Tories are pathological liars.

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Wanttobreakfree
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I find it borderline psychopathic that anyone would try to defend them in this forum. Literally Trump, Orban, Modi and Bolsonaro effect. They can lie without impunity and coerce the vast majority of our press & media to never challenge them on said lies. How can this be considered a democracy anymore? Balance of power and the separation of foundational democratic pillars have gone completely out the window replaced with an us vs them like cult. No matter where you look in the world it'd seem Conservatism world-wide is devolving into this. Only difference is how far along the road to fascism we ourselves are.

Umberto Eco

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Last edited by Wanttobreakfree; 1 month ago
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64Lightbulbs
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
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Ain't that the truth.
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Final Fantasy
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Please note that the following spoiler should be considered a trigger warning, and is not intended to offend or hurt anyone's feelings.
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Unfortunately I am unable to express my own views and opinions here on the matter as they are deemed right-wing / conservative.
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-Imperator-
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(Original post by Wanttobreakfree)
I find it borderline psychopathic that anyone would try to defend them in this forum. Literally Trump, Orban, Modi and Bolsonaro effect. They can lie without impunity and coerce the vast majority of our press & media to never challenge them on said lies. How can this be considered a democracy anymore? Balance of power and the separation of foundational democratic pillars have gone completely out the window replaced with an us vs them like cult. No matter where you look in the world it'd seem Conservatism world-wide is devolving into this. Only difference is how far along the road to fascism we ourselves are.

Umberto Eco

1. The cult of tradition. “One has only to look at the syllabus of every fascist movement to find the major traditionalist thinkers. The Nazi gnosis was nourished by traditionalist, syncretistic, occult elements.”

2. The rejection of modernism. “The Enlightenment, the Age of Reason, is seen as the beginning of modern depravity. In this sense Ur-Fascism can be defined as irrationalism.”

3. The cult of action for action’s sake. “Action being beautiful in itself, it must be taken before, or without, any previous reflection. Thinking is a form of emasculation.”

4. Disagreement is treason. “The critical spirit makes distinctions, and to distinguish is a sign of modernism. In modern culture the scientific community praises disagreement as a way to improve knowledge.”

5. Fear of difference. “The first appeal of a fascist or prematurely fascist movement is an appeal against the intruders. Thus Ur-Fascism is racist by definition.”

6. Appeal to social frustration. “One of the most typical features of the historical fascism was the appeal to a frustrated middle class, a class suffering from an economic crisis or feelings of political humiliation, and frightened by the pressure of lower social groups.”

7. The obsession with a plot. “Thus at the root of the Ur-Fascist psychology there is the obsession with a plot, possibly an international one. The followers must feel besieged.”

8. The enemy is both strong and weak. “By a continuous shifting of rhetorical focus, the enemies are at the same time too strong and too weak.”

9. Pacifism is trafficking with the enemy. “For Ur-Fascism there is no struggle for life but, rather, life is lived for struggle.”

10. Contempt for the weak. “Elitism is a typical aspect of any reactionary ideology.”

11. Everybody is educated to become a hero. “In Ur-Fascist ideology, heroism is the norm. This cult of heroism is strictly linked with the cult of death.”

12. Machismo and weaponry. “Machismo implies both disdain for women and intolerance and condemnation of nonstandard sexual habits, from chastity to homosexuality.”

13. Selective populism. “There is in our future a TV or Internet populism, in which the emotional response of a selected group of citizens can be presented and accepted as the Voice of the People.”

