Should Johnson & Hancock face criminal charges for mishandling the pandemic?

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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Mishandling the pandemic, not listening to warnings from other countries, government incompetence, PPE and enforcement disaster etc.
You’d be hard pushed to find a similar country to the U.K. that handled it well at the start. Although I have today I think we’ve done a rather good job since then.

Enforcement has been an issue, but in my experience the biggest ones who have been critical of enforcement and lockdowns have been the biggest rule breakers.

PPE fiasco was global. China manufacturers most of the worlds PPE and hoarded what they produced.

Remember when he was criticised for not getting involved in the EUs PPE procurement programme. We got ours delivered before the EUs.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
You’d be hard pushed to find a similar country to the U.K. that handled it well at the start. Although I have today I think we’ve done a rather good job since then.

Enforcement has been an issue, but in my experience the biggest ones who have been critical of enforcement and lockdowns have been the biggest rule breakers.

PPE fiasco was global. China manufacturers most of the worlds PPE and hoarded what they produced.

Remember when he was criticised for not getting involved in the EUs PPE procurement programme. We got ours delivered before the EUs.
"rather good job" when there are over 100K deaths and never ending lockdown cycles. I don't believe that the PPE fiasco was global when other countries similar to the UK were able to provide medical staff with good PPE I.e Hazmat suits. Sorry but I can't forgive the UK government for their mishandling of the pandemic.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
"rather good job" when there are over 100K deaths and never ending lockdown cycles. I don't believe that the PPE fiasco was global when other countries similar to the UK were able to provide medical staff with good PPE I.e Hazmat suits. Sorry but I can't forgive the UK government for their mishandling of the pandemic.
Gone from pretty much zero testing to one of the most capable testing regimes in the world.

Developed an at cost vaccines which benefits the global family.

Developed some pretty effective treatments for those suffering from it.

Genome research is world leading.

Sir John Bell being interviewed by the BBC a few weeks back. They tried to draw him into criticising the government. He pointed out that mistakes have been made but that was to be expected as nobody’s had to go through this before in the west. He was surprisingly complimentary of HMG.

I liked his out down when they tried to compare the U.K. to New Zealand though.

100k is a lot, but I’ll wait a year or two before the data is correctly analysed and normalised.

There’s quite a few things going against the U.K. in the numbers game. High proportion of elderly people. High proportion of unhealthy people. Dense population. High proportion of ethnic minorities. High testing rates etc etc.

It’s a pandemic. It’s doing what pandemics do. It’s not particularly nice, but there’s quite a few people trying to make political capital out of this.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Gone from pretty much zero testing to one of the most capable testing regimes in the world.

Developed an at cost vaccines which benefits the global family.

Developed some pretty effective treatments for those suffering from it.

Genome research is world leading.

Sir John Bell being interviewed by the BBC a few weeks back. They tried to draw him into criticising the government. He pointed out that mistakes have been made but that was to be expected as nobody’s had to go through this before in the west. He was surprisingly complimentary of HMG.

I liked his out down when they tried to compare the U.K. to New Zealand though.

100k is a lot, but I’ll wait a year or two before the data is correctly analysed and normalised.

There’s quite a few things going against the U.K. in the numbers game. High proportion of elderly people. High proportion of unhealthy people. Dense population. High proportion of ethnic minorities. High testing rates etc etc.

It’s a pandemic. It’s doing what pandemics do. It’s not particularly nice, but there’s quite a few people trying to make political capital out of this.
Other than the vaccine program and finding treatments there's nothing good about the way that the UK government have handled the pandemic. Also lol this "the UK handled the pandemic poorly or can't do W because of XYZ" cop-out is at it again. We had chances to get things right but instead we screwed up.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Other than the vaccine program and finding treatments there's nothing good about the way that the UK government have handled the pandemic. Also lol this "the UK handled the pandemic poorly or can't do W because of XYZ" cop-out is at it again. We had chances to get things right but instead we screwed up.
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing. There isn’t a country in the west other that have particularly done well.

As I say. I’ll wait till the numbers come in at a later date.

