EU declared 'LGBT freedom zone' in response to Poland's 'LGBT-free zones'

Certainly a novel response to Poland, although it does come across as little more than blowing the trumpet for the sake of it. It being rather easy to make a hollow press statement than to actually affect meaningful change. Ah there's a term for this but i forget it.

This all being said, it does just seem to stem from the wider problem of politising sex. Apparently its a controversial view to not give a toss who bangs who - be they gay or straight - the new normal being to propagate the opinion that it is perfectly normal and proper to be gay/trans or whatnot. Now, of course there is nothing what so ever wrong with people wishing to identify as, well, whatever they damn well please. On the same token though, if youre going to take the view that the lgbt community has to have their views respected it comes across as somewhat dubious to then rubbish this same argument for the religious lot. Or, indeed, the many who simply dont want their children being told its perfectly normal to be a transsexual - there being more than enough threads/articles/books etc. on that topic than espousing on it here.
Suffice it to say, would it not be more apt for both sides on this most petty of arguments to simply wind their necks in and stop arguing about policy on it? Especially in such a hollow context. The poles, whether you like their views or not, being entitled to them and, indeed, it should be noted they're just as hollow as the EUs 'response' here.

Pettiness begets pettiness it would seem.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56366750

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Reply 1

Paranoiaa

Why do they keeping making things so complex..

Reply 2

Starship Trooper

On an unrelated note 🤣🤣🤣

Reply 3

vapordave

Debate & Current Affairs Helper

Solidarity, I suppose?
They can't really do anything concrete because Hungary will back Poland up and vice-versa. It's a stalemate.

Reply 4

parmezanne

Volunteer Team

Original post by Napp

its perfectly normal to be a transsexual

Suffice it to say, would it not be more apt for both sides on this most petty of arguments to simply wind their necks in and stop arguing about policy on it? Especially in such a hollow context.

Just as a side note, transsexual is a dated term :yep:

it's more appropriate to refer to trans people either as 'trans people' or 'transgender'. :smile:

Aside from that, I completely agree. The fact that orientation is still seen politically in this day and age absolutely baffles me.

Reply 5

username4986690

They should just strip Poland of all EU funding if they can't abide to being a decent country.

Reply 6

Starship Trooper

Original post by DiddyDec

They should just strip Poland of all EU funding if they can't abide to being a liberal country.

Fixed that for you.

Sadly I can't see the EU doing anything too overt about the Visegrad states.

Upset them too much and they'll start getting pally with Russia. The tried and tested method is for the EU to do nothing and wait for the more socially liberal younger generation to vote them out as well as ever more immigration: use lots of NGOs etc to stir up social unrest and gradually get giant corporations to start laying down the law:

'You want us to keep our Amazon Warehouse in Warsaw*? You better start accepting gay marriage bigot or we're outsourcing'

*(I don't know if there's an Amazon warehouse in Warsaw I'm just using that as an example before the "fact checker" soy brigade arrives )

Reply 7

username4986690

Original post by Starship Trooper

The EU are a soft bunch of ****s unwilling to ever do anything substantial.

Very few large companies actually have a moral compass as long as their profits aren't affected they don't really care who they do dealings with, although the cheaper the better.

Reply 8

vapordave

Debate & Current Affairs Helper

Original post by parmezanne

Just as a side note, transsexual is a dated term :yep:

it's more appropriate to refer to trans people either as 'trans people' or 'transgender'. :smile:

Aside from that, I completely agree. The fact that orientation is still seen politically in this day and age absolutely baffles me.

Unfortunately it probably won't change until notable political opposition to LGBT becomes a thing of the past :moon:

(on a global level I give it ~100 years tbh)

Reply 9

Napp

Original post by parmezanne

Just as a side note, transsexual is a dated term :yep:

it's more appropriate to refer to trans people either as 'trans people' or 'transgender'. :smile:

Aside from that, I completely agree. The fact that orientation is still seen politically in this day and age absolutely baffles me.

Duly noted, although what exactly is the difference? Maybe i'm just an old codger but they appear to be synonyms for all practical purposes?

Reply 10

Napp

Original post by DiddyDec

They should just strip Poland of all EU funding if they can't abide to being a decent country.