14. Ur-Fascism speaks Newspeak. “All the Nazi or Fascist schoolbooks made use of an impoverished vocabulary, and an elementary syntax, in order to limit the instruments for complex and critical reasoning.”
Trump, Orban, Modi and Bolsonaro are not Tories...
They are all nationalists and arguably far-right, but remember that being far-right and being a Nazi are not the same things.
The actual Tories (i.e. the current Conservative government) are not far-right.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by -Imperator-)
Trump, Orban, Modi and Bolsonaro are not Tories...
They are all nationalists and arguably far-right, but remember that being far-right and being a Nazi are not the same things.
The actual Tories (i.e. the current Conservative government) are not far-right.
Boris is also a nationalist and arguably far-right. He'd one of the most far-right advisers in recent memory and he along with Mogg have met up with Alt-Right media strategist Steve Bannon. As for Conservatives no those were kicked out of the party by Boris Johnson and they too fear the party has been taken over by nationalistic populist radicals as well.
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-Imperator-
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Johnson is not even close to far-right, he's a liberal conservative. Which adviser are you talking about? Not Dominic Cummings, I hope, who opposed the ERG and said that Farage's UKIP were injecting poison into the political debate.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by -Imperator-)
Johnson is not even close to far-right, he's a liberal conservative. Which adviser are you talking about? Not Dominic Cummings, I hope, who opposed the ERG and said that Farage's UKIP were injecting poison into the political debate.
Dominic Cummings as in the guy that's pro Eugenics and has several dodgy ties to Russian oligarchs. Yes Johnson is far-right don't tell me attempting to use the state to force coerce citizens to eat British fish just cause Brexit predictably screwed over of which Boris and other Leave Campaigners would benefit from is somehow not a far-right ultra nationalist tendency cause it is. Furthermore; come on Farage is just a distraction really think it's coincidence that he'd a pep-talk with Steve Bannon near enough the same time Jacob Rees Mogg and Boris Johnson had theirs?
Last edited by Wanttobreakfree; 1 month ago
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L i b
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Ah yes, the "everyone's a Nazi except me" school of thought.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by L i b)
Ah yes, the "everyone's a Nazi except me" school of thought.
There's more kinds of fascism than Nazism.
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DiddyDec
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Weren't you the one complaining about the UK politics board being "toxic"?
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
Weren't you the one complaining about the UK politics board being "toxic"?
By Tories I'm referring to the MP's not that inherently all Tories voters and especially not the ones that'd internal disagreements with the party then chucked out by the current crop are like this. I should've made this more clear. My bad.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Wanttobreakfree)
By Tories I'm referring to the MP's not that inherently all Tories voters and especially not the ones that'd internal disagreements with the party then chucked out by the current crop are like this. I should've made this more clear. My bad.
You are just as toxic as the rest of them.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
You are just as toxic as the rest of them.
By pointing out how current Tory MP's under Boris Johnson for the most part are pathological liars and are incapable of ever committing to truth? I respectfully disagree. That's not toxic that's observation. We're acting as if 130, 000 innocent people under the current government didn't needlessly die due to self-enrichment and outright overt corruption.
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DiddyDec
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(Original post by Wanttobreakfree)
By pointing out how current Tory MP's under Boris Johnson for the most part are pathological liars and are incapable of ever committing to truth? I respectfully disagree. That's not toxic that's observation.
No your general demeanour like making threads to shame other users you disagree with this thread is just an extension of that.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
No your general demeanour like making threads to shame other users you disagree with this thread is just an extension of that.
Supporting a party that's lied every step of the way in addition through its deliberate self-serving neglect ended up systemically killing 130, 000 innocent people (social murder) and wanted to starve children during a pandemic is that somehow not shameful? If so why do we even have this word if it can't apply here? What do you want me to do white-wash it like our media and press already does? This is despotic.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
No your general demeanour like making threads to shame other users you disagree with this thread is just an extension of that.
*sigh* Y'know what? I'm going to delete this thread. I want to try a new approach and you're right me spreading more antagonism broadly helps no one. I apologise.
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L i b
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(Original post by Wanttobreakfree)
There's more kinds of fascism than Nazism.
Yes, but going around randomly accusing everyone and their dog of it is just as daft.
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londonmyst
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(Original post by L i b)
Yes, but going around randomly accusing everyone and their dog of it is just as daft.
PRSOM.
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Wanttobreakfree
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(Original post by L i b)
Yes, but going around randomly accusing everyone and their dog of it is just as daft.
Tory Party have definitely engaged in 12 of 14 characteristics of Umberto's characterisation of Fascism.
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