Why should Britain pay reparations to her former colonies?

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fenton484
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I find this idea absurd. What exactly are we paying them for? The British Empire did some pretty questionable things, but we were saints compared to, for instance, the French. It's of no coincidence that all of Africa's top economies (Nigeria, Egypt, S.A and Ghana) are all ex-British posessions. Meanwhile - look at France's former colonies like Syria, Lebanon, Mali etc which are all in chaos. Whilst Britain did participate in the slave trade initally, through colonising Africa, it actually stopped the slave trade, as other groups like the Arabs would have enslaved the natives instead. The whole idea of this, along with say, taking down statues doesn't help black people. If you want to help black people, why not tackle the knife crime epidemic in cities like London, or help them out of poverty? The people in the former British colonies aren't living in absolute poverty, their economies are pretty good, with Nigeria Africa's biggest economy, and it will become even bigger. Colonialism wasn't a uniquely British thing, basically every society has colonised some place at some point. It was the norm. Not saying its right, but if we pay reparations, then maybe Italy should pay reparations for the Romans conquering Europe, Africa and Asia, or maybe Spain should pay reparations for colonising the Americas, or maybe the Greeks should pay reparations for the conquests of Alexander the Great.
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glassalice
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(Original post by fenton484)
I find this idea absurd. What exactly are we paying them for? The British Empire did some pretty questionable things, but we were saints compared to, for instance, the French. It's of no coincidence that all of Africa's top economies (Nigeria, Egypt, S.A and Ghana) are all ex-British posessions. Meanwhile - look at France's former colonies like Syria, Lebanon, Mali etc which are all in chaos. Whilst Britain did participate in the slave trade initally, through colonising Africa, it actually stopped the slave trade, as other groups like the Arabs would have enslaved the natives instead. The whole idea of this, along with say, taking down statues doesn't help black people. If you want to help black people, why not tackle the knife crime epidemic in cities like London, or help them out of poverty? The people in the former British colonies aren't living in absolute poverty, their economies are pretty good, with Nigeria Africa's biggest economy, and it will become even bigger. Colonialism wasn't a uniquely British thing, basically every society has colonised some place at some point. It was the norm. Not saying its right, but if we pay reparations, then maybe Italy should pay reparations for the Romans conquering Europe, Africa and Asia, or maybe Spain should pay reparations for colonising the Americas, or maybe the Greeks should pay reparations for the conquests of Alexander the Great.
Britain payed the modern day equivalent of £17 BN to help bring slavery to an end. Whilst by any standards slave owners should be considered criminals, this was likely the only politically tenable solution to a barbaric problem.
People are still enslaved all the world, perhaps even on your street corner. There's no point in attempting to solve problems we can't solve because it is in the past.

The question I would be asking is what, if any responsibility does modern day Britain have towards her former colonies?
Are Britain's still profiting on a large scale from these colonies in a way which is detrimental to them?
And if so, would paying vast sums of money have a positive impact on these countries? Ie. Would this money be used to fund arm conflicts or fall in the hands of the currupt.

There is no point in the british public paying out large amounts of money just because of white guilt/ self loathing and a mad dash to appear as anti-rascit as possible without actually doing anything useful.

Inherited guilty/ culpability is a stupid concept, I agree.


It's estimated that there are approximately 13,000 slaves in the UK. If you would like to read more about this issue, follow this link.
Last edited by glassalice; 3 weeks ago
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Azagthoa
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Britain enacted extremely racist policies throughtout the world, committed genocides in Africa and India, and generally prevented the development of many nations across the globe taking the wealth for themselves. They absolutely should pay reparations for the harm caused not just to former colonies but to BAME individuals residing in the UK where racial inequality is rife.
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glassalice
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Britain enacted extremely racist policies throughtout the world, committed genocides in Africa and India, and generally prevented the development of many nations across the globe taking the wealth for themselves. They absolutely should pay reparations for the harm caused not just to former colonies but to BAME individuals residing in the UK where racial inequality is rife.
Many non-white individuals came to the UK by choice/ their ancestors did and not as a result of slavery.
You are completely deluded if you believe that paying non-white individuals money for being non-white would end racism. It would resulting in two things:

A huge increase in racial tension between communities, this brings with it an increase in hate crimes.
A huge growth in support for awful groups like The BNP, The National Front and other racist organisations. It would be the 'I told you so' moment.

