I found out my car was declared by insurance total loss after I bought it.

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IWMTom
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#41
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#41
(Original post by StriderHort)
If someone's going to spend 10k cash on a 2/3 owner+ Mini and not even check the paperwork/receipts there's not a lot to be done really, chances of them correctly reading/filing legal paperwork is v little. :rolleyes:
"He is guilty because I said so!"
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StriderHort
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#42
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(Original post by Cristian130)
How you call a car when someone tells you can drive your car only on short distance because of the bad condition. Garage told me if I get involve in an accident to a highest speed I could hurt myself seriously because the front reinforcement are weak and the car is not safe to drive.
How you call that? Because now I’m scared to drive it after they told me about it.
And can you tell me if the seller have any right to sell a car in that condition?? After I ask him about any damage in past or hidden issue or if the car need investment after I buy it. So you tell me I bough that car with serious problems that could put my family in danger and previous owner lied about any questions I ask him, is not guilty??
The trouble is you need to be 100% precise with terms and circumstances. It's really not for you to declare a vehicle unroadworthy or not fit for purpose, you need to meet the legal definition with no self interpretation.

Saying 'If I got in an accident at the highest speed I could hurt myself seriously' just doesn't sound appropriate, anyone could hurt themselves seriously in a high speed crash?. When mine got declared unroadworthy is was because even a mild pothole could collapse the entire subframe at speed, at HUGE risk to myself and others.

Tbh i suspect you legally do have a claim against the seller, but it'll be an uphill battle to prove it or get actual money from them. As Tom pointed out, private sellers have little regulation on what they have to tell you compared to a commercial trader and there is an awful lot of 'Buyer beware!', tbh i simply wouldn't trust a private seller & stranger to be 100% with me and would do my own due diligence in terms of checks. Pretty much the whole reason you ask for a used cars service history and involves is that you'd be a bit of an idiot to take the sellers word for it, and courts take that into account.
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Cristian130
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#43
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#43
(Original post by Dunnig Kruger)
A weakened 2018 mini is still safer to drive than a 100% original 1970's Rolls Royce. Thanks to airbags etc.

I'd happily drive a 1970's Rolls Royce with no particular concerns about safety at all.

Having said all that, if you have written proof that the seller lied, and he refuses to give you a refund, take him to court. Especially if you have a good chance of winning. Although be prepared for him saying he's spent all the money and can pay you back at the rate of 20p per week.

And you can always sell your mini now. Probably for a huge loss. But you should stil get over £5k for it. Use £1k to buy yourself another car. The sort of car that they buy on the Car Throttle Youtube channel.
Thanks for replying,
I have all proof with him lying about real condition of the car and I’m willing to court him because he sold a that car in bad condition and not telling me about it after I ask him many questions about the car.
I know the car is not worth the money now but I can’t sell it with those problems. I have to invest 4.5k to get it in good condition. My mistake to spend 10K on a car in pandemic because I trusted the man.
I was just wandering if This is a solid case if I have all proof with him lying about the real condition of the car just to get rid of it and sell to me.
I repeat myself when he sold the car to me the headlamps had a problem and he said he replaced those at Mini dealership. Well I call them after I bough the car and BMW Mini Dealership told he declined the replacement and never replaced the headlamps. He took the car to Mini for MOT in nov 2020 and after he declined the replacement, dealership Fail him to MOT.
He left without MOT and glue them for Passing the MOT after 5 days but somewhere else not at BMW.
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IWMTom
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#44
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#44
(Original post by Cristian130)
I was just wandering if This is a solid case
No. Thusfar it's not. Hence all of the questions.
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Cristian130
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#45
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#45
(Original post by IWMTom)
No. Thusfar it's not. Hence all of the questions.
So can I sell the car with 10K and lying about real condition like he did?
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IWMTom
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#46
(Original post by Cristian130)
So can I sell the car with 10K and lying about real condition like he did?
You're selectively answering questions so I'll do the same and rather than answer this one I'm going to yet again copy and paste a previous question asked:


I'm going to ask this again and I want you to answer either yes or no...

