Sia says sorry to autism community for controversial film Music

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DiddyDec
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#21
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#21
(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
because autistic people had little to no input on the film.
How do they know what went on behind the scenes?
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64Lightbulbs
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#22
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#22
(Original post by DiddyDec)
How do they know what went on behind the scenes?
well there weren't any autistic actors/writers
and they partnered with autism speaks
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DiddyDec
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#23
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(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
well there weren't any autistic actors/writers
and they partnered with autism speaks
So it is outrage based on assumption, they don't actually know what went on behind the scenes or who was consulted.
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ry7xsfa
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#24
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
It isn't the whole point of an actor to act as someone they are not? Whether they be playing the president or a serial killer neither of which they will have experienced but for which they must be convincing.

It is not impossible to play a convincing autistic character, off the top of my head would be Dr. Brennan in Bones or Abed in Community. Both played by neurotypical actors.

Here is an interesting article based on paper written by psychiatrists looking into how well represented psychopaths were in film.
https://www.businessinsider.com/famo...7-12?r=US&IR=T

Sir Anthony Hopkins' portrayal of Hannibal didn't make the cut whereas Javier Bardem's performance in No Country For Old Men was in fact the best representation based on their criteria.

Actors act, that is their job. They don't always get it right.
Not all representation is good representation though. The way this movie, in particular, is done reinforces stereotypes that are harmful. As previously mentioned, there was also the restraint scene (since removed, but it shouldn't have been there in the first place), which shows a restraint that is extremely dangerous. Both of these issues could have been avoided by at least working with Autistic people on the film.

Additionally, Sia's response to the criticism shows that she didn't consider Autistic people "able" to do the job. Which is just ridiculous. She's literally saying an Autistic person can't accurately portray an Autistic character, yet a NT can? There is a simple fact that Autistic people are still seen as "undesirable" to hire over NT individuals in many careers (film being one of them), and the fact that Autistic people weren't given a chance to represent themselves is a real kick in the teeth.

(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
well there weren't any autistic actors/writers
and they partnered with autism speaks
Autism $peaks have actually come out and said they weren't involved.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by ry7xsfa)
Not all representation is good representation though. The way this movie, in particular, is done reinforces stereotypes that are harmful. As previously mentioned, there was also the restraint scene (since removed, but it shouldn't have been there in the first place), which shows a restraint that is extremely dangerous. Both of these issues could have been avoided by at least working with Autistic people on the film.

Additionally, Sia's response to the criticism shows that she didn't consider Autistic people "able" to do the job. Which is just ridiculous. She's literally saying an Autistic person can't accurately portray an Autistic character, yet a NT can? There is a simple fact that Autistic people are still seen as "undesirable" to hire over NT individuals in many careers (film being one of them), and the fact that Autistic people weren't given a chance to represent themselves is a real kick in the teeth.
As I said above, how do you know no autistic person was involved with the making of the film? Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it didn't occur.

She didn't "literally" say that, you added that part. This is what she "literally" said;

“I actually tried working with a a beautiful young girl non-verbal on the spectrum and she found it unpleasant and stressful. So that’s why I cast Maddie,”

I have already addressed this point.

(Original post by DiddyDec)
It is all well and good wanting hire an autistic person for the role but film sets are noisy and chaotic places which can't always be made suitable for neurodivergent people if you need to keep to a time frame and a budget. She tried to and it just didn't work out, that is business whether you like it or not.
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Ascend
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Here is an interesting article based on paper written by psychiatrists looking into how well represented psychopaths were in film.
https://www.businessinsider.com/famo...7-12?r=US&IR=T

Sir Anthony Hopkins' portrayal of Hannibal didn't make the cut whereas Javier Bardem's performance in No Country For Old Men was in fact the best representation based on their criteria.

Thanks for posting this. V interesting.
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ry7xsfa
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#27
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
As I said above, how do you know no autistic person was involved with the making of the film? Just because something isn't reported doesn't mean it didn't occur.

She didn't "literally" say that, you added that part. This is what she "literally" said;

“I actually tried working with a a beautiful young girl non-verbal on the spectrum and she found it unpleasant and stressful. So that’s why I cast Maddie,”

I have already addressed this point.
There are definitely things that can be done to make it less stressful and unpleasant for Autistic people on movie sets. In fact, in the UK these adjustments would be required under the Equality Act, and in the US under the ADA. I don't know where this was actually filmed, but Sia is Australian so it could be there, and I find it difficult to believe that Australia doesn't have a similar law to protect disabled people from this.
Last edited by ry7xsfa; 3 weeks ago
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DiddyDec
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#28
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(Original post by ry7xsfa)
There are definitely things that can be done to make it less stressful and unpleasant to Autistic people on movie sets. In fact, in the UK these adjustments would be required under the Equality Act, and in the US under the ADA. I don't know where this was actually filmed, but Sia is Australian so it could be there, and I find it difficult to believe that Australia doesn't have a similar law to protect disabled people from this.
Adjustments must be "reasonable".

What could be done?
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GremlinIAMH
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#29
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Adjustments must be "reasonable".