If money could make amends the harms that are currently being done to non-Whites, does that imply that this is actually a class issue?

You are also assuming that all non-Whites uniformly suffer harms as a result of their skin colour. Some demographics, from an economic and eductional standpoint do extremely well.
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JOSH4598
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(Original post by glassalice)
There is no point in the british public paying out large amounts of money just because of white guilt/ self loathing and a mad dash to appear as anti-rascit as possible without actually doing anything useful.
(Original post by glassalice)
Many non-white individuals came to the UK by choice/ their ancestors did and not as a result of slavery.
You are completely deluded if you believe that paying non-white individuals money for being non-white would end racism. It would resulting in two things:

A huge increase in racial tension between communities, this brings with it an increase in hate crimes.
A huge growth in support for awful groups like The BNP, The National Front and other racist organisations. It would be the 'I told you so' moment.
I think glassalice provides the most convincing argument to this question.

Throwing money at problems generally doesn't solve them - any kind of reparations would just be a tokenistic response to an issue in the past. What would this money do, and why is it needed? An abundance of wealth doesn't instantly cancel out racism nor would it do anything to improve the relations between 'blacks' and 'whites'.

Even if a certain government was willing to entertain such an idea, siphoning wads of cash off to questionably corrupt regimes wouldn't help those in need abroad whatsoever.
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fallen_acorns
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No, I'm not a fan of things so blunt as reparations..

But I do believe that the UK has an extra responsibility towards nations that used to make up the empire. So if they are in need, or have a natural disaster or threat or crisis - I think we should always expect to be ready to help to the extent that we can, and with greater priority than we may give to any random other country.

The commonwealth somewhat serves this purpose.
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fenton484
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Britain enacted extremely racist policies throughtout the world, committed genocides in Africa and India, and generally prevented the development of many nations across the globe taking the wealth for themselves. They absolutely should pay reparations for the harm caused not just to former colonies but to BAME individuals residing in the UK where racial inequality is rife.
How could Britain prevent the development of "many nations" when these nations literally didn't even exist then. I'm sure BAME (a term i hate) people would much rather than just paying them off , we actually make useful policies to help them? Also, name me these genocides. Britain killed a lot of people, but genocide? It's debatable. There has to be clear intention to wipe out a population through genocide. As I said, the british weren't angels, but the French were on another level.
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Starship Trooper
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Even if it did work which it doesn't I would be against it and am against foreign aid in general.

So many parts of this country need redevelopment urgently and we're sending money away to other countries???

It is insane and borderline treason
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Britain enacted extremely racist policies throughtout the world, committed genocides in Africa and India, and generally prevented the development of many nations across the globe taking the wealth for themselves. They absolutely should pay reparations for the harm caused not just to former colonies but to BAME individuals residing in the UK where racial inequality is rife.
Or alternatively, woke people need to virtue signal.

Never met an ethnic minority who thinks what you’re saying is correct. They normally mock people like you for getting so triggered over something you have very little understanding of.

Are you an angry white woman who reads the Guardian? I suspect you are. Definitely middle class I’d say.

I remember asking the Indians on my course about how I should feel about British India. Their viewpoint was somebody was going to colonise them at some point from Europe and they’re glad it was the British.

Tell me of these Genocides we committed. I know of a recent one committed closer to home. What’s you’re take on that more recent genocide committed on an industrial scale
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Azagthoa
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(Original post by fenton484)
How could Britain prevent the development of "many nations" when these nations literally didn't even exist then. I'm sure BAME (a term i hate) people would much rather than just paying them off , we actually make useful policies to help them? Also, name me these genocides. Britain killed a lot of people, but genocide? It's debatable. There has to be clear intention to wipe out a population through genocide. As I said, the british weren't angels, but the French were on another level.
The British commited several genocides: 1) The Bengal famine which killed several millions of Indians deliverately under Churchill (the man was a mass murderer). 2) The genocide of the Irish - during the potato famine Irish exports to Britain were at an all time high, it was a targeted starvation and 3) The British in Kenya under Churchill had concentration camps where they killed millions.