And Hungary for that matter. It would be amusing if it didnt have such profound implications how far those two (as well as a few others) have strayed from their initial desires after the collapse of the USSR.
It was always known one of the key reasons they joined the EU and NATO was as a shield against a revanchist Russia, it's rather ironic that they're both becoming, relatively speaking, just like Russia in many regards - Orban being a stand out example par excellence.

Reply 11

parmezanne

Volunteer Team

Original post by Napp

Duly noted, although what exactly is the difference? Maybe i'm just an old codger but they appear to be synonyms for all practical purposes?

I respect your interest :yep:

It's generally a dated term that was often used in a derogatory way, though some choose to claim the term. Transgender refers to the umbrella trans experience. Transgender people can simply identify with a different gender, whereas transsexual people often physically make the change. :smile:

Basically, the term is still used, but only really by those who identify with it. If you're not referring to those who identify with the term, it's best to stick with 'trans' or 'transgender'. :yep:

Reply 12

Joleee

not really sure what to say about this. so... what does this actually do in practice? like honest question if someone can help because i read the BBC article and tried to google it but couldn't find an answer on how it affects Poland. so, it's just symbolic, yes? and so are the so-called 'LGBT-free zones' in Poland symbolic and legally unenforceable (which i didn't know tbh). all the LGBT-free zones are used for is to condemn and harass those who identify as LGBT and push them back in the closet(?).

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/stories-54191344

also kinda annoys me that the EU resolution says 'authorities at all levels of governance across the EU should protect and promote equality...' - not 'must' protect and promote, so feels a bit pandering. not sure what the legal answer is tho atm (not an expert on EU law); but i do know the Commission has indeed rejected funding to some towns that declare themselves 'LGBT-free' in the past.

https://www.euronews.com/2020/07/29/eu-funding-withheld-from-six-polish-towns-over-lgbtq-free-zones

on an aside, as much as my dream job is to fight injustice tbh don't think i could handle living in Poland, especially when Polish citizens have the benefit of free movement in the EU, but tremendous kudos to anyone who can.

Reply 13

Napp

Original post by parmezanne

I respect your interest :yep:

Basically, the term is still used, but only really by those who identify with it. If you're not referring to those who identify with the term, it's best to stick with 'trans' or 'transgender'. :yep:

Ah okay, so effectively its a technical difference? Albeit with potential negative connotations depending on the context?
Fair enough, i'll try to keep it in mind :smile:

Reply 14

markmm4226

As a member of the LGBT community myself I frankly find this announcement from the EU insulting and hollow (and this is coming from someone who voted Remain).

The sentiment is there.... somewhere....

But for as long as the EU accepts countries that are so incredibly anti-LGBT and does nothing about it, they have no right to call themselves a ‘Freedom Zone’. Each country has a right to their own policies. But if the EU truly believed in the value of LGBT inclusivity and protection, they would not allow the membership of countries such as Poland and Hungary.

In fact multiple EU countries not as far-right as these two still lack in LGBT rights. Many have patchy adoption rights, marriage recognition, gender identity recognition.

Nothing is consistent in terms of LGBT rights in the EU. This announcement is just insulting.

Reply 15

Hallouminatus

Original post by Napp

Duly noted, although what exactly is the difference? Maybe i'm just an old codger but they appear to be synonyms for all practical purposes?

It hinges on the difference between sex and gender. Sex is biologically defined, binary, and in humans immutable, whereas gender is socially constructed, subjective, vaguely definited and fluid.

"Transsexual" implies changing sex, which is not possible in humans, while "transgender" implies changing gender, which is.

"Transgender" is therefore the more accurate term.

Reply 16

Hallouminatus

Original post by Napp

Ah there's a term for this but i forget it.

Virtue signalling

Reply 17

Vertigo_descent

One day the EU will grow up and stop acting like a petulant child... but not today.

Reply 18

Napp

Original post by Hallouminatus

Hmm one would contend the first bit is somewhat debatable but fair enough to the rest of the comment.

Reply 19

username5702009

Just declaring something is a fairly empty gesture unless accompanied by actions. For example, declaring a climate emergency and doing nothing to reduce car emissions or increase renewable energy.