wyann LT
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Are there strong similarities between studying for usmle exam and uk medical school exams?
I dont think I will work as a doc in america therefore not do the usmle, and I was thinking about whether I should study for the usmle (basically learn the first aid book) on top of my med school lectures to boost my knowledge; by the way I may not pay for anything and I got the first aid book for free online.
Having said this, do doctors/ registrars in specialty training, consultants in uk do the usmle exam?
I was thinking that if I am in my mid 30s and I want to go to US to work if I have completed all of the usmle exams I have the freedom to do so? Is there an expiry date to the usmle e.g I do all of the usmle exams within the 7 year window and I can apply to the US whenever in my life?
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Are there strong similarities between studying for usmle exam and uk medical school exams
Well obviously there will be bits where the UK med school and the USMLE curriculum overlap, but the UK med schools are not teaching you specifically to pass the USMLE (as opposed to the US med schools).


Having said this, do doctors/ registrars in specialty training, consultants in uk do the usmle exam?
Erm, not if they don't want to study in the US ever? I personally know only a handful of doctors who did it / planned to do it.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
Well obviously there will be bits where the UK med school and the USMLE curriculum overlap, but the UK med schools are not teaching you specifically to pass the USMLE (as opposed to the US med schools).




Erm, not if they don't want to study in the US ever? I personally know only a handful of doctors who did it / planned to do it.
What are the pros and cons of being a neurosurgeon in the uk as opposed to the us?
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
What are the pros and cons of being a neurosurgeon in the uk as opposed to the us?
:lol: Your question has nothing to do with the first post of this thread.

Plus I wouldn't know the pros and cons of being a doctor in the US anyway :dontknow:, apart from working much tougher hours and being paid much more.
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by wyann LT)
What are the pros and cons of being a neurosurgeon in the uk as opposed to the us?
:facepalm:

Anyway, entertaining this for a minute, essentially in the US the training period is shorter to the equivalent CCT level in the UK. However that is because the US does not have EU worknig directive laws in place, which means you can and will work 80-120 hour weeks regularly there, and have 24-48 hour shifts regularly. You will have zero quality of life as a trainee doctor in the US, especially in surgical specialties. Something to note is that as far as I'm aware many neurosurgery programmes in the US mandate their trainees undertake a period of research, many choosing to get a PhD in that time. This may or may not be desirable, and if you got a PhD then it might take longer to qualify.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
:lol: Your question has nothing to do with the first post of this thread.

Plus I wouldn't know the pros and cons of being a doctor in the US anyway :dontknow:, apart from working much tougher hours and being paid much more.
I was contemplating the idea of training in the US when I get older e.g. mid 30s- 40s
...but I wanted to know if there is a major difference e.g in US th training is 7 years for neuro and uk is 8 for neuro
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Democracy
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(Original post by wyann LT)
I was contemplating the idea of training in the US when I get older e.g. mid 30s- 40s
...but I wanted to know if there is a major difference e.g in US th training is 7 years for neuro and uk is 8 for neuro
Mate by the time you're in your mid-30s or 40s you'll be wanting to finish training not start it in another country.

Maybe focus on getting into medical school first?!
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
I was contemplating the idea of training in the US when I get older e.g. mid 30s- 40s
...but I wanted to know if there is a major difference e.g in US th training is 7 years for neuro and uk is 8 for neuro
I don't have a clue how long it takes to train to be a neurosurgeon in the US.

I would assume it is equally, if not more competitive over there and people may also have to take year(s) out to build up their portfolio.

