Christians Hearing The Qur'an For The First Time

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Zamestaneh
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#1
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#1
Assalaamu 'Aleykum/Shalom Aleykhem/Peace be upon you

I thought this would be an interesting idea just because there is some shared commonality between Islam and Christianity - we all believe in God, and we all believe in Jesus (Isa), Mary (Maryam), John The Baptist (Yahya), Zachariah (Zakariyyah), Abraham (Ibrahim), Moses (Musa), Isaac (Ishaq), Ishmael (Ismail), Jacob (Yaqub), Noah (Nuh), Joseph (Yusuf), Aaron (Harun), Adam, Elijah (Elias), and so on, peace be upon them all, but obviously on specifics we will disagree.

That said, I was just wondering what your impressions are hearing the Qur'an being recited for the first time (if indeed this is the first time you have heard it). It doesn't mean you will agree with what is being said in these videoes in totality, but maybe some things will resonate, such as rejecting idol worship and accepting God as our Lord and Authority.

Maybe this thread could serve as some kind of bridge to help us understand one another better


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Zamestaneh
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If anyone bothers listening to this (I know it is long), they may notice the significance of it. Throughout the chapter, Allah (God) emphasises the missions of various messengers and how they all came with the same message - that God is One and to worship alone and obey Him, and to abandon their grave sins and polytheism. Of the messengers' stories in this chapter, it goes into greater detail about Moses PBUH than others, and it emphasises the fake magicians of Pharoah vs. the miracles of God. The signifance of this story, is that a parallel is drawn using a ring structure - at the end of the chapter, it describes Muhammad PBUH coming with the Qur'an, and it mentions the poets. At the time of the Pharoah, the fake magicians deceived the people but they were bested by the limitless power of God; likewise, the Qur'an is a spoken revelation which could not be immitated by man for various reasons, and it showed the poets of the time of Muhammad PBUH, who like the fake magicians used to deceive the people of their time (and like how the media are the liars of today that mislead the masses) that they could not best the words of God, and it emphasises his message is the same as the messengers before him.
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heldbygrace
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I like the idea of building some bridges here. In the same way and Muslims who have never heard the Bible before, here is a well-known chapter of the Bible, often read at Christian weddings. I like it because it shows how much our God loves us and how we as his people, though we have great gifts, and great supernatural powers and attributions, are absolutely nothing without love. Love is the fabric of the universe.
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heldbygrace
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I also have a question for you, does the Islamic faith contain any singing at all? I know you recite things together but I've never heard anyone talk about Islamic songs. If you don't is there a reason why? Singing and worship songs is a massive part of Christianity, especially with the modern charismatic movement, and I couldn't imagine worshipping without it. I think generally the Qur'an is most similar in the Biblical old testament, with the Torah, (correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't contain much similarity to the new testament) and actually over the Bible, the most amount of songs and examples of people worshipping with music is in the old testament. For example, when Moses and the Israelites fled the Egyptians they sang songs after, namely the song of Moses and Miriam. Therefore, I guess its a bit strange that Christianity and Islam differ in this way?
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Aloe Striata
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#5
(Original post by MiriamL)
I also have a question for you, does the Islamic faith contain any singing at all? I know you recite things together but I've never heard anyone talk about Islamic songs. If you don't is there a reason why? Singing and worship songs is a massive part of Christianity, especially with the modern charismatic movement, and I couldn't imagine worshipping without it. I think generally the Qur'an is most similar in the Biblical old testament, with the Torah, (correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't contain much similarity to the new testament) and actually over the Bible, the most amount of songs and examples of people worshipping with music is in the old testament. For example, when Moses and the Israelites fled the Egyptians they sang songs after, namely the song of Moses and Miriam. Therefore, I guess its a bit strange that Christianity and Islam differ in this way?
We do have nasheeds (Arabic for songs, basically)! But nasheeds are a cappella, as islamically we aren't allowed to use musical instruments
Last edited by Aloe Striata; 1 year ago
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heldbygrace
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(Original post by ilovephysmath)
We do have nasheeds (Arabic for songs, basically)! But nasheeds are a cappella, as islamically we aren't allowed to use musical instruments
Ah that’s cool. Is there a reason why you can’t use instruments? Are these a large part of services (I don’t know what you call them, like times when you go to your Mosque) or small. Depending on the Church you may sing between 4-8 songs, normally lasting between 3-5 minutes each, so it’s quite a large part of ours! Most Churches also have a service normally once a month which is entirely dedicated to singing.
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Aloe Striata
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(Original post by MiriamL)
Ah that’s cool. Is there a reason why you can’t use instruments? Are these a large part of services (I don’t know what you call them, like times when you go to your Mosque) or small. Depending on the Church you may sing between 4-8 songs, normally lasting between 3-5 minutes each, so it’s quite a large part of ours! Most Churches also have a service normally once a month which is entirely dedicated to singing.
No, we don't sing in mosques, nasheeds are just for the pleasure of listening to them and/or singing
We recite the Qur'an during prayers and depending on the reciter the tone varies. Some people make it very melodious, others don't, it's an art in its own way Practicing it is just like any other vocal training, I do it too. And as I was saying, since we recite the Qur'an in every prayer and in three out of the five daily prayers it's recited out loud, we spend a lot of time reciting it too
Musical instruments are forbidden because they are thought to distract a person religiously, and are thought to be of no spiritual benefit. Also, as someone who used to sing as a kid, I know for sure that singing with instruments is definitely a lot more pleasant to listen to than a cappella (generally). It's thought to be a waste of time and in our religion we are encouraged to not waste time, rather spend it on something worthwhile (from the practical perspective) and/or worship. Hope this clears up some stuff
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heldbygrace
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(Original post by ilovephysmath)
No, we don't sing in mosques, nasheeds are just for the pleasure of listening to them and/or singing
We recite the Qur'an during prayers and depending on the reciter the tone varies. Some people make it very melodious, others don't, it's an art in its own way Practicing it is just like any other vocal training, I do it too. And as I was saying, since we recite the Qur'an in every prayer and in three out of the five daily prayers it's recited out loud, we spend a lot of time reciting it too
Musical instruments are forbidden because they are thought to distract a person religiously, and are thought to be of no spiritual benefit. Also, as someone who used to sing as a kid, I know for sure that singing with instruments is definitely a lot more pleasant to listen to than a cappella (generally). It's thought to be a waste of time and in our religion we are encouraged to not waste time, rather spend it on something worthwhile (from the practical perspective) and/or worship. Hope this clears up some stuff
Ah ok, that's cool to know. I totally get why they're forbidden, it makes sense.
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Zamestaneh
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#9
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#9
(Original post by MiriamL)
I also have a question for you, does the Islamic faith contain any singing at all? I know you recite things together but I've never heard anyone talk about Islamic songs. If you don't is there a reason why? Singing and worship songs is a massive part of Christianity, especially with the modern charismatic movement, and I couldn't imagine worshipping without it. I think generally the Qur'an is most similar in the Biblical old testament, with the Torah, (correct me if I'm wrong but it doesn't contain much similarity to the new testament) and actually over the Bible, the most amount of songs and examples of people worshipping with music is in the old testament. For example, when Moses and the Israelites fled the Egyptians they sang songs after, namely the song of Moses and Miriam. Therefore, I guess its a bit strange that Christianity and Islam differ in this way?
The other user answered well but just to add my tuppence worth as well:

Ultimately Muslims believe that all messengers came with the message of belief in God, how to worship Him, and the Law. Where people went astray was with regards these 3 things - they either corrupted their belief in God by associating partners with Him, they corrupted their worship e.g. made idols of God, or they abandoned/changed the Law, thus God either destroyed those nations or sent more messengers to renew the message.

With regards to our acts of worship as Muslims, we believe that any act of worship that brings us closer to God was taught to us by the messenger Muhammad PBUH, and if there was any goodness in a thing, he preceded us in it. He also very strongly warned against "innovation" in the religion, which means to add beliefs or acts of worship not from the religion as these things will take us to the Hellfire - these additional things may start off small, but the plot of Satan always starts off with a good intention that gets corrupted into something much larger, thus that is how former nations fell in the eyes of God before us. For example, in our books we are told that the people of Noah PBUH initially created statues of men that reminded them if God, and when they looked on them, they felt closeness to Him. Over time, Satan corrupted their good intentions and the people began devoting acts of worship to them and took them as gods, thus they became idolators.
To avoid this, we (traditionalist) Muslims are very strict in not adding to Islam which is not from it. So with regards to songs, they are allowed generally (without instruments) but they cannot be used as a form of worship and encourage others to sing with the intention that we hope that singing it will be written as good deeds for us, as Muhammad PBUH never used singing as a form of worship. People used to sing and recite poetry in the time of Muhammad PBUH but it was to lift spirits or in times of celebration of specific events, but it was not done ritually.

This is not to say singing was never a form of worship, but it has not been legislated for the Muslims so we avoid it. What was permissible or prescribed for the people before us was for them and their time, but we must follow the messenger sent to us, otherwise if we stick to what was sent before out of stubborness, then that is rejecting the will of God out of envy for previous nations and messengers.

That said, and this is kind of a side point just more extra info but we know that the Psalms (we call it Zabur) of King David PBUH are songs, and we believe that when we have been admitted to Heaven, there will come a day when God will gather all the inhabitants of Paradise in His presence, and David PBUH will sing the Psalms in a pleasant and melodious voice, and God will lift the veil of light between us and Him so we can behold Him in a way that befits His magesty, a sight which no one has ever seen and is the greatest attainment of Heaven.
Last edited by Zamestaneh; 1 year ago
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Aloe Striata
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#10
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#10
(Original post by Zamestaneh)
The other user answered well but just to add my tuppence worth as well:

Ultimately Muslims believe that all messengers came with the message of belief in God, how to worship Him, and the Law. Where people went astray was with regards these 3 things - they either corrupted their belief in God by associating partners with Him, they corrupted their worship e.g. made idols of God, or they abandoned/changed the Law, thus God either destroyed those nations or sent more messengers to renew the message.