Is the car currently unroadworthy?
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the bear
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#47
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it sounds as if you bought the car from a scumbag. it is unlikely that he will return your money or comply with a court order to repay you.
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Cristian130
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#48
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(Original post by IWMTom)
You're selectively answering questions so I'll do the same and rather than answer this one I'm going to yet again copy and paste a previous question asked:


I'm going to ask this again and I want you to answer either yes or no...

Is the car currently unroadworthy?
If the unroadworthy means that this car is dangerous to drive on public road and need to be repaired at the adequate quality to be driven safely then Yes.
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IWMTom
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#49
(Original post by Cristian130)
If the unroadworthy means that this car is dangerous to drive on public road and need to be repaired at the adequate quality to be driven safely then Yes.
How come you're driving it on the public road then?
How come you stated earlier that it's now safe to drive?

:facepalm:
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Cristian130
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#50
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#50
(Original post by IWMTom)
How come you're driving it on the public road then?
How come you stated earlier that it's now safe to drive?

:facepalm:
I’m not driving the car at this moment. The garage fix the headlights just to let me took the car at home and I’m not driving anymore till I decide what to do with it.
They made me sign some papers after i took the car at home and they called my insurance to tell them about the real condition of the car. The insurance called me back and they want to change the all insurance now because the car is not like I described and i have to extra pay now. So only chance is to sue the previous owner to return the car and get a full refund.
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IWMTom
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#51
(Original post by Cristian130)
I’m not driving the car at this moment. The garage fix the headlights just to let me took the car at home and I’m not driving anymore till I decide what to do with it.
They made me sign some papers after i took the car at home and they called my insurance to tell them about the real condition of the car. The insurance called me back and they want to change the all insurance now because the car is not like I described and i have to extra pay now. So only chance is to sue the previous owner to return the car and get a full refund.
That's not what you said multiple times throughout this thread. You've stated several times that the vehicle is "safe" as a result of the headlight repair. Was that a lie?

I'm still not understanding why beyond the headlight issue (which has now been resolved) you seem to think that the vehicle is unroadworthy?
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Cristian130
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#52
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#52
(Original post by IWMTom)
That's not what you said multiple times throughout this thread. You've stated several times that the vehicle is "safe" as a result of the headlight repair. Was that a lie?

I'm still not understanding why beyond the headlight issue (which has now been resolved) you seem to think that the vehicle is unroadworthy?
The problem is not headlights because I fix them a week ago, the real problem is the interior of the engine compartment, the car have some metal parts that they are meant to keep you safe if you crash it but the guy had those part just hammered and fixed again on the car again that’s illegal and unsafe.
If you think the car is roadworthy but is not safe to drive till I fix the problem so be it. But selling the car in that stage and not telling is illegal as far as I know.
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IWMTom
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Cristian130)
The problem is not headlights because I fix them a week ago, the real problem is the interior of the engine compartment, the car have some metal parts that they are meant to keep you safe if you crash it but the guy had those part just hammered and fixed again on the car again that’s illegal and unsafe.
Could you quote the legislation that makes that illegal? I'm willing to bet one whole Great British Pound that you can't.


(Original post by Cristian130)
If you think the car is roadworthy but is not safe to drive till I fix the problem so be it.
Might I remind you that you yourself have stated numerous times that "the car is safe" as a result of the headlight repair. Now you're saying it's not safe. That's a common theme throughout this thread. You're constantly flip flopping between safe and unsafe, roadworthy and unroadworthy.

