101010_
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choosing between these two universities, with regards to the atmosphere of the place I'm leaning towards st Andrews but there are pros and cons for both and its hard to say until I get the chance to visit either of them.

What I want to know is:
1.How much better is Warwick than St Andrews for maths? St Andrews appears to be ranked higher in uk league table for maths but I understand that Warwick has a far greater international repute.
2.Consequently how would my graduate prospects differ (provided I'm able to work hard and achieve a first) in terms of getting a job or applying for a master/phd specifically at oxbridge (if I'm still salty about the rejection in 3 years time)or even internationally; if I wanted to study in America for example.
Might also be useful to know I'm generally unsure about what type of maths I would want to study at masters if any at all(meaning whether or not I will even want to do a masters or phd) and what kind of jobs I would be interested in. Kind of hoping that by taking some university level courses I will be able to decide/discover what I want to do with the rest of my life (if my experience in life thus far has taught me anything; probably not lol).
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aaron2578
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(Original post by 101010_)
choosing between these two universities, with regards to the atmosphere of the place I'm leaning towards st Andrews but there are pros and cons for both and its hard to say until I get the chance to visit either of them.

What I want to know is:
1.How much better is Warwick than St Andrews for maths? St Andrews appears to be ranked higher in uk league table for maths but I understand that Warwick has a far greater international repute.
2.Consequently how would my graduate prospects differ (provided I'm able to work hard and achieve a first) in terms of getting a job or applying for a master/phd specifically at oxbridge (if I'm still salty about the rejection in 3 years time)or even internationally; if I wanted to study in America for example.
Might also be useful to know I'm generally unsure about what type of maths I would want to study at masters if any at all(meaning whether or not I will even want to do a masters or phd) and what kind of jobs I would be interested in. Kind of hoping that by taking some university level courses I will be able to decide/discover what I want to do with the rest of my life (if my experience in life thus far has taught me anything; probably not lol).
Based on what you've said, I'd advise St Andrews.

League tables don't mean much. And reputation is doesn't mean much - especially as you're looking at two very well-respected universities. You should also look at the methodology behind league tables - national rankings are much more relevant to the potential undergraduate.

Consequently, graduate prospects in the UK or chances of entering Oxbridge will hardly differ. Going to Warwick might be a very slight advantage but as I've said above they're both very well-respected. Also, employers only care a bit about the university. They care a lot more about other things such as work experience.

I suspect Warwick might be better for international work, seeing as employers might not know much about UK universities. But that's just my guess so take that with a grain of salt.

Have you heard about studying mutiple subjects at St Andrews and some other scottish universities?
Take a look at this.
You can study multiple subjects in your first and second year which would be beneficial to you if you're not sure about which type of maths you prefer.
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101010_
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(Original post by aaron2578)
Based on what you've said, I'd advise St Andrews.

League tables don't mean much. And reputation is doesn't mean much - especially as you're looking at two very well-respected universities. You should also look at the methodology behind league tables - national rankings are much more relevant to the potential undergraduate.

Consequently, graduate prospects in the UK or chances of entering Oxbridge will hardly differ. Going to Warwick might be a very slight advantage but as I've said above they're both very well-respected. Also, employers only care a bit about the university. They care a lot more about other things such as work experience.

I suspect Warwick might be better for international work, seeing as employers might not know much about UK universities. But that's just my guess so take that with a grain of salt.

Have you heard about studying mutiple subjects at St Andrews and some other scottish universities?
Take a look at this.
You can study multiple subjects in your first and second year which would be beneficial to you if you're not sure about which type of maths you prefer.
my thoughts exactly, I would also be happy for the opportunity to take some classes in subjects such as philosophy, physics etc.
Just got a little worried as I saw an old thread on here asking a similar question where the Warwick students were describing the st Andrews tests as very easy. Don't think they took into account the fact that the degree is a year longer but it still made me question the way I was leaning.
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mnot
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(Original post by 101010_)
choosing between these two universities, with regards to the atmosphere of the place I'm leaning towards st Andrews but there are pros and cons for both and its hard to say until I get the chance to visit either of them.

