harrysbar
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As universities face fines for being "too woke" and heritage groups are told that "public funds must never be used for political purposes" the government announce the appointment of a Free Speech Champion to defend free speech and academic freedom on campuses.

A recent poll shows that 49% of Britons believe they are less free to say what they think than five years ago, which is exemplified by the hate thrown at certain celebrities who dare to voice an unwoke opinion. Or as the Telegraph put it, Is cancel culture the modern days witch trials?

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics...ancel-culture/
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Azagthoa
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Just shows that we are now living in a far right dictatorship. All we have asked is that BAME people have fair and equitable treatment. To achieve this, we must highlight Britain's disgraceful, evil and racist colonialist past that all white people benefitted from, and face up to how Churchill was a colonialist racist. Disgraceful that the Tories are trying to supress this by fining universities and trusts. Freedom of speech sure is under attack, but it is the rignt who are the perpatrators.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
All we have asked is that BAME people have fair and equitable treatment. To achieve this, we must highlight Britain's disgraceful, evil and racist colonialist past that all white people benefitted from, and face up to how Churchill was a colonialist racist.
I don't agree that to achieve the first goal we have to highlight Britains shameful past beyond teaching children about it in history lessons at school.

Powerful countries all have shady things in their past, things they are ashamed of by today's standards but to accept that does not mean we have to completely destroy our history and heritage. Better to be open and educated about the past so that we can learn lessons from it than seek to destroy any reference to it in my opinion.
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Qxi.xli
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Posting to subscribe lol
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Azagthoa
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I don't agree that to achieve the first goal we have to highlight Britains shameful past beyond teaching children about it in history lessons at school.

Powerful countries all have shady things in their past, things they are ashamed of by today's standards but to accept that does not mean we have to completely destroy our history and heritage. Better to be open and educated about the past so that we can learn lessons from it than seek to destroy any reference to it in my opinion.
I completely agree with you in that we must be open and educated about the past. However the simple fact is that Britain has a racist colonialist past and that is not up for discussion, and to pretend it is causes harm to BAME and LGBT+ folk. Just because we are open and honest about the past does not mean we should glorify it. All statues of slavers and racists (Chruchill included) must come down. I fully support Sadiq and his review into these matters. At least one politician still has integrity.
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ROTL94
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Just shows that we are now living in a far right dictatorship.
Completely absurd and sheltered opinion. This country's nothing like a dictatorship.
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StriderHort
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Well, yeah I can see why Telegraph readers feel they can't speak their mind without offending decent people , do a Daily Mail or Express poll next
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
I completely agree with you in that we must be open and educated about the past. However the simple fact is that Britain has a racist colonialist past and that is not up for discussion, and to pretend it is causes harm to BAME and LGBT+ folk. Just because we are open and honest about the past does not mean we should glorify it. All statues of slavers and racists (Chruchill included) must come down. I fully support Sadiq and his review into these matters. At least one politician still has integrity.
I think the vast majority of the UK would agree with you that Britain has a racist colonialist past - only a few extremely right wing people might deny it but even they would probably acknowledge it (but be proud of it).

I don't agree that statues need to come down as it is only a small minority of people who are offended by them and if we went down that route we would end up taking down every monument and landmark that any group in society was offended by which is an example of a minority imposing their views on others to an unreasonable and prohibitively expensive degree. There are things I am offended by but I don't go around demanding they be taken down or destroyed. We can't change history by destroying a few statues, and the argument that we should do so just leads to a more divisive society. With regards to reaching equality, far more can be achieved by tolerance and free speech than by seeking to stifle or "cancel" anyone with a different view to ourselves.
Last edited by harrysbar; 1 week ago
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Napp
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I don't agree that to achieve the first goal we have to highlight Britains shameful past beyond teaching children about it in history lessons at school.

