username5161072
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#81
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#81
(Original post by glassalice)
Probably not.
Because it would be a breach of the man's rights if he was to be searched by a women or someone that he believed to be a women.
That’s consistent. It’s difficult to say since they’re in their own category. They should be able to do their job without restrictions.

BTW, I appreciate your reasonable approach to arguments. Having an argument that doesn’t devolve into ad hominems is refreshing for once.
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anarchism101
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#82
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#82
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Here's a question. Someone suddenly decides they are identifying as a female, and they absolutely wipe the floor with all the female athletes, because of their genetics. How is that fair?
Except they couldn't do that "suddenly". Women's professional athletics has hormone quotas for eligibility - for everyone. If you want to compete in a women's athletics event, you have to prove that your testosterone levels are below 5 nmol/l (for comparison, top male athletes often have levels of over 20 nmol/l, and even men with low testosterone usually don't drop below 8 or 9) and have been consistently for the past six months.
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anarchism101
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#83
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#83
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Secondly, I would have no issue with that because they are BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE and don't have ridiculously high testosterone levels due to the fact that they are not a biological male.
Did you miss all the controversy there's been in professional athletics over "biologically female" women who do have abnormally high testosterone levels for a woman, like Caster Semenya, Dutee Chand, etc?
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anarchism101
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#84
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#84
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Both sides have serious problems but nobody wants to resolve the problems on their own side.
You're saying the protesters writing "**** Biden" graffiti are on Biden's side? :confused:
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paul514
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#85
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#85
(Original post by anarchism101)
Except they couldn't do that "suddenly". Women's professional athletics has hormone quotas for eligibility - for everyone. If you want to compete in a women's athletics event, you have to prove that your testosterone levels are below 5 nmol/l (for comparison, top male athletes often have levels of over 20 nmol/l, and even men with low testosterone usually don't drop below 8 or 9) and have been consistently for the past six months.
Ok so they take the drugs to lower the levels to meet the rules.....
They still have all the bodily advantages of being a man
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Wired_1800
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#86
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#86
(Original post by anarchism101)
You're saying the protesters writing "**** Biden" graffiti are on Biden's side? :confused:
I don't know whose side they are on, but i know both the political left and right have problems.
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QE2
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#87
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#87
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
It is absolutely not the general consensus at all. I would expect that it will also get worse when transgender athletes in schools start sweeping all the events.
Again, try reading the actual Executive Order rather than just the outraged frothings of the right. It makes no mention of the issue you are getting upset about (as if you actually care about schoolgirl sports :rolleyes:).
No rational person would object to the EO that Biden signed. (https://www.whitehouse.gov/briefing-...l-orientation/)

Secondly, I would have no issue with that because they are BIOLOGICALLY FEMALE and don't have ridiculously high testosterone levels due to the fact that they are not a biological male.
So you don't have an issue with women in sports who have far superior attributes than their competitors, in principle - it's only when those women were born men that you throw a wobbler.

Great stuff. But I'm afraid that you're argument of "anyone who disagrees with transgender legislation is a transphobe" is the flawed one here.
Anyone who opposes legislation that prevents discrimination against trans-people is probably a transphobe - yes.
Last edited by QE2; 1 month ago
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QE2
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#88
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#88
(Original post by paul514)
They still have all the bodily advantages of being a man
Indeed

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QE2
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#89
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(Original post by Wired_1800)
I don't know whose side they are on, but i know both the political left and right have problems.
But in the US, the choice is essentially between the centre-right and the far-right - and one has demonstrably more problems than the other.
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Wired_1800
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#90
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(Original post by QE2)
But in the US, the choice is essentially between the centre-right and the far-right - and one has demonstrably more problems than the other.
Yes, that has historically been the case imho. However, over recent years, there has been the gradual emergency of the far left that is trying to bring a counter-balance which has led to these issues of American identity.

Analysts are predicting a real shift towards the left during Biden’s Presidency with the likes of VP Harris, Sec. Janet Yellen, Sec. Pete Buttigieg, even Senator Sanders is Head of influential budget committee etc, but the problem is whether the traditionally hypocritical Dems that has held the Party hostage will allow that to happen.
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QE2
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#91
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#91
(Original post by Wired_1800)
Yes, that has historically been the case imho. However, over recent years, there has been the gradual emergency of the far left that is trying to bring a counter-balance which has led to these issues of American identity.
In activism and protest, perhaps, but not in politics.

Analysts are predicting a real shift towards the left during Biden’s Presidency with the likes of VP Harris, Sec. Janet Yellen, Sec. Pete Buttigieg, even Senator Sanders is Head of influential budget committee etc, but the problem is whether the traditionally hypocritical Dems that has held the Party hostage will allow that to happen.
While we can only hope this transpires, it is still just a shift to the middle rather than the left.
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Wired_1800
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#92
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#92
(Original post by QE2)
In activism and protest, perhaps, but not in politics.


While we can only hope this transpires, it is still just a shift to the middle rather than the left.
Alright that’s fair.