Just proves the point where the atrocities commited by the British empire is simply not taught or glossed over in schools. White people MUST be taught the horrific actions of their ancestors that they have benefitted from, and what they can do to make it up to BAME people.
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Azagthoa
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(Original post by glassalice)
Many non-white individuals came to the UK by choice/ their ancestors did and not as a result of slavery.
You are completely deluded if you believe that paying non-white individuals money for being non-white would end racism. It would resulting in two things:

A huge increase in racial tension between communities, this brings with it an increase in hate crimes.
A huge growth in support for awful groups like The BNP, The National Front and other racist organisations. It would be the 'I told you so' moment.

If money could make amends the harms that are currently being done to non-Whites, does that imply that this is actually a class issue?

You are also assuming that all non-Whites uniformly suffer harms as a result of their skin colour. Some demographics, from an economic and eductional standpoint do extremely well.
Monetary reparations should be offered alongside a range of other community building programs for BAME communities. 1) Invest in Black communities and Black owned buisnesses, with tax breaks offered to any Black owned business and to any corporations with at least 50%+ BAME board members. 2) Decolonise the curriculums in schools and universities away from rigid whiteness, western based thinking and move towards a holistic education including the perspectives of BAME people and Black cultures. 3) Introduce mandatory weekly diversity and antiracist trainings at all companies, schools and universities.

Class is just one intersection of the privilege heirarchy. White working class kids still have the opportunities to succeed purely based on their race that are denied to BAME people. That they do not do well in school is due to them squandering their own privilege, not due to discrimination that BAME people face every day.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
The British commited several genocides: 1) The Bengal famine which killed several millions of Indians deliverately under Churchill (the man was a mass murderer). 2) The genocide of the Irish - during the potato famine Irish exports to Britain were at an all time high, it was a targeted starvation and 3) The British in Kenya under Churchill had concentration camps where they killed millions.

Just proves the point where the atrocities commited by the British empire is simply not taught or glossed over in schools. White people MUST be taught the horrific actions of their ancestors that they have benefitted from, and what they can do to make it up to BAME people.
Bengal Famine. A famine, not a genocide. The clues in the name.

Irish Potato famine. A famine, not a genocide. Again, the clues in the name.

the British in Kenya under Churchill. Very confused as to what you’re going on about there. I’m suspecting that you’re mixing up concentration camps in the Boer war and the Mau Mau uprising in Kenya. Again. Not a genocide. Those were armed conflict. One against whites and the other against communist backed guerilla’s intent on turning Kenya communist.

So, as a white girl trying to push out a highly politicised agenda that has little to do with caring about ethnic minorities. You’ve confused a natural famine where food was unable to be transported due to an ongoing war. The inability of the government to step in with social welfare actions in a time when social welfare didn’t really exist to help out white people in Ireland. And mixed up two armed conflicts.

Come on. You could’ve used the Black War of 1820.

What are your views of more recent genocides in Rwanda, former Yugoslavia and in Germany in WW2? They were proper genocides.
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glassalice
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Monetary reparations should be offered alongside a range of other community building programs for BAME communities. 1) Invest in Black communities and Black owned buisnesses, with tax breaks offered to any Black owned business and to any corporations with at least 50%+ BAME board members. 2) Decolonise the curriculums in schools and universities away from rigid whiteness, western based thinking and move towards a holistic education including the perspectives of BAME people and Black cultures. 3) Introduce mandatory weekly diversity and antiracist trainings at all companies, schools and universities.

Class is just one intersection of the privilege heirarchy. White working class kids still have the opportunities to succeed purely based on their race that are denied to BAME people. That they do not do well in school is due to them squandering their own privilege, not due to discrimination that BAME people face every day.
What on earth does 'ridged whiteness' and 'western thinking' mean?
I think you have a disgusting attitude towards white working class. You don't like them because they don't confirm your world view.

