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QMUL Law LLB VS KCL FOUNDATION

I know it sounds like a “what is he talking about?!?” but let me explain my situation.

My question is that if you had a chance to go Qmul Law and KCL foundation, which one would you prefer to go? Qmul is my dream university and it has 3 years which is shorter than KCL with foundation. On the other hand, as you all know rankings and prestigious of universities are not at the same point. I just confused to prefer whichever to go.

Please help me to answer this question and give some solid examples for that.

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Original post by EsadBeren
I know it sounds like a “what is he talking about?!?” but let me explain my situation.

My question is that if you had a chance to go Qmul Law and KCL foundation, which one would you prefer to go? Qmul is my dream university and it has 3 years which is shorter than KCL with foundation. On the other hand, as you all know rankings and prestigious of universities are not at the same point. I just confused to prefer whichever to go.

Please help me to answer this question and give some solid examples for that.

I was much in the same position in 2016, when deciding which University to attend. In the end KCL won me over for the strength of its modules and teaching staff, but also the atmosphere of the University at its campuses (Somerset House is stunning). At the end of the day, when applying for Training Contracts or Pupillages, the ranking of the uni has minimal impact, as most are marked blindly.
I would consider the following: which areas of law (if any) are you drawn to, and is one uni stronger at these?; where do you feel you will better succeed (a 1st at QMUL has much much more weight than a 2:1 at KCL for example); are there any sports/societies you enjoy, does the university offer this? (for me, only KCL had my desired sport); have you been to open days, or spoken to previous students, which drew you initially?
It seems QMUL attracts you more - I would go with this gut feeling! If you enjoy your time at uni you will perform better, paying off at the end of the day. I hope this is of use!
Reply 2
i also applied to QMUL for law and KCL for law! I’m waiting to hear from KCL but got an offer form QMUL. Initially, i applied to QMUL as a back up and KCL and UCL as my top choices bec of the prestige but after research i found out that QMUL is also very amazing for law (and medicine.) I knew i would be happier at QMUL because of the type of students and the location. It is in East London so keep that in mind but it doesn’t really bother me since i’ll be living out and so will be tight for money anyway. QMUL is only 15 mins tube from central.
I’d go with the one that YOU want to go with because after all it’s going to be the next 3 years of your life. in terms of internship/ employability, the name of the uni on your cv won’t be enough so as long as you network and get lots of experience you should be good regardless of which uni you choose. :smile:
Reply 3
I am very thankful for your kindly responses. I am just between the foundation year and regular program. As far as I know, Qmul also have a opportunity that famous and big libraries are also open for them where KCL, LSE, UCL students work together. It would be a good opportunity to make network. However, KCL also very very prestigious school and one year would be a good opportunity that give me a chance to learn English Legal system more effectively. I will also have a more time to strengthen my English. I am waiting for my school counselor who can lead me to choose whether I need to go.

By the way, if I am not mistaken KCL Foundation program will support you to go other unis such as Lse, Warwick, UCL and etc. Most of them prefer to progress on KCL. Is it really hard or easy to be graduated from foundation program? Could you please inform me about it?

Thanks in advance.
Reply 4
In addition, I got offer from Exeter. Which one should I go?

Exeter - Law LLB 3 years
Queen Mary - Law LLB 3 years
King’s College London - Foundation program
I don’t think any of us can answer this question for you, it should be down to your personal preferences and circumstances.

Foundation vs Law LLB
Between these two courses, I would ask yourself if you feel ready to head straight into a law degree, as you mention your English could still use some work. I personally don’t have any experience of foundation programmes, despite speaking English as a second language (albeit at a native capacity), so I can’t comment on whether they are challenging or if universities like them. If you think you might struggle to perform well by heading straight into your LLB, this might be a good option, however, I would also bear in mind that this is more costly. I don’t believe it would disadvantage or advantage you for jobs (apart from assisting you in getting better grades in your LLB) but it is an extra year of study.

QMUL vs Exeter
Living in London is an entirely different experience to attending university in smaller cities, again this comes down to what you will thrive in. I find that London is more competitive, pushing me to perform better. Having attended open days at both, they all have great facilities and libraries. I preferred QMUL’s teaching standards to Exeters, but I would recommend looking at the structure of the courses, the optional modules available, and costs of living in either city when making your decision.