A shift to the middle will be fine because the US has been shifting farther to the right in recent years.

By the time Rep AOC becomes President, the US may be completely different to Trump’s America.
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anarchism101
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#93
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#93
(Original post by paul514)
Ok so they take the drugs to lower the levels to meet the rules.....
They still have all the bodily advantages of being a man
Depends on the event. If you're a long-distance runner, having more upper body mass than you need is a hindrance.

But more significantly - if it's so easy, where are all these trans women supposedly dominating women's sports? These have been the rules for nearly two decades now, yet we're still yet to see a single trans athlete even compete at the Olympics, never mind win a medal. The controversies, whenever they appear, are almost always over athletes who are competing noticeably below the top level of their sport, and who don't dominate even at that level.
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imlikeahermit
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#94
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#94
(Original post by paul514)
Ok so they take the drugs to lower the levels to meet the rules.....
They still have all the bodily advantages of being a man
That is entirely my point. Couldn't agree more.


If the left wing nut jobs in this thread cannot see that this at least threatens female sport in schools I don't even know how to address that level of stupidity. It's the ideal opportunity for someone like Rachel McKinnon who was failing in life, but realised that he/she could succeed on the cycling scene, given that they were twice the size of female athletes in the same category. Cant believe some in this thread are actively encouraging an unfair playing field.
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anarchism101
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#95
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#95
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
If the left wing nut jobs in this thread cannot see that this at least threatens female sport in schools I don't even know how to address that level of stupidity. It's the ideal opportunity for someone like Rachel McKinnon who was failing in life
She's a tenured professor at a university, is that your definition of "failing at life"? And she didn't start competing until several years after transitioning.

but realised that he/she could succeed on the cycling scene, given that they were twice the size of female athletes in the same category.
She competes in a veterans' category (i.e. not the pinnacle of the sport) and doesn't win most of the events she competes in. By her own admission, the competitors who finished behind her in those races she did win usually beat her.

The reality is that, if Rachel McKinnon had finished 2nd rather than 1st in the couple of races she won, you'd never have heard of her or even been aware that cycling competitions specifically for 35-44 year old women even existed.
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imlikeahermit
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#96
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#96
(Original post by anarchism101)
She's a tenured professor at a university, is that your definition of "failing at life"? And she didn't start competing until several years after transitioning.



She competes in a veterans' category (i.e. not the pinnacle of the sport) and doesn't win most of the events she competes in. By her own admission, the competitors who finished behind her in those races she did win usually beat her.

The reality is that, if Rachel McKinnon had finished 2nd rather than 1st in the couple of races she won, you'd never have heard of her or even been aware that cycling competitions specifically for 35-44 year old women even existed.
She had, and has a biological advantage over all of those athletes. The fact that she couldn’t win most of the time shows how much she was failing in sports. The fact that she won even once, against women who have quite possibly trained all their lives for that, is wrong. I mean, women’s sport is a load of rubbish anyway, I suppose this adds another dimension to it.

Laughable that you cannot see that Biden has basically abolished female only scholarships to please the woke left, who now will be at odds with feminists.

Transgender athletes should not take part in women’s sports. It isn’t fair.
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QE2
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#97
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#97
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
If the left wing nut jobs in this thread cannot see that this at least threatens female sport in schools I don't even know how to address that level of stupidity. It's the ideal opportunity for someone like Rachel McKinnon who was failing in life, but realised that he/she could succeed on the cycling scene, given that they were twice the size of female athletes in the same category. Cant believe some in this thread are actively encouraging an unfair playing field.
Is this the same Rachel McKinnon who was beaten by a cis-woman in the 500m final, and whose winning time in the 200m (both at veterans level) was slower than the overall 200m winner?
Pretty convincing argument!
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QE2
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#98
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#98
(Original post by anarchism101)
The reality is that, if Rachel McKinnon had finished 2nd rather than 1st in the couple of races she won, you'd never have heard of her or even been aware that cycling competitions specifically for 35-44 year old women even existed.
She did come 2nd in the 500m at the same event where she won the 200m, but these "women's rights supporters" fail to mention that.
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paul514
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#99
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Depends on the event. If you're a long-distance runner, having more upper body mass than you need is a hindrance.

But more significantly - if it's so easy, where are all these trans women supposedly dominating women's sports? These have been the rules for nearly two decades now, yet we're still yet to see a single trans athlete even compete at the Olympics, never mind win a medal. The controversies, whenever they appear, are almost always over athletes who are competing noticeably below the top level of their sport, and who don't dominate even at that level.
Do a google search I have seen numerous things in sports from weight lifting to UFC
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imlikeahermit
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#100
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#100
(Original post by paul514)
Do a google search I have seen numerous things in sports from weight lifting to UFC
If I remember USA powerlifting have a blanket ban on transgender women competing, quite rightly. For example you have ‘athletes’ like Laurel Hubbard, who already set records as a biological man, competing in the women’s field in New Zealand. She/he has a biological advantage over every single women in those fields. It’s not fair at all.
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