The vaccines and the treatments are the only effective way to deal with this.

Some country’s did lockdowns quite well such as South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. I’d add China to that list but they’ve lied about their figures.

They’ve all had to deal with bird flu in the past so had a degree of practice. They also have an incredibly compliant population who do exactly as they’re told.

Each country has its own way of measuring success, different demographics and different geography. All of that plays a part. As I say. I’ll keep following the rules, wait for my vaccination and wait for the in depth comparisons to be published
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Hindsight’s a wonderful thing. There isn’t a country in the west other that have particularly done well.

As I say. I’ll wait till the numbers come in at a later date.

The vaccines and the treatments are the only effective way to deal with this.

Some country’s did lockdowns quite well such as South Korea, Taiwan and Japan. I’d add China to that list but they’ve lied about their figures.

They’ve all had to deal with bird flu in the past so had a degree of practice. They also have an incredibly compliant population who do exactly as they’re told.

Each country has its own way of measuring success, different demographics and different geography. All of that plays a part. As I say. I’ll keep following the rules, wait for my vaccination and wait for the in depth comparisons to be published
Canada seem to be doing ok/good. Vaccines are not the only effective way to deal with the virus look at AZ, NZ, HK, SK, CA, IoM all countries that have managed to get a grip on the virus without having to wait/rely on a saviour vaccine because they've got competent governments (ok maybe not AZ and HK but they've still handled the pandemic better than the UK government). Let's stop making excuses as to why the UK couldn't get a grip of the virus and and start admitting that the government have made mistakes during the pandemic, learn from other countries who have got it right and lead the way when it comes to the vaccine program.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Canada seem to be doing ok/good. Vaccines are not the only effective way to deal with the virus look at AZ, NZ, HK, SK, CA, IoM all countries that have managed to get a grip on the virus without having to wait/rely on a saviour vaccine because they've got competent governments (ok maybe not AZ and HK but they've still handled the pandemic better than the UK government). Let's stop making excuses as to why the UK couldn't get a grip of the virus and and start admitting that the government have made mistakes during the pandemic, learn from other countries who have got it right and lead the way when it comes to the vaccine program.
Canada doesn’t have a particularly elderly population, has a relatively healthy population and if you’ve ever gone there it’s incredibly sparsely populated.

They now have the problem that the EU isn’t shipping vaccines manufactured in the EU to them anymore.
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Rakas21
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The UK has generally performed on par with France and Italy and better than Spain.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Canada doesn’t have a particularly elderly population, has a relatively healthy population and if you’ve ever gone there it’s incredibly sparsely populated.

They now have the problem that the EU isn’t shipping vaccines manufactured in the EU to them anymore.
Still though your statement that "There isn’t a country in the west other that have particularly done well." has done well is false.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Still though your statement that "There isn’t a country in the west other that have particularly done well." has done well is false.
It does.

Complaints in Canada with two thirds of the population unhappy with the way the Canadian government has handled Covid.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7629863/c...er-ipsos-poll/

Yet approximately the same amount in the U.K. (two thirds) happy with the UKs governments handling

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-c...ings-we-learnt

Caveats. Dates are slightly different. Different poll. People trying to make political capital hope nobody bothers to check factually what’s happening in others country’s. Opinion polls change.

Again, Canada .Different country. Different demographic. Different geography.

I see Johnson has a higher opinion poll rating than Starmer.

https://order-order.com/2021/02/12/p...ling-pandemic/

I think it’s fair to say most people are getting p*ssed off about the pandemic now and are naturally unhappy.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
It does.

Complaints in Canada with two thirds of the population unhappy with the way the Canadian government has handled Covid.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7629863/c...er-ipsos-poll/

Yet approximately the same amount in the U.K. (two thirds) happy with the UKs governments handling

https://www.health.org.uk/news-and-c...ings-we-learnt

Caveats. Dates are slightly different. Different poll. People trying to make political capital hope nobody bothers to check factually what’s happening in others country’s. Opinion polls change.

Again, Canada .Different country. Different demographic. Different geography.