At the end of the day, there is no right answer! It is all down to where you will perform best grades matter a LOT. So, will foundation help you perform better? Which university suits you more? That is what you should be thinking about, not just reputation. I hope this helps.
Reply 6
Thank you so much indeed. I have thought about it too much and I decided to choose KCL foundation. Because one year looks like has more beneficial opportunities for me. After this questioning myself, I hope I will be happy end of the day. Thanks for everything you have mentioned and said about the question also guys. I really appreciated that.
Original post by EsadBeren
Thank you so much indeed. I have thought about it too much and I decided to choose KCL foundation. Because one year looks like has more beneficial opportunities for me. After this questioning myself, I hope I will be happy end of the day. Thanks for everything you have mentioned and said about the question also guys. I really appreciated that.

Best of luck! I'm sure great things are in store in your future :smile:
Would it be worth doing Law with Foundation year at Durham over Law at Exeter?
Original post by samirxarif
Would it be worth doing Law with Foundation year at Durham over Law at Exeter?

Referring back to my previous comments, I don't think any of us can really tell you what the right choice for your personal circumstances are. I would suggest thinking about:
a) will the foundation year be useful for you? for example, like the creator of this thread, would it allow you time to familiarise yourself with the language, so you might perform better in your LLB? or on the other hand, would it simply incur extra fees and require you to take another year without much gain?
b) do you have any preference to either university? both offer well respected law degrees, but have quite different atmospheres, perhaps one appeals to you more than the other? It is important that you attend a university you will be happy at, as that directly influences your grades. Does one offer specialist modules that the other does not (e.g. medical law, environmental law, etc.)?

At the end of the day, in my opinion it is all about thinking what will best set you up to achieve the highest grades possible at whatever university you attend. A 1st class degree at Exeter has greater value than a 2:1 at Durham despite league table rankings.
Original post by samirxarif
Would it be worth doing Law with Foundation year at Durham over Law at Exeter?

i don't see why anyone would waste a year of their life doing a foundation year to get into a marginally better uni. it doesn't help you with employers. it costs a lot of money. it doesn't cancel out bad A-levels. there's an enormous opportunity cost given that you could be spending that same year on the other side doing an LLM or paralegalling. the jump from Exeter-->Durham or QMUL-->KCL is really not that big. i doubt there's even a prestige gap

speaking as someone who found it a lot easier to get a TC once I had paralegalling work experience and the LPC under my belt, i'd suggest you use the time and ££££ you saved on doing those after you graduate



(also to reiterate: exeter really is a great uni and I doubt that going there will affect your life prospects in any way)
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by Nightwish1234
Referring back to my previous comments, I don't think any of us can really tell you what the right choice for your personal circumstances are. I would suggest thinking about:
a) will the foundation year be useful for you? for example, like the creator of this thread, would it allow you time to familiarise yourself with the language, so you might perform better in your LLB? or on the other hand, would it simply incur extra fees and require you to take another year without much gain?
b) do you have any preference to either university? both offer well respected law degrees, but have quite different atmospheres, perhaps one appeals to you more than the other? It is important that you attend a university you will be happy at, as that directly influences your grades. Does one offer specialist modules that the other does not (e.g. medical law, environmental law, etc.)?

At the end of the day, in my opinion it is all about thinking what will best set you up to achieve the highest grades possible at whatever university you attend. A 1st class degree at Exeter has greater value than a 2:1 at Durham despite league table rankings.

this is such a great and realistic post. wish there were more users like you lol.

the point about league tables is something that people don't really 'get', esp if they don't come from a professional background. so many students have it drilled into them that league tables matter above all else. it's stupid.
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by EU Yakov
i don't see why anyone would waste a year of their life doing a foundation year to get into a marginally better uni. it doesn't help you with employers. it costs a lot of money. it doesn't cancel out bad A-levels. there's an enormous opportunity cost given that you could be spending that same year on the other side doing an LLM or paralegalling. the jump from Exeter-->Durham or QMUL-->KCL is really not that big. i doubt there's even a prestige gap

speaking as someone who found it a lot easier to get a TC once I had paralegalling work experience and the LPC under my belt, i'd suggest you use the time and ££££ you saved on doing those after you graduate



(also to reiterate: exeter really is a great uni and I doubt that going there will affect your life prospects in any way)

I think a foundation year can be of benefit to some, albeit perhaps a limited few. For example, if your English competency isn’t great (a must for law school unfortunately), if you don’t come from an academically rigorous background (e.g. hardship in earlier years caused you to miss out on classes and could use brushing up on essay techniques, or perhaps come from another country where the curriculums vary vastly), or indeed any other reason you feel your competencies are lacking.
It’s all very much down to personal circumstances - as you said, if it is to add to your CV it won’t do much, and it likely won’t help you secure Pupillage or a TC in its own right.