Powerful countries all have shady things in their past, things they are ashamed of by today's standards but to accept that does not mean we have to completely destroy our history and heritage. Better to be open and educated about the past so that we can learn lessons from it than seek to destroy any reference to it in my opinion.
What i find amusing is the users distinct inference that its only those 'evil racist white colonialist' countries that have stains on their history and thus any country that is "bame" (surely lobbing everything ethnic group under this is discriminatory in its own right?) is not but a squeaky clean poor victim. Either an alarming ignorance of both basic history and current affairs or a disgracefully biased view steeped in, what can only be described as, propaganda that only the white man (or in this case Britain's) can do evil whilst politely ignoring not only the good the nation has done but the, arguably, worse crimes of many others. As but a case in point, if a mildly hackneyed one at this point, whom was it that engaged in selling their kin to slave traders and whom was it who spent billions of pounds and thousands of lives to stamp it out? The amusing bit being that both the former and latter bits tend to be ignored by these historically illiterate 'wokeists' to ram home their own selective view of history, bereft of nuance.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Napp)
What i find amusing is the users distinct inference that its only those 'evil racist white colonialist' countries that have stains on their history and thus any country that is "bame" (surely lobbing everything ethnic group under this is discriminatory in its own right?) is not but a squeaky clean poor victim. Either an alarming ignorance of both basic history and current affairs or a disgracefully biased view steeped in, what can only be described as, propaganda that only the white man (or in this case Britain's) can do evil whilst politely ignoring not only the good the nation has done but the, arguably, worse crimes of many others. As but a case in point, if a mildly hackneyed one at this point, whom was it that engaged in selling their kin to slave traders and whom was it who spent billions of pounds and thousands of lives to stamp it out? The amusing bit being that both the former and latter bits tend to be ignored by these historically illiterate 'wokeists' to ram home their own selective view of history, bereft of nuance.
The Woke Brigade always seem so angry like to have a different viewpoint is to be an evil person - they seem to have more in common with extremist groups then the liberal left they come from in that regard.

So by their biased logic, not wanting to see statues destroyed just because they want them to be is enough evidence to label you a racist 🤷🏼*♀️
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Napp
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(Original post by harrysbar)
The Woke Brigade always seem so angry like to have a different viewpoint is to be an evil person - they seem to have more in common with extremist groups then the liberal left they come from in that regard.

So by their biased logic, not wanting to see statues destroyed just because they want them to be is enough evidence to label you a racist 🤷🏼*♀️
Well put.
Alas, they seem to be importing their perverse ideology from the states in no small measure. Their ruination of the term 'liberal' spreading through what used to be a relatively respectable part of the political spectrum.
Alas, as you said, in thier eyes anyone who disagrees with them is a fascist/nazi/homophobe/transphobe/sexist/gammon (the list goes on of inane meaningless insults). If nothing else though, i'll give them props for actually having the temerity to honestly believe they have a monopoly on truth and morality - despite all evidence to the contrary :rolleyes:
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Calibrated.
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So universities are going to be fined for preventing Islamists from speaking?
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Calibrated.)
So universities are going to be fined for preventing Islamists from speaking?
Where does it say that?
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Calibrated.
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(Original post by harrysbar)
Where does it say that?
First line of the article

Ministers will fine universities which stifle freedom of speech
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Calibrated.)
First line of the article
I would expect unis to be fined for encouraging speeches from any fundamentalists with an anti free speech agenda regardless of their religious/political backgrounds.
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Calibrated.
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(Original post by harrysbar)
I would expect unis to be fined for encouraging speeches from any fundamentalists with an anti free speech agenda regardless of their religious/political backgrounds.
When you start saying universities should be fined for encouraging ideas which are not state approved, you cease to be an advocate of freedom of speech.
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Theloniouss
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(Original post by ROTL94)
Completely absurd and sheltered opinion. This country's nothing like a dictatorship.
Boris just executed Starmer on live TV, haven't you heard?
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UnclePete
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(Original post by harrysbar)
The Woke Brigade always seem so angry like to have a different viewpoint is to be an evil person - they seem to have more in common with extremist groups then the liberal left they come from in that regard.

So by their biased logic, not wanting to see statues destroyed just because they want them to be is enough evidence to label you a racist 🤷🏼*♀️
I agree. Frankly I think it's all got rather silly.
I work with many coloured colleagues both African and Asian, we have a new neighbour, a special needs teacher of older teenagers in London -a demanding job at the best of times -whose family originate from Ghana, and the colour of their skin is not even something I either care, worry or think about. All that bothers me is that they are good neighbours and competent colleagues which they are. This may upset some of the get on the bandwagon Woke contingent, but my experience is they can be just as racialist amongst themselves.
You cannot rewrite history. Learn from its positive and negative aspects and build on that .
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harrysbar
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(Original post by Calibrated.)
When you start saying universities should be fined for encouraging ideas which are not state approved, you cease to be an advocate of freedom of speech.
Unis should encourage a wide range of ideas and free speech including those not "state approved" such as criticism of Boris and co, but the line has to be drawn at extremism as that is a danger to society.
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harrysbar
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(Original post by UnclePete)
This may upset some of the get on the bandwagon Woke contingent, but my experience is they can be just as racialist amongst themselves.
Of course they can - that is common sense and anyone who says otherwise is blinkered. I have Asian colleagues who openly say they wouldn't allow their children to marry a White person or a Black person.

Racism/Sexism/Homophobia is not confined to the "gammons" as the Woke label middle aged white men
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