(Original post by Cristian130)
But selling the car in that stage and not telling is illegal as far as I know.
I'll refer you to the response to quote #1.
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Cristian130
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#54
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#54
(Original post by the bear)
it sounds as if you bought the car from a scumbag. it is unlikely that he will return your money or comply with a court order to repay you.
I will try with a court order to get a full refund.
He texted me the car is like new one and he changed the headlights at Dealership, more then that I specifically ask him if the car had any damages in the past or hidden issue or anything that I need to invest more money in the car and he said no hidden issue and no damage at all, and the only things that need replacement are the front disc because those are to the legal limit and nothing else.
So after the incident, technician took my car to garage and opened the bonnet, and they discovered the headlamps were glued and not changed like he said with a cheap glue just to Pass the MOT, and they were back broken and more parts of the car have been serous touched and need replaced immediately, but the baddest thing is the front reinforcement that is been serious damaged because of the previous impact.
Now I have all that texts from him printed, the Dealership mail and invoice were he declined the replacement of the headlamps, the estimating parts that need urgently replaced, and the mail from insurance when they found the car was written off N category.
In other words he told me before I buy the car by texting me he bought it from a dealership, but three days ago when I called him to told about the small claim he told me he can’t remember where did he bought the car, but wasn’t a dealership maybe a trader or a mechanic.
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Cristian130
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#55
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#55
(Original post by IWMTom)
Could you quote the legislation that makes that illegal? I'm willing to bet one whole Great British Pound that you can't.




Might I remind you that you yourself have stated numerous times that "the car is safe" as a result of the headlight repair. Now you're saying it's not safe. That's a common theme throughout this thread. You're constantly flip flopping between safe and unsafe, roadworthy and unroadworthy.


I'll refer you to the response to quote #1.
(Original post by IWMTom)

Could you quote the legislation that makes that illegal? I'm willing to bet one whole Great British Pound that you can't.

So you tell me you can hammer some metal parts and then fix them again on the car again after the impact and sell the car as ,, like new'' and is legal.
Good to know, I will try to sell myself this car and put someone else life in danger because of my selfish spirit of trying to cheat people to get more money on the car.
To answer your question yes, is not legal to do that. To cheat and lie about the real condition of the car you sell it, even if you are a private seller.
And only safe thing from all I discover on the car are headlamps, because I repair them. That's why I said safe because I paid extra to get them right for driving home from garage and that's all. But other parts need attention and the car is not safe to drive, those words are from the engineers not me.
They let me drive the car from garage to home after I sign for it on my own responsibility to drive just home, I live very close, one mile away to the garage.
If the engineers tells me the car is not safe to drive it I took it serious and not drive it till I fix it.
I ask again this case is solid?
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IWMTom
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#56
(Original post by Cristian130)
(Original post by IWMTom)

Could you quote the legislation that makes that illegal? I'm willing to bet one whole Great British Pound that you can't.

So you tell me you can hammer some metal parts and then fix them again on the car again after the impact and sell the car as ,, like new'' and is legal.
Good to know, I will try to sell myself this car and put someone else life in danger because of my selfish spirit of trying to cheat people to get more money on the car.
To answer your question yes, is not legal to do that. To cheat and lie about the real condition of the car you sell it, even if you are a private seller.
And only safe thing from all I discover on the car are headlamps, because I repair them. That's why I said safe because I paid extra to get them right for driving home from garage and that's all. But other parts need attention and the car is not safe to drive, those words are from the engineers not me.
They let me drive the car from garage to home after I sign for it on my own responsibility to drive just home, I live very close, one mile away to the garage.
If the engineers tells me the car is not safe to drive it I took it serious and not drive it till I fix it.
I ask again this case is solid?
No, your case is not solid. At all.

Are you going to quote the legislation you believe that the seller has contravened, or are you just going to scream in court "HE SOLD ME POO POO!!!!".

Do you have categorical evidence that the seller knowingly told you a lie about the condition of the vehicle which you claim to be "unroadworthy" (which I still don't believe at all)?

When was the vehicle in a collision? What's the source of that date? When did the seller buy the car? When did they sell it to you?
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StriderHort
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(Original post by Cristian130)
(Original post by IWMTom)

Could you quote the legislation that makes that illegal? I'm willing to bet one whole Great British Pound that you can't.