So, if a user is considering a foundation year for their own sake, to allow them to go into their degree and perform to the very best of their ability - absolutely, go ahead! Whereas if it is because they think it will give them a step ahead of other applicants, then as you suggest, they might better invest their time and money into more valuable experience (although how much is available pre-LLB I’m unsure) which is available in abundance after you graduate.

The biggest priority should be how can you get the best grades possible as in my experience that’s what gets your foot in the door for most places, and the additional experience is what gets you the place. Without good grades you might struggle. League tables, and all the rest is secondary (albeit of some relevance).

Edited because I really can’t spell today 😅
(edited 2 years ago)
Original post by EU Yakov
this is such a great and realistic post. wish there were more users like you lol.

the point about league tables is something that people don't really 'get', esp if they don't come from a professional background. so many students have it drilled into them that league tables matter above all else. it's stupid.

Nothing like learning from experience 😂 I thought I would struggle having declined an oxbridge offer for a university I preferred - I was surprised to find that has very rarely been an issue in my application (instead I fell short in other capacities lol). If it is an issue, I’d rethink it that’s somewhere you want to work anyway.
Original post by EsadBeren
Thank you so much indeed. I have thought about it too much and I decided to choose KCL foundation. Because one year looks like has more beneficial opportunities for me. After this questioning myself, I hope I will be happy end of the day. Thanks for everything you have mentioned and said about the question also guys. I really appreciated that.

For what it’s worth as I’m late to the thread, I think you made the right choice for you. Not because there is anything wrong with studying Law at QMUL or Exeter, but because it will be beneficial to improve your written English and in the great scene of things, what’s an extra year if it makes you a better applicant further down the line for the sort of job you want? I hope you enjoy the Kings foundation year and it will give you lots of options going forward.
Reply 15
Is qmul good for law, I got an offer for their law course and I’m considering firming it I would just like some outsider input :smile:
Original post by Nightwish1234
I think a foundation year can be of benefit to some, albeit perhaps a limited few. For example, if your English competency isn’t great (a must for law school unfortunately), if you don’t come from an academically rigorous background (e.g. hardship in earlier years caused you to miss out on classes and could use brushing up on essay techniques, or perhaps come from another country where the curriculums vary vastly), or indeed any other reason you feel your competencies are lacking.
It’s all very much down to personal circumstances - as you said, if it is to add to your CV it won’t do much, and it likely won’t help you secure Pupillage or a TC in its own right.

So, if a user is considering a foundation year for their own sake, to allow them to go into their degree and perform to the very best of their ability - absolutely, go ahead! Whereas if it is because they think it will give them a step ahead of other applicants, then as you suggest, they might better invest their time and money into more valuable experience (although how much is available pre-LLB I’m unsure) which is available in abundance after you graduate.

The biggest priority should be how can you get the best grades possible as in my experience that’s what gets your foot in the door for most places, and the additional experience is what gets you the place. Without good grades you might struggle. League tables, and all the rest is secondary (albeit of some relevance).

Edited because I really can’t spell today 😅

tbh i don't disagree with your first point, but if your english is that bad or the change in curricula is that great you shouldn't be studying in the uk (not "you" you, in general :biggrin:). having the academic skills to do well at uni does matter and the one thing that everyone with a TC does have is really good english

i was only suggesting that the OP save up a year now so that they can graduate a year earlier and use that year once they have their degree.

this isn't relevant to the thread, but i always found gap years right after school to be something for the idle upper middle classes. most of us can't afford to jet around for 12 months and can't get meaningful work experience as a school leaver with no other qualifications. it's not like we all have hedge funds to """intern""" at! it's why i'm a big fan of being getting done with uni asap so they can get real world work experience (and get paid for that work experience too)

Original post by Elma221
Is qmul good for law, I got an offer for their law course and I’m considering firming it I would just like some outsider input :smile:

it's seen as a really good uni for law and medicine, definitely up there with other reputable unis
as for the rest of the courses, eh....
Original post by Elma221
Is qmul good for law, I got an offer for their law course and I’m considering firming it I would just like some outsider input :smile:

Yes, QMUL is highly regarded for their law courses and have some excellent professors. You certainly won't be at any disadvantage regarding job applications for attending QMUL (I heard rumor it is easier to get a good grade there, but this is very very subjective).

