I found out my car was declared by insurance total loss after I bought it.

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Cristian130
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(Original post by StriderHort)
C'mon you're dodging, he asked you to state the legislation that makes that repair illegal, you DO need to know to effectively complain. I get you're pissed about the car but there's no point being sarcastic to folk here over facts, it's not illegal just because you really want it to be and you can't just throw these terms around because 'surely this is illegal'

Look at the phrase 'Like a new car', the key word is 'Like', if it has 4 wheels, an engine, a brand name, bodywork, seats, it's an awful lot like a new car, but it's not a new car, otherwise you'd call it that. It's largely a meaningless term.
The repair is automatically illegal because he used the bend parts from the same car accident to fixt it.
I will repeat myself, he used the same parts to fix the car it just for not spending money to the new parts and that make the car dangerous to drive. If the car after written off was repaired not to the quality required by a mechanical engineer yes, the car can be considered unsafe.
If it was good point. I bought a car because he describe it like now with no record and no issue and no hidden issue. He lied about it when i ask him to tell me if the car had incident in past and he told me the car have a clean history.

If you take your car to garage to make a repair or replacement and the garage used old parts to fix your car it's legal from what you saying?
So you can't sue the garage for using old parts because the legislation is not protecting you.
I'm not being sarcastic at all, but it's not right to lie about a good you sell.
I put the right question and he answer me by texting, so I got all the proof I need for the court.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
I put the right question and he answer me by texting, so I got all the proof I need for the court.
You've still neglected to share the "proof" with us. With respect, you likely didn't ask the correct questions.

You want to know whether you have a solid case, and given the evidence seen thusfar I'd say it's a big fat no.
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StriderHort
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(Original post by Cristian130)
The repair is automatically illegal because he used the bend parts from the same car accident to fixt it.
I will repeat myself, he used the same parts to fix the car it just for not spending money to the new parts and that make the car dangerous to drive. If the car after written off was repaired not to the quality required by a mechanical engineer yes, the car can be considered unsafe.
If it was good point. I bought a car because he describe it like now with no record and no issue and no hidden issue. He lied about it when i ask him to tell me if the car had incident in past and he told me the car have a clean history.

If you take your car to garage to make a repair or replacement and the garage used old parts to fix your car it's legal from what you saying?
So you can't sue the garage for using old parts because the legislation is not protecting you.
I'm not being sarcastic at all, but it's not right to lie about a good you sell.
I put the right question and he answer me by texting, so I got all the proof I need for the court.
I don't think the law works like that, you need to be a lot more precise than you're being. Plenty of parts inc crumple zones and frame parts can at times be repaired/welded/straightened without direct replacement. It is not correct to claim this is automatically illegal, not at all.

If you want to convince me the guy has sold you a wrote off car on the sly, and in a general sense, do you have grounds to claim against him? I'd say yes. But i'd also say you need to be precise to a fault because if you make a dodgy/overzealous claim they can throw the whole claim back in your face.

And you need to remember, you are NOT dealing with a regular garage or a business, you're dealing with 'Some Guy', a whole different host of rules apply. For this much cash, I'd consider getting dedicated legal advice and sorting out the details. Or let it go, as i'm sure others mentioned, getting a claims court to find in your favour is one thing, actually getting money out the defendant is totally different story.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by StriderHort)
getting a claims court to find in your favour is one thing, actually getting money out the defendant is totally different story.
Often overlooked yet very important point of CCJs!
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Cristian130
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(Original post by IWMTom)
You've still neglected to share the "proof" with us. With respect, you likely didn't ask the correct questions.

You want to know whether you have a solid case, and given the evidence seen thusfar I'd say it's a big fat no.
The evidence is conversation of him telling me he replaced the headlamps, which he did not in reality, and I told him I will pay 10K for the car if he can confirm me in write that the car did not have any incident in past and no hidden issue. He confirmed that too. So the car is not as described, so today I called at citizens advice, I told my story and the guy on the phone told me if I got him declared on text if the car have no damage in past and other problem before I buy it from him, as a proof in court, and if I have all of this in writing from him and he lied about the condition of the car, I can make a claim against him. So I was right keeping the old convo with him and not delete them.
He told me I need to give him the chance to make it right by sending the letter, which I did yesterday and telling him all problem I got with the car and give him the car back and refund me all money, or pay me back the difference of what I pay and what the car is worth on the market as Cat. N + paying for replacement of all the hit component of the car to get her in a good condition.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
The evidence is conversation of him telling me he replaced the headlamps, which he did not in reality, and I told him I will pay 10K for the car if he can confirm me in write that the car did not have any incident in past and no hidden issue. He confirmed that too. So the car is not as described, so today I called at citizens advice, I told my story and the guy on the phone told me if I got him declared on text if the car have no damage in past and other problem before I buy it from him, as a proof in court, and if I have all of this in writing from him and he lied about the condition of the car, I can make a claim against him. So I was right keeping the old convo with him and not delete them.
He told me I need to give him the chance to make it right by sending the letter, which I did yesterday and telling him all problem I got with the car and give him the car back and refund me all money, or pay me back the difference of what I pay and what the car is worth on the market as Cat. N + paying for replacement of all the hit component of the car to get her in a good condition.
So share this alleged conversation with us and let us review it prior to you making a fool out of yourself?

