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Should we suspend Scottish devolution?
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Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
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#2
(Original post by fenton484)
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
I don't think you should Ban secession though. Banning ideas you don't like doesn't make them go away as the Biden administration is about to discover.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Agree that the Scottish assembly (plus the Welsh assembly) should be scrapped one of the many costly and divisive things we can thank Blair for.
I don't think you should Ban secession though. Banning ideas you don't like doesn't make them go away as the Biden administration is about to discover.
Agree that the Scottish assembly (plus the Welsh assembly) should be scrapped one of the many costly and divisive things we can thank Blair for.
I don't think you should Ban secession though. Banning ideas you don't like doesn't make them go away as the Biden administration is about to discover.
I don't give a f*ck about NI unifying with ireland, but scotland is an integral and historic region of our country and we should fight for it to stay in our union. if the welsh want to commit s*cde by declaring themselves independent i don't care either, it might make our country look a bit odd on the world map but I couldn't care for wales either.
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#4
(Original post by fenton484)
In basically any other country, secession is banned - no states can legally secede from the USA as far as I'm aware? Same with Germany too.
I don't give a **** about NI unifying with ireland, but scotland is an integral and historic region of our country and we should fight for it to stay in our union. if the welsh want to commit s*cde by declaring themselves independent i don't care either, it might make our country look a bit odd on the world map but I couldn't care for wales either.
In basically any other country, secession is banned - no states can legally secede from the USA as far as I'm aware? Same with Germany too.
I don't give a **** about NI unifying with ireland, but scotland is an integral and historic region of our country and we should fight for it to stay in our union. if the welsh want to commit s*cde by declaring themselves independent i don't care either, it might make our country look a bit odd on the world map but I couldn't care for wales either.
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#5
(Original post by fenton484)
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Also, removing Scottish devolution won't get rid of nationalism in Scotland and I'm willing to bet it'll encourage it. At the very least, Scottish people overwhelmingly want devolution.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Meh if they want to leave they can have at it. But if they do leave we should go scorched earth on them. Rebuild Hadrian's wall
Meh if they want to leave they can have at it. But if they do leave we should go scorched earth on them. Rebuild Hadrian's wall
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#7
(Original post by fenton484)
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Can't see that being popular with any MSP or Scottish MP other than Ms Ballantyne.
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#8
(Original post by fenton484)
In basically any other country, secession is banned - no states can legally secede from the USA as far as I'm aware? Same with Germany too.
I don't give a f*ck about NI unifying with ireland, but scotland is an integral and historic region of our country and we should fight for it to stay in our union. if the welsh want to commit s*cde by declaring themselves independent i don't care either, it might make our country look a bit odd on the world map but I couldn't care for wales either.
In basically any other country, secession is banned - no states can legally secede from the USA as far as I'm aware? Same with Germany too.
I don't give a f*ck about NI unifying with ireland, but scotland is an integral and historic region of our country and we should fight for it to stay in our union. if the welsh want to commit s*cde by declaring themselves independent i don't care either, it might make our country look a bit odd on the world map but I couldn't care for wales either.
Thats errrmmmmmm clear to follow.
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#9
(Original post by fenton484)
If they do leave I agree, we should make life as difficult as possible for them. Blockade their ports
If they do leave I agree, we should make life as difficult as possible for them. Blockade their ports
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#11
Equally, in the United States and a lot of other countries, disbanding state parliaments on a whim would seem a bit nonsensical.
Most of the Scottish nationalist rhetoric is designed for internal consumption. It's no surprise that the uptick in it recently has come at a time when the SNP's own civil war between the Salmond and Sturgeon camps is coming to a head. Those in power now want to firm up that they are bona fide nationalists - because one of the arguments against them that wins favour among their party membership is that they haven't actually done very much to advance The Cause in recent times.
Ultimately the UK Government's on pretty firm ground, saying another referendum will not be granted for the foreseeable future. That's a reasonable enough position. Equally Covid and a range of other issues have shown too how the UK Government pretty much withdrew from Scottish domestic policy after devolution - and the dangers of that. It also shows the weakness of the 1998 devolution settlement: it did not create a viable domestic single market (except by reference to EU rules), it failed to uphold the powers of local government in Scotland that have been chiselled away at for years and it allowed for a weak legislature with a strong executive.
Things are slowly on the turn - but even now, the response to a national emergency with no regard to borders should've been a UK one, not a "four nations" things.
Most of the Scottish nationalist rhetoric is designed for internal consumption. It's no surprise that the uptick in it recently has come at a time when the SNP's own civil war between the Salmond and Sturgeon camps is coming to a head. Those in power now want to firm up that they are bona fide nationalists - because one of the arguments against them that wins favour among their party membership is that they haven't actually done very much to advance The Cause in recent times.
Ultimately the UK Government's on pretty firm ground, saying another referendum will not be granted for the foreseeable future. That's a reasonable enough position. Equally Covid and a range of other issues have shown too how the UK Government pretty much withdrew from Scottish domestic policy after devolution - and the dangers of that. It also shows the weakness of the 1998 devolution settlement: it did not create a viable domestic single market (except by reference to EU rules), it failed to uphold the powers of local government in Scotland that have been chiselled away at for years and it allowed for a weak legislature with a strong executive.
Things are slowly on the turn - but even now, the response to a national emergency with no regard to borders should've been a UK one, not a "four nations" things.
