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L i b
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I suppose something closer to a Land Value Tax approach is fairer and more reasonable. I'd still be mildly pissed off if my tax went up, given that my use of local services is almost entirely restricted to the roads and the bins.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by L i b)
I suppose something closer to a Land Value Tax approach is fairer and more reasonable. I'd still be mildly pissed off if my tax went up, given that my use of local services is almost entirely restricted to the roads and the bins.
So you have opted out of healthcare if you get Ill or unemployment cover if the worst was to happen, you repair your own pathways cut the grass on your local roads and maintain lighting around your local ereas,

Local services are not about what you use, it's about what is supplied, we all benefit from local services. If we make poorer areas less poor everyone will benefit, it's such short sighted right wing Tory veiw of the world, I'm alright jack I have bupa **** you.
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Quady
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'm not proposing I know the answers to all, I'm saying the cost to revalue every property in the UK isn't a real problem.

In reality you parents house which was built 27 years ago will be the same as another house on the same estate, meaning estimated values will able to be worked out from that. For more bespoke properties that haven't been sold since records was bring kept, well that's when a valuation will be needed.
Sweet, it'll be treated as if it were one of the other two on the estate of almost the same design but without the damp problem (not making that up). Also good as my parents place has the countryside view the other two lack (also not made up).

Not that revaluation is the issue here, its just politics, the lisers will be more annoyed with the government that the winners.
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Quady
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Good for you. I can't remember the exact amount I pay, but I do remember that it's gone up 20% this year. Farcical.
4.64% here, can never remember if the water rates go up by the same.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by Quady)
Sweet, it'll be treated as if it were one of the other two on the estate of almost the same design but without the damp problem (not making that up). Also good as my parents place has the countryside view the other two lack (also not made up).

Not that revaluation is the issue here, its just politics, the lisers will be more annoyed with the government that the winners.
most can be accessed on Google maps, damp is an temporary issue that can fixed reasonably easy... however sometimes costly. Issues like damp are addressed in full valuations.

At the end of the day we are talking about rough valuations for taxation purposes.
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imlikeahermit
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(Original post by Burton Bridge)
What's really missed is the "left" are not in power and haven't been in power, which was my original point you took issue with. This isn't a typical tory government policy it's more closer to what I (a leftie) would do.



I've never said it is fair, quite the opposite and you know this full well. You are being completely disingenuous. Anyone whom wishes proof of this read this thread

https://www.thestudentroom.co.uk/sho...6431196&page=6
Like you pursuit for fairness when actual fairness isn't remotely on your agenda. What's more unfair baby 1) wants for nothing, lives a full life and dies in luxury and pays a lot of tax or baby 2) wants for everything, lives a short miserable life, dies in poverty but pays no tax?

What baby would you think had the most unfair life 1 or 2? Answer please dont just waffle on and insult me
Doesn't matter if you never said it was fair, the fact that you agree with such progressive taxation is a testament to your support of the unfairness shown towards the rich. Your hatred for the idea of a flat tax is also part of this.

The simple point is here, that those who are high earning tend to actually take a hell of a lot less from society than those who are poor do.

Of course this isn't a typical tory policy because this is only a Conservative government by name, not by policy. This is precisely the reason why Labour we're bullied away from the last election, because the Conservatives have the middle ground by the balls.

Wow, just wow! You actually think that by paying a percentage of excessive wealth in tax to help everyone will result in everyone renting 1 bed flats, driving a Dacia? :rolleyes:

What a drama queen, dry your eyes at the thought of taxation payments and ask yourself why the "wealth creators/job creators" have actively created so many jobs that pay so poorly that even your own party have woke up to the fact the state needs to subsidise people benefits just so they can pay rent and buy food because the wealthy have screwed over everyone so badly.

As I said (which you ignored) i was correct that the current Tory party are not hard right. The current modern right Tory party are partaking in corporate socialism to cover up the failings of the hard rights damaging polices.
It's a case of war the left believes, not me. Tax the rich, and tax them good.

Left wing policies keep people in poverty, right wing policies give them encouragement to bring themselves out of it. It is absolutely not the states fault if people can't get their act together and start acting with morality or pride in what they're doing. But of course, that's what left wing policies do; take all self respect and self worth away from people and make them believe that striving for nothing is acceptable.

No it isnt, those whom benefit the most in life pay the most to allow other less fortunate some opportunities to be self sufficient and gain the self pride from being independent and making real money for your employer. Your argument relies on victim blaming the poor and victimising the rich, when it is the wealthy who have brought all the advantages to keep themselves wealthy and while holding others down.
********. The rich are absolutely not there to prop up the poor. In terms of the actual issue at hand here, in terms of council tax, are you suggesting that those who live in bigger houses use the roads more, or use more street lighting? Those who benefit the most in life, of their own making owe the less fortunate absolutely nothing.
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Burton Bridge
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Doesn't matter if you never said it was fair, the fact that you agree with such progressive taxation is a testament to your support of the unfairness shown towards the rich. Your hatred for the idea of a flat tax is also part of this.
Of course it matters, it matters because if you are not attacking the crooks of what I say and believe you are not making a valid point. In effect you are strawmaning me which us why you (as usual) avoid my points and questions.

So which baby 1 or 2... you pick to enable me too understand what you think on this topic, because i debate the point not the person. So dont waffle, dont avoid, dont post back a lying "haven't read/without read" answer which baby had the most unfair life/treatment.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
The simple point is here, that those who are high earning tend to actually take a hell of a lot less from society than those who are poor do.
Key word in that is simple, life isn't simple. Define taking? Why dont they take? Why dont they use public services? Are we going to have a deep one here or are you going to back away from it?

(Original post by imlikeahermit)

Of course this isn't a typical tory policy because this is only a Conservative government by name, not by policy. This is precisely the reason why Labour we're bullied away from the last election, because the Conservatives have the middle ground by the balls.
At last so you finally admit what you and your two disciples have been suggesting I'm right wing for reluctantly voting for a middle ground party is nonsense. Got there in the end

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It's a case of war the left believes, not me. Tax the rich, and tax them good.
It isn't war at all, it's about providing a fairer and more balanced society for the majority of people.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)

Left wing policies keep people in poverty, right wing policies give them encouragement to bring themselves out of it.
Well thats not what the evidence suggests.

(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It is absolutely not the states fault if people can't get their act together and start acting with morality or pride in what they're doing. But of course, that's what left wing policies do; take all self respect and self worth away from people and make them believe that striving for nothing is acceptable.
You have just been agrueing for state control to protect the poor in recent topics where you parroted remain tribal tropes, now it's not the states fault?

When you search deeper, free yourself from your entrentched thoughts you might find it isn't the poor's fault for being poor. Those with wealth hold power.... see where I'm going?

(Original post by imlikeahermit)

********. The rich are absolutely not there to prop up the poor. In terms of the actual issue at hand here, in terms of council tax, are you suggesting that those who live in bigger houses use the roads more, or use more street lighting? Those who benefit the most in life, of their own making owe the less fortunate absolutely nothing.
No I'm saying those whom benefit the most in society pay the most to allow other less fortunate some opportunities to be self sufficient and gain the self pride from being independent and making real money for your employer. Your argument relies on victim blaming the poor and victimising the rich, when it is the wealthy who have brought all the advantages to keep themselves wealthy and while holding others down
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
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