With regards to our acts of worship as Muslims, we believe that any act of worship that brings us closer to God was taught to us by the messenger Muhammad PBUH, and if there was any goodness in a thing, he preceded us in it. He also very strongly warned against "innovation" in the religion, which means to add beliefs or acts of worship not from the religion as these things will take us to the Hellfire - these additional things may start off small, but the plot of Satan always starts off with a good intention that gets corrupted into something much larger, thus that is how former nations fell in the eyes of God before us. For example, in our books we are told that the people of Noah PBUH initially created statues of men that reminded them if God, and when they looked on them, they felt closeness to Him. Over time, Satan corrupted their good intentions and the people began devoting acts of worship to them and took them as gods, thus they became idolators.
To avoid this, we (traditionalist) Muslims are very strict in not adding to Islam which is not from it. So with regards to songs, they are allowed generally (without instruments) but they cannot be used as a form of worship and encourage others to sing with the intention that we hope that singing it will be written as good deeds for us, as Muhammad PBUH never used singing as a form of worship. People used to sing and recite poetry in the time of Muhammad PBUH but it was to lift spirits or in times of celebration of specific events, but it was not done ritually.

This is not to say singing was never a form of worship, but it has not been legislated for the Muslims so we avoid it. What was permissible or prescribed for the people before us was for them and their time, but we must follow the messenger sent to us, otherwise if we stick to what was sent before out of stubborness, then that is rejecting the will of God out of envy for previous nations and messengers.

That said, and this is kind of a side point just more extra info but we know that the Psalms (we call it Zabur) of King David PBUH are songs, and we believe that when we have been admitted to Heaven, there will come a day when God will gather all the inhabitants of Paradise in His presence, and David PBUH will sing the Psalms in a pleasant and melodious voice, and God will lift the veil of light between us and Him so we can behold Him in a way that befits His magesty, a sight which no one has ever seen and is the greatest attainment of Heaven.
Couldn't have said it better
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John316NOW
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#11
What do you want me to gain from this? I have heard recitals before, cool.

You believe in majority, but not all prophets.

You believe the Q'uran is Allah's words.

You believe it wasn't created, so the Q'uran was always existing, since its Allah's words.

So was Allah and Q'uran existing eternally together? 2 Distinct beings?

You believe in Spirit of Allah.

This is a seperate being or IS IT ALLAH?

Spirit of Allah + Word of Allah + Allah = 3

OR MAYBE SPIRIT OF ALLAH + WORD OF ALLAH + ALLAH = 1 Because Allah is one.

God + God's Holy Spirit + The Word of God (IN FLESH) = 3

OR MAYBE GOD + GOD'S HOLY SPIRIT + THE WORLD OF GOD (IN FLESH) = 1 Because God is one.

You understand?
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heartbrokenbish
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I have been questioning my religion for a while. I believe that there's a God out here somewhere but I'm not sure. I do not believe in Jesus. So I'm not a Christian. When I listen to sermons I don't feel a certain way. It bores the hell out of me and 99% of the time I fall asleep in church. But the hymns of the Quran are much more heavenly and I feel God washing his words over me. It's so much more heavenly. I don't even know how to explain the feeling. I feel tears shed almost out of joy.
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John316NOW
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You worship Allah

I worship God

His name is above all other names

Allah = The God

God = Generic title for THE higher power, though God is known as the God of Jacob, Isaac and Abraham.

God = Elohim = Adonai = YHWH = el shaddai = eloi and more. <-- these are titles of God. He is who he is.

You believe in ruqya

I believe in Casting out unclean spirits in the name of God.

Why do unclean spirits obey, both Allah and Jesus? Unless one is real and another fake? tell me.

Allah of the Q'uran put deception on the cross, allowing apostles to be confused. Is this good?

Jesus around until around 33AD (forgive me if i'm wrong)

Muhammad born in 570AD, so OVER 500 years since Jesus.

Islam claim the Bible + Jewish books are corrupted.

The Jews recite their books 24/7, so it can't be corrupted without anyone noticing.

The bible includes Jewish (Tanakh) books and the gospel. The Tanakh is not corrupted, so you accept the old testament is 100% correct?

People claim Muhammad is prophesied about in new testament, e.g "I will send you a comfortor a helper"

This refers to Holy Spirit, not Muhammad.

Blessings
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John316NOW
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(Original post by heartbrokenbish)
I have been questioning my religion for a while. I believe that there's a God out here somewhere but I'm not sure. I do not believe in Jesus. So I'm not a Christian. When I listen to sermons I don't feel a certain way. It bores the hell out of me and 99% of the time I fall asleep in church. But the hymns of the Quran are much more heavenly and I feel God washing his words over me. It's so much more heavenly. I don't even know how to explain the feeling. I feel tears shed almost out of joy.
Interesting. Are you an emotional persion naturally? I.e do you weep when watching films like Titanic?

Do the hymns of the Bible have the same effect?

I ask this because we shouldn't base our faith solely on feelings. e.g I can listen to a hindu doing their ritual 'singing' and feel touched by it. Though I don't believe in Hinduism
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