Again I could well be wrong since I am definitely not an expert at post-grad medical training of the USA.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by artful_lounger)
:facepalm:

Anyway, entertaining this for a minute, essentially in the US the training period is shorter to the equivalent CCT level in the UK. However that is because the US does not have EU worknig directive laws in place, which means you can and will work 80-120 hour weeks regularly there, and have 24-48 hour shifts regularly. You will have zero quality of life as a trainee doctor in the US, especially in surgical specialties. Something to note is that as far as I'm aware many neurosurgery programmes in the US mandate their trainees undertake a period of research, many choosing to get a PhD in that time. This may or may not be desirable, and if you got a PhD then it might take longer to qualify.
Q What are the training hours for neurosurgeons in the uk under eu working directive? Q Does it essentially means that if a neurosurgeon in the uk worked for the same number of hours as a neurosurgeon in the US, they can gain far higher income?
Am I correct in saying that basically being a neurosurgeon in the US is far more draining/exhausting and cannot enjoy your lifestyle as much as opposed to the UK
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Q What are the training hours for neurosurgeons in the uk under eu working directive? Q Does it essentially means that if a neurosurgeon in the uk worked for the same number of hours as a neurosurgeon in the US, they can gain far higher income?
Am I correct in saying that basically being a neurosurgeon in the US is far more draining/exhausting and cannot enjoy your lifestyle as much as opposed to the UK
Everything you are asking could change by the time you are there - as Democracy said, focus on getting into med school first.

Just to entertain you - Q1 EWTD limits all workers to work to an average weekly 48 hours but you can opt-out of it; Q2 "income" depends on many things - I doubt someone on a purely NHS consultant wage will ever beat the US attending's wage, ever on a per-hourly basis; and Q3 your lifestyle depends on you, some people can still enjoy life working 90-100 hours per week.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
Everything you are asking could change by the time you are there - as Democracy said, focus on getting into med school first.

Just to entertain you - Q1 EWTD limits all workers to work to an average weekly 48 hours but you can opt-out of it; Q2 "income" depends on many things - I doubt someone on a purely NHS consultant wage will ever beat the US attending's wage, ever on a per-hourly basis; and Q3 your lifestyle depends on you, some people can still enjoy life working 90-100 hours per week.
What happens if you opt out of EWTD and just do more extra hours for further income? Is that illegal?
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
What happens if you opt out of EWTD and just do more extra hours for further income? Is that illegal?
You will need to seek authorisation, and may not be covered by medical indemnity insurance if you work over and above your hours and made a mistake.
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artful_lounger
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Q What are the training hours for neurosurgeons in the uk under eu working directive? Q Does it essentially means that if a neurosurgeon in the uk worked for the same number of hours as a neurosurgeon in the US, they can gain far higher income?
Am I correct in saying that basically being a neurosurgeon in the US is far more draining/exhausting and cannot enjoy your lifestyle as much as opposed to the UK
Ecolier I think has answered this quite well, although I would point out on the US side while doctors there do earn more, they also personally pay for their medical malpractice insurance out of pocket which is a significant outgoing for most doctors in the US. I'm not entirely sure how it works here, I might've thought that was covered by the NHS and this could account for some of the differences in the final salary, since you aren't going to be paying that yourself here? ecolier (or any of the TSR doctors!) would know more about that than me though

Also something to note that the top end averages for US doctors are for those working for themselves in private practice. To be successful in doing so, this requires some entrepreneurial skills which medical school isn't necessarily going to prepare you for, and you will have various overheads (rent for your work place, salaries you pay to your nurses and administrative staff and any other doctors on your staff), etc. Also this is not something you can do as a trainee doctor, and hospital based doctors tend to earn on average less than those working for themselves. Further, given the nature of neurosurgery I don't think you're likely to be able to open your own private practice for that anyway...