Again, what makes you think that this isn't going to start a race war? How would you explain to the white working class who are struggling every day to put food on their table that they don't deserve repreations, despite being disenfranchised by the current system?

(Original post by Azagthoa)
Just proves the point where the atrocities commited by the British empire is simply not taught or glossed over in schools. White people MUST be taught the horrific actions of their ancestors that they have benefitted from, and what they can do to make it up to BAME people.
White people today are in no way responsible for their ancestors actions. Sorry to keep on hammering the point, but the white working class clearly aren't benefiting from said actions in any material way.

Should we also teach students about the horrors of political Islam, then pick out the Muslim students and tell them that their people are responsible for this?
Should we teach students about genocide, then tell students with a Chinese ethnic background that their people are responsible?
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fenton484
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
The British commited several genocides: 1) The Bengal famine which killed several millions of Indians deliverately under Churchill (the man was a mass murderer). 2) The genocide of the Irish - during the potato famine Irish exports to Britain were at an all time high, it was a targeted starvation and 3) The British in Kenya under Churchill had concentration camps where they killed millions.

Just proves the point where the atrocities commited by the British empire is simply not taught or glossed over in schools. White people MUST be taught the horrific actions of their ancestors that they have benefitted from, and what they can do to make it up to BAME people.
Bengal famine was a FAMINE. It's in the name.
Again with the irish, its debatable.
As for Kenya? That was in response to the Mau Mau uprising. Not a genocide.

I agree we should teach more about the British Empire.

"Make it up to BAME people" what the hell have you been smoking? You really think paying the ancestors of the people we supposedly "genocided" is going to "make it up"?
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by glassalice)
What on earth does 'ridged whiteness' and 'western thinking' mean?
I think you have a disgusting attitude towards white working class. You don't like them because they don't confirm your world view.

Again, what makes you think that this isn't going to start a race war? How would you explain to the white working class who are struggling every day to put food on their table that they don't deserve repreations, despite being disenfranchised by the current system?


White people today are in no way responsible for their ancestors actions. Sorry to keep on hammering the point, but the white working class clearly aren't benefiting from said actions in any material way.

Should we also teach students about the horrors of political Islam, then pick out the Muslim students and tell them that their people are responsible for this?
Should we teach students about genocide, then tell students with a Chinese ethnic background that their people are responsible?
Let’s not forget about Europeans targeting the Jews. Always a good one to highlight to Germans that they were complicity in the Holocaust. French SS volunteers were the ones who defended hitlers bunker to the last. Holland’s very high per capita volunteer rate into the SS. Belgian volunteers fanaticism on the eastern front. Poland’s anti Semitic rhetoric that didn’t really help the Jews too much. Ukrainian nationalist etc etc etc.

There’s a general trend on the left of attacking the fabric of British society. This seems to be a continuing legacy of Stalin’s long reaching approach of using useful idiots in the 30s to undermine his enemies. It’s just carried on as these useful idiots didn’t really understand how they were getting manipulated.
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Gaddafi
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The only regions I can think of where the British empire actually did damage is the creation of Israel and the creation of modern India. As neither can be undone - I do not believe we should concern ourselves with this topic.
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glassalice
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(Original post by MatureStudent37)
Let’s not forget about Europeans targeting the Jews. Always a good one to highlight to Germans that they were complicity in the Holocaust. French SS volunteers were the ones who defended hitlers bunker to the last. Holland’s very high per capita volunteer rate into the SS. Belgian volunteers fanaticism on the eastern front. Poland’s anti Semitic rhetoric that didn’t really help the Jews too much. Ukrainian nationalist etc etc etc.

There’s a general trend on the left of attacking the fabric of British society. This seems to be a continuing legacy of Stalin’s long reaching approach of using useful idiots in the 30s to undermine his enemies. It’s just carried on as these useful idiots didn’t really understand how they were getting manipulated.
They probably don't care because many Jews are white, so therefore it counters the narrative of white privilege/ intersectionality. In the exact same way that they hold a special disdain for the white working class, to be clear I am certainly not comparing the plight of the Jew's with that of the working class'.