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#12
"our union", thats certainly an interesting way to phrase it when you explicitly say Scots shouldnt have a say on it. It's people treating them like 2nd rate colonials who are lucky to have the benevolence of English administration that has led to the SNP doing so well.
As to your amusing assertion that since they previously had a referendum, im curious, are you deliberately ignoring the fact that the situation has fundamentally changed since then? Namely in Scotland being dragged out of Europe by an English nationalist project.
As to your amusing assertion that since they previously had a referendum, im curious, are you deliberately ignoring the fact that the situation has fundamentally changed since then? Namely in Scotland being dragged out of Europe by an English nationalist project.
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#13
Absolutely not. It’ll be very interesting to watch some of the same people who bleated on about Brexit being the will of the people bleat on about how Scotland should not be given another vote on independence, but then further how it should not be allowed. Given that the SNP are campaigning on the promise of a second referendum if their majority increases, or even stays the same that gives them a mandate to carry out that second referendum. I’m going to enjoy watching Boris try to stop this. If he does, it’ll fit in with his hypocritical position to most political issues at this present time.
I hope they get it though, I hope Scotland leave the union, go back to the EU and prosper. It’ll serve little England right.
I hope they get it though, I hope Scotland leave the union, go back to the EU and prosper. It’ll serve little England right.
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#14
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Meh if they want to leave they can have at it. But if they do leave we should go scorched earth on them. Rebuild Hadrian's wall
Meh if they want to leave they can have at it. But if they do leave we should go scorched earth on them. Rebuild Hadrian's wall
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#15
"It is unacceptable and naive for a state to leave a larger organisation of nations with a central governing body, in favour of independence and sovereignty and think they can be successful on their own. " - scream all the Brexiteers and Leave voters.
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#16
(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Absolutely not. It’ll be very interesting to watch some of the same people who bleated on about Brexit being the will of the people bleat on about how Scotland should not be given another vote on independence, but then further how it should not be allowed. Given that the SNP are campaigning on the promise of a second referendum if their majority increases, or even stays the same that gives them a mandate to carry out that second referendum. I’m going to enjoy watching Boris try to stop this. If he does, it’ll fit in with his hypocritical position to most political issues at this present time.
I hope they get it though, I hope Scotland leave the union, go back to the EU and prosper. It’ll serve little England right.
Absolutely not. It’ll be very interesting to watch some of the same people who bleated on about Brexit being the will of the people bleat on about how Scotland should not be given another vote on independence, but then further how it should not be allowed. Given that the SNP are campaigning on the promise of a second referendum if their majority increases, or even stays the same that gives them a mandate to carry out that second referendum. I’m going to enjoy watching Boris try to stop this. If he does, it’ll fit in with his hypocritical position to most political issues at this present time.
I hope they get it though, I hope Scotland leave the union, go back to the EU and prosper. It’ll serve little England right.
P.s brexit was the will of the people, that's why the people made it happen 😊
(Original post by fenton484)
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
Scotland's reckless SNP nationalists want to break up our union - despite having already had a vote on the matter of independence a mere 6 years ago. Surely we should suspend scottish devolution to prevent any chance of them getting independence? And surely sessession from the union should be, like, banned in the first place?
I'd like to see them get indyref2 but on a condition, that being legally binding that of they lose, they lose all devolved power back to Westminster. And then there is a further referendum for the England, Wales and NI to opt to close Holyrood down completely and replace with local governments like in England or remain as the status quo.. and Scottish only indyref3 before 2070 is made impossible.
There ya go ya jimi cricket lookalike, put ya money where ya dishonest horrible mouth is.
Last edited by Burton Bridge; 1 month ago
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#17
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
I'd like to see them get indyref2 but on a condition, that being legally binding that of they lose, they lose all devolved power back to Westminster.
I'd like to see them get indyref2 but on a condition, that being legally binding that of they lose, they lose all devolved power back to Westminster.
Like NHS Scotland has never been run from Westminister.
Similarly Scotlands legal and judiciary system.
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#18
(Original post by QE2)
"It is unacceptable and naive for a state to leave a larger organisation of nations with a central governing body, in favour of independence and sovereignty and think they can be successful on their own. " - scream all the Brexiteers and Leave voters.
"It is unacceptable and naive for a state to leave a larger organisation of nations with a central governing body, in favour of independence and sovereignty and think they can be successful on their own. " - scream all the Brexiteers and Leave voters.
Or at least I dont as a Yes/Leave voter in the referendums.
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#19
(Original post by Burton Bridge)
Scotland's chances of getting back into the EU is tiny.
Scotland's chances of getting back into the EU is tiny.
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#20
(Original post by anarchism101)
Not at all, an independent Scotland's chances of EU accession would be pretty good, indeed I suspect - if independence happened soon - Scotland would become an EU member before any of the WB6.
Not at all, an independent Scotland's chances of EU accession would be pretty good, indeed I suspect - if independence happened soon - Scotland would become an EU member before any of the WB6.
Equally in term of institutional frameworks, it is impossible to demonstrate a level of stability in them when they do not even exist. Realistically, if an independent Scotland was to happen any time soon after a referendum vote (rather than after, say, ten years of transition) then it would be dependent, again, on another country to provide a lot of these basic services for some time. The institutions of a functioning, stable state simply don't exist in Scotland and would not be quick to set-up - Christ, we have enough problems trying to take on the administration of a small number of fairly simple welfare benefits that were devolved by the 2016 Scotland Act.
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