What I want to know is:
1.How much better is Warwick than St Andrews for maths? St Andrews appears to be ranked higher in uk league table for maths but I understand that Warwick has a far greater international repute.
2.Consequently how would my graduate prospects differ (provided I'm able to work hard and achieve a first) in terms of getting a job or applying for a master/phd specifically at oxbridge (if I'm still salty about the rejection in 3 years time)or even internationally; if I wanted to study in America for example.
Might also be useful to know I'm generally unsure about what type of maths I would want to study at masters if any at all(meaning whether or not I will even want to do a masters or phd) and what kind of jobs I would be interested in. Kind of hoping that by taking some university level courses I will be able to decide/discover what I want to do with the rest of my life (if my experience in life thus far has taught me anything; probably not lol).
Warwick maths program is considered among the best in the UK, and id imagine it would have better prospects.
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101010_
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(Original post by mnot)
Warwick maths program is considered among the best in the UK, and id imagine it would have better prospects.
might be an obvious question but what exactly would this mean for me after finishing the degree, provided all else is equal. Specifically how are prospects better for Warwick? Jobs with better salary? More job options? or something else?
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101010_
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(Original post by 101010_)
might be an obvious question but what exactly would this mean for me after finishing the degree, provided all else is equal. Specifically how are prospects better for Warwick? Jobs with better salary? More job options? or something else?
Anything that would improve my life enough after finishing that it would push me to chose it even if I think I might enjoy the experience at st Andrews more?
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username5161072
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(Original post by 101010_)
might be an obvious question but what exactly would this mean for me after finishing the degree, provided all else is equal. Specifically how are prospects better for Warwick? Jobs with better salary? More job options? or something else?
- A target uni e.g, attracts big firms
- well known for its math department
-plenty of opportunities, constantly bombarded with them despite not doing maths.
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mnot
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(Original post by 101010_)
might be an obvious question but what exactly would this mean for me after finishing the degree, provided all else is equal. Specifically how are prospects better for Warwick? Jobs with better salary? More job options? or something else?
Well I know a maths grad from Warwick and he moved straight from degree into a finance job making extremely high grad salary, now on average the difference is probably only a couple grand but i suspect Warwick sends more people into the most competitive graduate jobs then St Andrews for the more average roles university will be less important but for something like finance or consulting I think Warwick probably has the edge.

As for moving onto a masters or PhD your personal performance at university will matter more than where you studied at undergrad.
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101010_
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(Original post by mnot)
Well I know a maths grad from Warwick and he moved straight from degree into a finance job making extremely high grad salary, now on average the difference is probably only a couple grand but i suspect Warwick sends more people into the most competitive graduate jobs then St Andrews for the more average roles university will be less important but for something like finance or consulting I think Warwick probably has the edge.

As for moving onto a masters or PhD your personal performance at university will matter more than where you studied at undergrad.
Ik its probably a difficult question to answer and will be different for everyone. But how large a role do you think this should play in my decision? Given the fact that until I experience graduating and looking for jobs I don't think I will be able to understand just how important this is for me and how big the difference would be. How do you think I should go about making my decision
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mnot
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(Original post by 101010_)
Ik its probably a difficult question to answer and will be different for everyone. But how large a role do you think this should play in my decision? Given the fact that until I experience graduating and looking for jobs I don't think I will be able to understand just how important this is for me and how big the difference would be. How do you think I should go about making my decision
That’s for you to decide St Andrews is a great university and has a strong reputation but for maths specifically Warwick has a very strong reputation.

How important prospects towards finance firms is is a personal decision, if your not interested in those roles then the prestige benefit of going to Warwick probably is less of an issue.
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101010_
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(Original post by mnot)
That’s for you to decide St Andrews is a great university and has a strong reputation but for maths specifically Warwick has a very strong reputation.

How important prospects towards finance firms is is a personal decision, if your not interested in those roles then the prestige benefit of going to Warwick probably is less of an issue.
yes that's the issue I don't really know how important that will be for me until I know what I want to do after 3 years.
Say I went to st Andrews and after finishing the bachelors equivalent course, decided I wanted a job in finance or whatever. Could I do a masters at Warwick or another uni from COWI to improve my prospects for that field.
so what I'm saying is would those prospects matter most for trying to get a job with just a Bachelors?
sorry for the awkward questions Im just struggling to make a decision because I don't really know what I want.
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mnot
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(Original post by 101010_)
yes that's the issue I don't really know how important that will be for me until I know what I want to do after 3 years.
Say I went to st Andrews and after finishing the bachelors equivalent course, decided I wanted a job in finance or whatever. Could I do a masters at Warwick or another uni from COWI to improve my prospects for that field.
so what I'm saying is would those prospects matter most for trying to get a job with just a Bachelors?
sorry for the awkward questions Im just struggling to make a decision because I don't really know what I want.
It matters but only for a small sphere of the graduate job market.