So you tell me you can hammer some metal parts and then fix them again on the car again after the impact and sell the car as ,, like new'' and is legal.
Good to know, I will try to sell myself this car and put someone else life in danger because of my selfish spirit of trying to cheat people to get more money on the car.
To answer your question yes, is not legal to do that. To cheat and lie about the real condition of the car you sell it, even if you are a private seller.
And only safe thing from all I discover on the car are headlamps, because I repair them. That's why I said safe because I paid extra to get them right for driving home from garage and that's all. But other parts need attention and the car is not safe to drive, those words are from the engineers not me.
They let me drive the car from garage to home after I sign for it on my own responsibility to drive just home, I live very close, one mile away to the garage.
If the engineers tells me the car is not safe to drive it I took it serious and not drive it till I fix it.
I ask again this case is solid?
C'mon you're dodging, he asked you to state the legislation that makes that repair illegal, you DO need to know to effectively complain. I get you're pissed about the car but there's no point being sarcastic to folk here over facts, it's not illegal just because you really want it to be and you can't just throw these terms around because 'surely this is illegal'

Look at the phrase 'Like a new car', the key word is 'Like', if it has 4 wheels, an engine, a brand name, bodywork, seats, it's an awful lot like a new car, but it's not a new car, otherwise you'd call it that. It's largely a meaningless term.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by StriderHort)
C'mon you're dodging, he asked you to state the legislation that makes that repair illegal, you DO need to know to effectively complain. I get you're pissed about the car but there's no point being sarcastic to folk here over facts, it's not illegal just because you really want it to be and you can't just throw these terms around because 'surely this is illegal'

Look at the phrase 'Like a new car', the key word is 'Like', if it has 4 wheels, an engine, a brand name, bodywork, seats, it's an awful lot like a new car, but it's not a new car, otherwise you'd call it that. It's largely a meaningless term.
PRSOM 👍
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mnot
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#59
(Original post by Cristian130)
Hi boys,

I have a complicate situation, in January I bought a car from a private seller and after 3 weeks driving I had a small incident with the car ( I hit a deer ) , no one got hurt because I had like 15 miles, it was a bad road in the wood and the deer just run off after I hit him.
I called my insurance to change my front grille and bonnet safety mechanism ( other car parts were not touched).
They called me and told that someone from a local garage will come and take the car to shop to replace the parts.
After they took off the from grille they notice the car was involve in an accident before I bought it, and the car have some serious damage to the radiator, AC, front reinforcement and other metal parts are bend and they need immediately replacement ( you cant notice then the bumper and grille are fixed).
After that they checked my car and they told me that they found it marked with N category which means non structural damage.
When I bought the car the owner told me the car is like a brand new car and it was never involved in an accident and when he did the last MOT at Mini cooper they changed the front Headlamps because they was insecure, and he told me as well the car was bought from a Dealership.
I call to mini cooper and they told me he declined the invoice to pay for headlamps and they changed for him front pads and got a reject from MOT at Mini Dealer and he made MOT after 5 days to other MOT.
So now I have a legal proof of not changing the insecure lamps, and messages from him he did, I got a invoice for replacing the parts for 4.500 pounds after I pay him almost 10k for the car.
I got many conversation of him telling me the car is perfect and it is not.
Now legally where I'm standing?
Can I make a small claim against him with all proof I got?
I ask him many times I am a new driver in the UK and I want a car with no incident and he lied to me and his wife too.
I got them on both on screenshot conversation.
You've been scammed by the sounds of it.
Dealers always do inspections of cars before they buy/sell and for good reason (they even do detailed inspections of brand new cars), if you spent £10,000 on a car spending a couple hundred quid on a professional inspection is worth it.

Probably should get a car background check as well which can tell you if its been in an accident before and the details.

I think trying to unwind the transaction now will be difficult, presumably he sold it as he didnt want to get stuck with it.
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StriderHort
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(Original post by mnot)
You've been scammed by the sounds of it. Presumably he sold it as he didnt want to get stuck with it.
A bold plan and it has worked once again. :auto:... $! :borat: $!

But yeah, unthinkable I'd have parted with 10k cash without at VERY ULTRA LEAST the £10/20 whatever it costs for a history/write off check and I suspect the lack of that sort of due diligence would be seen negatively by any claim judge.
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