The white Left cannot stand it's self- they perceive themselves as being their own enemy. This results in an inability to solve the actually problems that are occurring in our society.
You cannot allow large numbers of migrants into the county who believe in ideals that are completely at odds to British/ liberal values, then refuse to deal with the fallout because being perceived as not being racist is more important than protecting the liberty of white girls. It's sickening, but it's where our white self hatred leads us.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....67549420985852
Or this academic manifesto of hate self directed against white women. If you didn't realise you would assume that it had been written by a men's rights activist.
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MatureStudent37
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(Original post by glassalice)
They probably don't care because many Jews are white, so therefore it counters the narrative of white privilege/ intersectionality. In the exact same way that they hold a special disdain for the white working class, to be clear I am certainly not comparing the plight of the Jew's with that of the working class'.

The white Left cannot stand it's self- they perceive themselves as being their own enemy. This results in an inability to solve the actually problems that are occurring in our society.
You cannot allow large numbers of migrants into the county who believe in ideals that are completely at odds to British/ liberal values, then refuse to deal with the fallout because being perceived as not being racist is more important than protecting the liberty of white girls. It's sickening, but it's where our white self hatred leads us.

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10....67549420985852
Or this academic manifesto of hate self directed against white women. If you didn't realise you would assume that it had been written by a men's rights activist.
Is suspect that the left have targeted Jews at the moment as they perceive that Israel is propped up by the great Satan. The capitalist United States of America.

That’s the new attack on capitalism. Attack it’s history and never, ever, ever question the history of failed communist country’s who’s butchers bill is not only more recent, but makes the capitalist west butchers bill look insignificant.

Has their been historical racism. Most definitely. Have we acknowledged it? I think we have. Should we continue to espouse faux outrage in order to demonstrate how caring we are? No. I’ve often found that the more ‘right on’ people are, the less tolerant they become. I’ve never found a member of the extreme left/ANTIFA particularly benevolent, just as I have never found extreme right wingers particularly benevolent. Nor have I found deeply religious people particularly benevolent. It’s identity politics at its worse. If you’re not part of my group, you’re the enemy.
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Starship Trooper
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All nations commit genocides and colonise others from time to time other than those who are too weak to- not because they're morally better. For centuries Europe was under attack by strong Islamic countries such as the Moors and Ottomans.

I'm glad that Britain was colonised by the Romans and civilised us despite them enslaving and massacring us along the way.

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The British Empire was a force for got good in the world despite having committed atrocities (something squeamish British patriots should acknowledge rather than pretend didn't happen)

What I would say to liberal types who condemn this as well anti white types is that the primitive pre colonial cultures were doing before that was often much worse: their slaves were often treated much worse than in America and they had all sorts of horrific conditions and rituals such as ritual child torture, burying slaves alive with their dead owners and were also engaged in near constant tribal warfare and raiding.

The idea that Africa would be the equivalent to China or even a first world country today without colonialism is for the birds and is about Trying to comfort people's feelings.

I should add that this isn't a racial thing. As I said if it hadn't been for the Romans Anglo-Saxons could still be living in swamps worshipping Trees and there has existed times when non white civilisation were ahead of white people - imperial China obviously but also perhaps some African kingdoms and Ancient Egypt.

I also think that as a Christian if is amusing to me to see so many African Christians come into the UK to spread the word of the Gospel in this Godless country. Truly history is cyclical and it would not surprise me if the west continues down this route of liberal nihilism that African nations with a strong Christian tradition will overcome us.
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Strange5050
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Why Britain? Why not the French, the Dutch, Italian (former Roman Empire), Mongolian, Greek, Egyptian, or Germans to the Jews?

Britain was not the first nation to adopt slavery, it had being going on for hundreds of years prior to the British Empire. If you're wanting Britain to pay reparations (which others have said here will solve absolutely nothing), then surely every Empire or nation which has ever adopted slavery should be forced to equally pay reparation towards the ethnic groups they enslaved?

There's likely individuals living in the UK who's family has never been effected by slavery. So then what? You want to pay them for simply being an ethnic minority?
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