What could be done?
It can be as simple as giving clear instructions with no metaphors, telling someone exactly whats going to be done and the expected time frame, allowing more time for a response, more frequent breaks, giving pictures of the places you are going and people you are working with, allowing the use of ear defenders or sunglasses when not filming, give prior warning if there are known changes, allow them to go to a place to calm down if needed.

(Original post by DiddyDec)
“I actually tried working with a a beautiful young girl non-verbal on the spectrum and she found it unpleasant and stressful. So that’s why I cast Maddie,”
Sia has never said why this was the case. This means we have no gauge at where things went wrong. We will probably never know unless there was an issue with adjustments and the individual takes legal action against Sia. This is one person as well, while it's mentioned that multiple Autistics applied for the role, we don't know why each fell through.

https://ew.com/movies/sia-music-movi...m-controversy/ is a very good summary, this was before the restraint stuff came to light
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ry7xsfa
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#30
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(Original post by GremlinIAMH)
This is one person as well, while it's mentioned that multiple Autistics applied for the role, we don't know why each fell through.
"Maybe you're just a bad actor"

- Sia
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DiddyDec
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#31
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#31
(Original post by GremlinIAMH)
It can be as simple as giving clear instructions with no metaphors, telling someone exactly whats going to be done and the expected time frame, allowing more time for a response, more frequent breaks, giving pictures of the places you are going and people you are working with, allowing the use of ear defenders or sunglasses when not filming, give prior warning if there are known changes, allow them to go to a place to calm down if needed.

Sia has never said why this was the case. This means we have no gauge at where things went wrong. We will probably never know unless there was an issue with adjustments and the individual takes legal action against Sia. This is one person as well, while it's mentioned that multiple Autistics applied for the role, we don't know why each fell through.

https://ew.com/movies/sia-music-movi...m-controversy/ is a very good summary, this was before the restraint stuff came to light
Do you have a lot of film set experience?
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ry7xsfa
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#32
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Do you have a lot of film set experience?
You don't need film set experience to know what will help Autistic people lol
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by ry7xsfa)
You don't need film set experience to know what will help Autistic people lol
But you do to know what is reasonable on set. While it may work in theory it may not be possible to accommodate when you are working to a deadline and budget.
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ry7xsfa
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
But you do to know what is reasonable on set. While it may work in theory it may not be possible to accommodate when you are working to a deadline and budget.
It should definitely be possible to do what was suggested. Giving direct instructions, advanced notice of people you will be working with and places where you will be going, frequent breaks when needed. And the use of things to reduce any sensory inputs when not filming. These are definitely reasonable.
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64Lightbulbs
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
So it is outrage based on assumption, they don't actually know what went on behind the scenes or who was consulted.
it's not outrage it is criticism. do you not think people should criticize media?
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DiddyDec
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#36
(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
it's not outrage it is criticism. do you not think people should criticize media?
This is a little beyond "criticism", I think criticism is healthy if it is constructive.
https://www.change.org/p/sia-cancel-the-film-music
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GremlinIAMH
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
This is a little beyond "criticism", I think criticism is healthy if it is constructive.
https://www.change.org/p/sia-cancel-the-film-music
I personally don't think it should necessarily be cancelled-this isn't a representation of all Autistics or necessarily the ones who are in the middle of the controversy. At the time as well, it was before Sia had actually done anything, so at that time it seemed Sia was getting away with it as very few Allistic listening to our concerns. Additionally,it's easier to say an extreme and to compromise.
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64Lightbulbs
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#38
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
This is a little beyond "criticism", I think criticism is healthy if it is constructive.
https://www.change.org/p/sia-cancel-the-film-music
you're mad someone is being 'cancelled'. why is everything you take issue with about cancel culture? you found a change.org petition that probably won't change anyone's mind, it's just people who already disliked the portrayal of autistic people in the movie. People can dislike a movie and say it's "cancelled" if they want to. I think harassment campaigns, death threats, etc. are bad but you have to be able to see the distinction between saying "I am mad that Sia made a movie that poorly represents autistic people" and dog piling someone on twitter.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
you're mad someone is being 'cancelled'. why is everything you take issue with about cancel culture? you found a change.org petition that probably won't change anyone's mind, it's just people who already disliked the portrayal of autistic people in the movie. People can dislike a movie and say it's "cancelled" if they want to. I think harassment campaigns, death threats, etc. are bad but you have to be able to see the distinction between saying "I am mad that Sia made a movie that poorly represents autistic people" and dog piling someone on twitter.
I very rarely bring up cancel culture so I'm not really sure where you got that idea from, just having a quick look and the most common theme in my threads are police and mental health.
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Napp
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#40
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#40
(Original post by GremlinIAMH)
How on Earth are you comparing Nazis to Autistics?? You are comparing extremists to everyday individuals. This is not in reference to a historical drama, this is the current day.
I didnt compare Nazis to Autistics. Save your melodramatic response and read the comment again.
It's not as simple of 'this one thing that I have affects this small bit of me', it affects your entire perception of the world. Non-Autistics will never understand our perception of the world, as we will never completely understand theres. I have never seen a non-Autistic individual play an Autistic person well and highly doubt I will ever.
That is your perception and you're welcome to it, alas that doesnt make it a fact though.
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