Tbh the thing with these jobs is you need to really be committed anyway, as you need spring weeks & internships to actually land a grad role. So if you are unlikely to apply for these roles in first or second year then perhaps the reputation benefits of Warwick are not as substantial.
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101010_
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(Original post by mnot)
It matters but only for a small sphere of the graduate job market.

Tbh the thing with these jobs is you need to really be committed anyway, as you need spring weeks & internships to actually land a grad role. So if you are unlikely to apply for these roles in first or second year then perhaps the reputation benefits of Warwick are not as substantial.
ok thanks, is there somewhere I could read about these jobs, find out if it's something that might be of interest to me so I can take it into consideration.
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mnot
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(Original post by 101010_)
ok thanks, is there somewhere I could read about these jobs, find out if it's something that might be of interest to me so I can take it into consideration.
YouTube/google/ efinance/insidecareers
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artful_lounger
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Warwick maths is one of the top 4 maths departments in the country alongside Oxford, Cambridge, and Imperial. For maths specifically Warwick is definitely a lot stronger academically (i.e in terms of research) than St Andrews. If your goal is a PhD in Maths I think Warwick will offer you far more higher level opportunities to engage in research in preparation for that than many other maths departments in the UK. Warwick grads frequently go to Oxford and Cambridge for PhDs in maths and vice versa. Frankly I find it kind of absurd that any league table would rank St Andrews above Warwick for maths specifically, I assume they have some very peculiar methodology...
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I would look into course differences too, St Andrews is more focused with applied options, Warwick has more options in terms of pure and is generally very flexible. Agree that Warwick would be a good choice if you want to continue into research.

Don't feel pressured by the rep though, if you prefer St Andrews pick St Andrews.

If you are concerned about graduate prospects, unless you're looking at one of the industries like IB that have all that target semitarget nonsense, I don't imagine it'd be very different so you'd be ok with either
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As above, unless you specifically want to go for investment banking, I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage with job hunting. St Andrews is an elite university; one of the very best in the UK.
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aaron2578
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(Original post by 101010_)
my thoughts exactly, I would also be happy for the opportunity to take some classes in subjects such as philosophy, physics etc.
Just got a little worried as I saw an old thread on here asking a similar question where the Warwick students were describing the st Andrews tests as very easy. Don't think they took into account the fact that the degree is a year longer but it still made me question the way I was leaning.
I think people tend to find the first year at St Andrews easy.

If you're set on going into a career where it's important to go to a target university (I think that's what they're called?) then you'll might want Warwick. Otherwise, definetely St Andrews.

Also, what year are you in? Are you choosing firm/insurance choices or are you choosing your 5? Have you considered going for both?
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101010_
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(Original post by aaron2578)
I think people tend to find the first year at St Andrews easy.

If you're set on going into a career where it's important to go to a target university (I think that's what they're called?) then you'll might want Warwick. Otherwise, definetely St Andrews.

Also, what year are you in? Are you choosing firm/insurance choices or are you choosing your 5? Have you considered going for both?
would probably go straight into second year.
havent thought enough about careers to decide this but after mnot's advice I've been thinking more about it.
Since I'm now looking into it what kind of jobs would benefit from going to Warwick the target uni?
atm I just got rejected from Cambridge and so with that on my mind I want to try to go for a masters there since I feel like Ive never put as much effort into my education as I should have and I've kind of underachieved. But since I dont think ill want to go into academics maybe id be doing it for the wrong reasons. Although I think a master can increase long term earning a little over a bachelors right?
gap year after college taking further maths since I regrettably didn't chose it in year 12. So choosing firm and insurance.
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101010_
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(Original post by Quick-use)
As above, unless you specifically want to go for investment banking, I don't think you'd be at a disadvantage with job hunting. St Andrews is an elite university; one of the very best in the UK.
looking at stats for graduate outcomes they seem to earn less than Warwick, London and oxbridge graduates, do you think a lot of this comes down to location of jobs/connections and other factors that make the difference larger than it would otherwise be?
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