Should Johnson & Hancock face criminal charges for mishandling the pandemic?

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MatureStudent37
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#61
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#61
(Original post by Imane888)
This is about the UK. I am not denying that France, Spain and Italy F'd up too but that still doesn't make the UK ok. The UK have screwed up. U-turn after U-turn, poor "lockdowns", FSM disaster, putting in legislative laws lastminute.com and making some of them contradictory and daft (Rule of 6, 10pm curfew etc), poor track and trace system, the government being weak etc.
Track and trace system was always going to difficult to implement. The only ones with a half decent system was SE Asia. That was because they’d already developed one. However, remember that the country’s that did exceptionally well such as Taiwan, South Korea and Japan have a very compliant population. Government says something. The people do it.

I think it’s a bit difficult to say track and trace didn’t work when.

1) people wouldn’t answer the phone with a withheld no.
2) people didn’t get the App downloaded for fear of government tracking. (No problem with google and Facebook following your every move and selling the data on to third parties, but heavens forbid the government does it.
3) People deleting the App because they’re worried that they’ll be found out for breaking the rules.

I don’t think the governments been particularly weak. Enforcement could’ve been harder, but there’s cultural issues at play there. The U.K. compared to a lot of European countries, lacks the type of Policing to go in hard on things like this.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Track and trace system was always going to difficult to implement. The only ones with a half decent system was SE Asia. That was because they’d already developed one. However, remember that the country’s that did exceptionally well such as Taiwan, South Korea and Japan have a very compliant population. Government says something. The people do it.

I think it’s a bit difficult to say track and trace didn’t work when.

1) people wouldn’t answer the phone with a withheld no.
2) people didn’t get the App downloaded for fear of government tracking. (No problem with google and Facebook following your every move and selling the data on to third parties, but heavens forbid the government does it.
3) People deleting the App because they’re worried that they’ll be found out for breaking the rules.

I don’t think the governments been particularly weak. Enforcement could’ve been harder, but there’s cultural issues at play there. The U.K. compared to a lot of European countries, lacks the type of Policing to go in hard on things like this.
When I talk about the government being weak I am not talking about enforcement, I am talking about things such as opening up too soon because that's what the public wanted, Exam u-turns etc. Rather than being strong and saying NO we will not do this.
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MatureStudent37
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#63
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(Original post by Imane888)
When I talk about the government being weak I am not talking about enforcement, I am talking about things such as opening up too soon because that's what the public wanted, Exam u-turns etc. Rather than being strong and saying NO we will not do this.
Similar things happened throughout Europe.

The last time we had to deal with anything like this is in 1918.

The scale of what we’ve had to deal with is similar to WW2.

Issues such as exam U turns are trivia when looking at the big picture.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Similar things happened throughout Europe.

The last time we had to deal with anything like this is in 1918.

The scale of what we’ve had to deal with is similar to WW2.

Issues such as exam U turns are trivia when looking at the big picture.
This whole "Europe did it too" still doesn't make the PM's actions acceptable.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
This whole "Europe did it too" still doesn't make the PM's actions acceptable.
It’s difficult to sacrificial with 20:20 hindsight.

This has been a massive buggeration for a lot of people. Problem is in a situation like this, anything that is done can be seen as wrong.
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
It’s difficult to sacrificial with 20:20 hindsight.

This has been a massive buggeration for a lot of people. Problem is in a situation like this, anything that is done can be seen as wrong.
Well at least most people can see the flaws of the UK government when it came to handling the pandemic. Rather than saying that they've done "amazing".
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Imane888)
Well at least most people can see the flaws of the UK government when it came to handling the pandemic. Rather than saying that they've done "amazing".
Most people can see the flaws, but most appear to be more understanding of the problems faced.

As I say, elements could’ve been done better with 20:20 hindsight, but when it comes to the big issues such as vaccine development, vaccine manufacturing and vaccine deployment, they have done rather well. (Note, that’s not just going to be government m, but the civil service
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Rakas21
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It's worth saying that the actual testing is higher than most other developed nations even per capita and has been since May. The failure in test and trace is enforcement.
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Napp
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Read the foreign press. Pretty much everybody screwed it up.
Except most of Asia, Australasia and Oceania..
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Imane888
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(Original post by Napp)
Except most of Asia, Australasia and Oceania..
Don't forget Canada and the Isle of man too along with Denmark.
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Rakas21
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If we take 1000 Covid deaths per 100,000 as the mark at which a country goes into the poor performance category then 28 states (excluding sub 1 million populations) have performed poorly on deaths.
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Wongwianwai
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All mainstream politicians belong at Nuremberg.
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jackmarshal757
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By that same argument, Blair should face criminal charges for the Iraq war, but hey here we are.
Last edited by jackmarshal757; 1 week ago
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Napp)
Except most of Asia, Australasia and Oceania..
Asia has a very compliant population. They do what they’re told.

Aren’t Australia and Oceania the same?

Zealand and Australian are out of the way and incredibly sparsely populated.
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jackmarshal757
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Asia has a very compliant population. They do what they’re told.

Aren’t Australia and Oceania the same?

Zealand and Australian are out of the way and incredibly sparsely populated.
Think of why that is for a second, maybe it’s because the majority live under dictatorships or have done previously?
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Imane888
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Asia has a very compliant population. They do what they’re told.

Aren’t Australia and Oceania the same?

Zealand and Australian are out of the way and incredibly sparsely populated.
But that still makes your statement of "Read the foreign press. Pretty much everybody screwed it up." wrong.
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Imane888
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Let's stop trying to let the UK off/give excuses as to why they mishandled the pandemic and instead hold the UK government to account.
Last edited by Imane888; 1 week ago
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Imane888
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(Original post by jackmarshal757)
Think of why that is for a second, maybe it’s because the majority live under dictatorships or have done previously?
Or maybe they have trustworthy governments? (bar China).
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Napp
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Asia has a very compliant population. They do what they’re told.

Aren’t Australia and Oceania the same?

Zealand and Australian are out of the way and incredibly sparsely populated.
Mildly racist.. and specious for that matter. A Thai is not the same as a Malay, just as a Malay is not the same as a Japanese. The general assumption that all Asians are not but meak little followers of authority is little more than a crass generalisation that rapidly falls apart when ever anyone actually goes to an Asian country. Not least because many Asians merely do as theyre told because the governments are quite fond on jailing/shooting them otherwise. Merely look at anywhere from India to Thailand to Burma and beyond.

Nope, different continents which include different areas of the pacific.

To a point but what does that have to do with it? Especially given the major population centres are where most people live? nearly 25% of NZL's population live in one city for example. Same goes for Australia with most people living in tightly packed conurbations.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by jackmarshal757)
Think of why that is for a second, maybe it’s because the majority live under dictatorships or have done previously?
You’re correct. So have most countries in the EU with the exception of Holland, Denmark and Sweden. Yet Europe has had similar issues to the U.K. Orientals are less individualistic than westerners.

Different cultures react differently.

I was also thinking along the lines that those countries in Asia have done reasonably well as they’ve had prior practice as well with bird flu. South Korea already has a functioning track and trace system in place. Their population knew the drills.
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