A practical matter to consider as well is that you would actually need to get into a neurosurgical training programme in the US first (well, as noted above you actually need to get into medical school first if you are not already a medical student), the chances of which are basically zero if you aren't a US citizen. Due to how US working visa sponsorship works, you will only realistically be able to apply to undersubscribed specialties (e.g. family medicine, rural medicine, psychiatry), and even then you need to be really standout. To be sponsored for a working visa in the US, your employer needs to demonstrate there are no suitably qualified American applicants for that job. Even if that is the case, you then need to beat out many other well qualified and talented IMGs for those spots. Thus, for something like neurosurgery (or any surgical training programme), this will never be the case, because there will always be plenty of American applicants who are qualified for it (more than there are spaces on such programmes). I gather it's also hard for IMGs anyway due to requirements to get their degrees validated as equivalent to a US MD, and possible prejudice against them in the hiring process (which, because it's the US, there are undoubtedly very few laws against).
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wyann LT
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Is it good to use the USMLE first aid textbook as a good medical school textbook for the uk curriculum and learning in uk med schools in general as the book covers all the topics such as embryology, immunology, pathology anatomy, physiology, genetics, biochemistry etc, instead of buying massive textbooks which is only about physiology (e.g guytons)?
I know the med school exams will be set using only lectures, but having a textbook to add a different perspective is nice?
btw I have the usmle first aid book for free online so is it worth reading and making notes for uk med school prep

thanks
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
Is it good to use the USMLE first aid textbook as a good medical school textbook for the uk curriculum and learning in uk med schools in general as the book covers all the topics such as embryology, immunology, pathology anatomy, physiology, genetics, biochemistry etc, instead of buying massive textbooks which is only about physiology (e.g guytons)?
I know the med school exams will be set using only lectures, but having a textbook to add a different perspective is nice?
btw I have the usmle first aid book for free online so is it worth reading and making notes for uk med school prep

thanks
There is not a single "UK curriculum". Which UK med school are you talking about?
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
There is not a single "UK curriculum". Which UK med school are you talking about?
liverpool
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
liverpool
I don't know any Liverpool medics so I can't comment.

What year are you asking about? If you're not in med school yet there really is no need to be studying medicine.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
I don't know any Liverpool medics so I can't comment.

What year are you asking about? If you're not in med school yet there really is no need to be studying medicine.
1st year; i dont wanna read books on e.g immunology or biochemistry as there is soo much content I just dont need to know about so I though it would be good to read the usmle first aid book as it splits all the general principles down that medics can use
Is this a good idea?
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ecolier
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(Original post by wyann LT)
1st year; i dont wanna read books on e.g immunology or biochemistry as there is soo much content I just dont need to know about so I though it would be good to read the usmle first aid book as it splits all the general principles down that medics can use
Is this a good idea?
It's a good idea to study according to your med school's curriculum.

Do you know if immunology or biochemistry will be appearing in your upcoming tests?

There is of course a lot of general medical knowledge that will for forever hold true whether you're studying Medicine in Japan or Bolivia, but equally you'll be wasting time and effort if you are studying for a test that you wouldn't be doing, and missed content that you will assessed on.
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wyann LT
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(Original post by ecolier)
It's a good idea to study according to your med school's curriculum.

Do you know if immunology or biochemistry will be appearing in your upcoming tests?

There is of course a lot of general medical knowledge that will for forever hold true whether you're studying Medicine in Japan or Bolivia, but equally you'll be wasting time and effort if you are studying for a test that you wouldn't be doing, and missed content that you will assessed on.
This is what the website says so yea I guess I would be tested on each system block:
'In Years 1 and 2, the emphasis of the programme’s study is on basic and clinical sciences. These are taught using an integrated ‘Systems’ approach. Each System Block includes physiology, biochemistry, pathology, microbiology, immunology, pharmacology and anatomy, genetics and cell and molecular biology. The emphasis of Year 1 teaching is on the structure and function of the human body under ‘normal’ conditions'.

I just want to find a textbook which covers the information that I need and require for med school; I got grays and have been reading and making notes/ flashcards on it for the past few months bc as a med student u would need to know all about the anatomy right? but I have not touched pathology, embryology, biochem etc; I made some flashcards on physiology from guytons but i have yet to find a book that covers all the necessary infor other than the usmle first aid book?
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