I see Johnson has a higher opinion poll rating than Starmer.

https://order-order.com/2021/02/12/p...ling-pandemic/
Still doesn't hide the fact that Canada as a whole have a lower death toll than the UK and have actually handled the pandemic well so there is a Western nation who have handled the pandemic well. Therefore either way your original statement is false. Same logic can be used for people in HK when they panic about getting 50 new cases vs us being ok with 10K a day does that mean that HK have done worst? No they've still done better.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Still doesn't hide the fact that Canada as a whole have a lower death toll than the UK and have actually handled the pandemic well so there is a Western nation who have handled the pandemic well. Therefore either way your original statement is false. Same logic can be used for people in HK when they panic about getting 50 new cases vs us being ok with 10K a day does that mean that HK have done worst? No they've still done better.
As I said. Canada’s a sparsely populated country with a healthier and younger population.

U.K. population 67 million.
Canada population. 38 million.

uK daily tests performed 500k

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785041

Canada daily tests performed. 62k

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...-19-cases.html



As I say. This isn’t a competition. I’ll wait until all
Of the data is analysed over the next few years.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
As I said. Canada’s a sparsely populated country with a healthier and younger population.

U.K. population 67 million.
Canada population. 38 million.

uK daily tests performed 500k

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54785041

Canada daily tests performed. 62k

https://health-infobase.canada.ca/co...-19-cases.html



As I say. This isn’t a competition. I’ll wait until all
Of the data is analysed over the next few years.
Again that still makes your previous original statement wrong. Just admit that there is a Western country (even if it's only 1) that has handled the pandemic well.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Again that still makes your previous original statement wrong. Just admit that there is a Western country (even if it's only 1) that has handled the pandemic well.
Compared to what? Nobody is measuring data in the same way.

As I’ve explained, there are multiple different factors at play.

But if you want me to say that Canada has done better than the U.K. I will.

Canada has down an amazing job with its sparsely populated country, poor testing regime, inability to develop a vaccine itself, lack of vaccine manufacturing facilities meaning that it’s going to wait until the EU decides to supply its vaccines to them.

Of course they’ve done a great job. PM Trudeau has the full support of the electorate
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Compared to what? Nobody is measuring data in the same way.

As I’ve explained, there are multiple different factors at play.

But if you want me to say that Canada has done better than the U.K. I will.

Canada has down an amazing job with its sparsely populated country, poor testing regime, inability to develop a vaccine itself, lack of vaccine manufacturing facilities meaning that it’s going to wait until the EU decides to supply its vaccines to them.

Of course they’ve done a great job. PM Trudeau has the full support of the electorate
Compared to most of the West and world (India, France, Spain, UK, South America etc).
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Imane888
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(Original post by tan030)
well we're 10 months into the pandemic and we have zero exit strategy and the worst number of deaths compared to any other country in the world. It's okay to get a few things wrong in the initial stages, but repeated failure after failure 10 months into the pandemic is not. What excuse do we have? Nz and australia were strict up front, dealt with things properly and are now pretty much back to normal, albeit with stricter border controls.
But sir we are densely populated, have a high elderly population, we are diverse and rely on international trade for our economyetc it would have been impossible for us to do any better. (obviously saying this in an innocent sarcastic tone).
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L i b
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Sometimes it's fun to discuss silly stuff, but this sort of crank nonsense is just boring.
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Shaven125
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(Original post by tan030)
Should they face charges/jail terms for gross negligence, emotional abuse, treason, not to mention imposing rules which are a breach of basic human rights e.g, stopping care home residents from coming home to see their loved ones?

Everyone seems to have forgotten about all the failings by government ministers just because they've managed to get a vaccine rolled out...
The entire power structure should face criminal proccedings for this fake pendemic, now that the world is waking up. (The UK will wake up last given that its a virtual reality brainwash island, and students last in the UK).
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Compared to most of the West and world (India, France, Spain, UK, South America etc).
I know you’re upset about brexit happening. But it’s over with now.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
I know you’re upset about brexit happening. But it’s over with now.
Where did I mention Brexit in my posts? This has nothing to do with Brexit.
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