My personal opinion of QMUL was that although the facilities are good, these are less impressive than other London based competitors such as KCL, LSE and UCL. QMUL has fewer/smaller sports and other societities than these universities also, but equally they have some niche ones no other university has! An advantage is that as they are somewhat less central, you can save on rent and still be close to campus. From friends studying at QMUL, I heard great things and they enjoyed their time there, finding the social life was on par with other universities (however, in saying that, their campus being further from the center means you might not run into students from other unis as often).
I attended guest lectures there and wasn't as impressed by their teaching (compared to KCL, UCL, LSHTM etc.) but this is a small insight into the teaching of only a select few lecturers and not representative of the university as a whole. The only downside to QMUL in my eyes is the lack of research opportunities, if you feel academia might be something you are interested in.
Reply 18
Original post by Nightwish1234
Yes, QMUL is highly regarded for their law courses and have some excellent professors. You certainly won't be at any disadvantage regarding job applications for attending QMUL (I heard rumor it is easier to get a good grade there, but this is very very subjective).

My personal opinion of QMUL was that although the facilities are good, these are less impressive than other London based competitors such as KCL, LSE and UCL. QMUL has fewer/smaller sports and other societities than these universities also, but equally they have some niche ones no other university has! An advantage is that as they are somewhat less central, you can save on rent and still be close to campus. From friends studying at QMUL, I heard great things and they enjoyed their time there, finding the social life was on par with other universities (however, in saying that, their campus being further from the center means you might not run into students from other unis as often).
I attended guest lectures there and wasn't as impressed by their teaching (compared to KCL, UCL, LSHTM etc.) but this is a small insight into the teaching of only a select few lecturers and not representative of the university as a whole. The only downside to QMUL in my eyes is the lack of research opportunities, if you feel academia might be something you are interested in.

Thank you so much for your reply, I’m doing straight law so I’m happy to hear their law course is good! Xx
Original post by EU Yakov
tbh i don't disagree with your first point, but if your english is that bad or the change in curricula is that great you shouldn't be studying in the uk (not "you" you, in general :biggrin:). having the academic skills to do well at uni does matter and the one thing that everyone with a TC does have is really good english

i was only suggesting that the OP save up a year now so that they can graduate a year earlier and use that year once they have their degree.

this isn't relevant to the thread, but i always found gap years right after school to be something for the idle upper middle classes. most of us can't afford to jet around for 12 months and can't get meaningful work experience as a school leaver with no other qualifications. it's not like we all have hedge funds to """intern""" at! it's why i'm a big fan of being getting done with uni asap so they can get real world work experience (and get paid for that work experience too)

I only mention poor English as sometimes if you are multi-lingual, some time to acclimatise can be valuable, as the language of the law is beyond that you might encounter in day-to-day life - I would not recommend reading Law if one's English is below fluent proficiency. For example, I am native in another language, however having not studied at A-Level/IB in that language, I would not feel comfortable going straight into a law degree in this language without some time preparing.

It is quite difficult to advise any of these students without knowing exactly their personal circumstances, I would generally shy away from a foundation year as the benefit it confers is limited, yet for some it may be the difference between a 1st and 2:1, or even a 2:2. The path to qualifying as a lawyer is already incredibly costly and time consuming, so they should only take a foundation year if they can directly identify how it will help them.

I'm not sure I agree regarding gap years, simply because I am reluctant to offer generalised criticisms: perhaps some need time out of education to work out exactly what they want to read or this will allow them to commence university with a healthy, determined mindset. Personally, I have been set on practice at the bar since before my GCSEs, so a gap year made no sense, although I ended up taking one after my LLM to fund the professional training stage.

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