You've still not answered the question around dates. When was the car registered a write off? When did the seller buy it? When did you buy it?

Need I really warn you about spinning off into irrelevant tangents yet again?
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Joshkav
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(Original post by Cristian130)
The evidence is conversation of him telling me he replaced the headlamps, which he did not in reality, and I told him I will pay 10K for the car if he can confirm me in write that the car did not have any incident in past and no hidden issue. He confirmed that too. So the car is not as described, so today I called at citizens advice, I told my story and the guy on the phone told me if I got him declared on text if the car have no damage in past and other problem before I buy it from him, as a proof in court, and if I have all of this in writing from him and he lied about the condition of the car, I can make a claim against him. So I was right keeping the old convo with him and not delete them.
He told me I need to give him the chance to make it right by sending the letter, which I did yesterday and telling him all problem I got with the car and give him the car back and refund me all money, or pay me back the difference of what I pay and what the car is worth on the market as Cat. N + paying for replacement of all the hit component of the car to get her in a good condition.
You are only telling us the proof, not showing us the proof of what he said. We need to see what his exact wording of reply was and what questions were asked. Not just you saying what was said in the conversation and what you think you were asking him. If you asked him "Is there any problems with the car?" and him saying "The car is like new". This does not mean this car has or has not been in an accident. It could be meant in the way, yes the car has been in an accident, but has been repaired to be like new. Or, the car has been in an accident, but the car still looks new. He hasn't said specifically if the car has been in an accident or not. It was just you interpreting it out to make it seem like he said that. This is why we need to see proof, to know what was specifically said.

Also, as mentioned. He may well be found guilty in court, but it mightn't mean you get your money back.
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Cristian130
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(Original post by Joshkav)
You are only telling us the proof, not showing us the proof of what he said. We need to see what his exact wording of reply was and what questions were asked. Not just you saying what was said in the conversation and what you think you were asking him. If you asked him "Is there any problems with the car?" and him saying "The car is like new". This does not mean this car has or has not been in an accident. It could be meant in the way, yes the car has been in an accident, but has been repaired to be like new. Or, the car has been in an accident, but the car still looks new. He hasn't said specifically if the car has been in an accident or not. It was just you interpreting it out to make it seem like he said that. This is why we need to see proof, to know what was specifically said.

Also, as mentioned. He may well be found guilty in court, but it mightn't mean you get your money back.
You know I can’t post them now, the questions are individual in many days and many messages, so is not place of misinterpretation at my question. The man can denied as well but the message he send me will say otherwise in court.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
You know I can’t post them now, the questions are individual in many days and many messages, so is not place of misinterpretation at my question. The man can denied as well but the message he send me will say otherwise in court.
You're simply not listening are you?
Have you recently emigrated here? Are you familiar with our legal system?
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Cristian130
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(Original post by IWMTom)
You're simply not listening are you?
Have you recently emigrated here? Are you familiar with our legal system?
You are not giving the answer at my questions.
I will ask you again.
Is legal to sell a car with multiple problems by not telling the true after being asked about them?
If I put you the right question like , the car have been involved in the accidents in the past? And you say no the car was not involved in any accident. What that means for you???
The guy can’t pretend he didn’t understand the question, especially when he sold a 10k car, come on!! And by asking me if I’m recently here have nothing to do with the topic.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
You are not giving the answer at my questions.
I will ask you again.
Is legal to sell a car with multiple problems by not telling the true after being asked about them?
If I put you the right question like , the car have been involved in the accidents in the past? And you say no the car was not involved in any accident. What that means for you???
The guy can’t pretend he didn’t understand the question, especially when he sold a 10k car, come on!! And by asking me if I’m recently here have nothing to do with the topic.
Can you ****ing answer the questions you've been asked. Frankly, I'm sick to death of you running off into constant tangents. At this point I'm convinced you're just another troll.

Outstanding questions as follows:

Can you attach the alleged proof you have?
How is the vehicle unroadworthy?
Can you quote the relevant legislation?
When was the vehicle recorded a write off?
When did the seller buy the car?
When did you buy the car?
Have you recently emigrated?
Are you familiar with our legal system?
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Cristian130
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(Original post by IWMTom)
Can you ****ing answer the questions you've been asked. Frankly, I'm sick to death of you running off into constant tangents. At this point I'm convinced you're just another troll.

Outstanding questions as follows:

Can you attach the alleged proof you have?
How is the vehicle unroadworthy?
Can you quote the relevant legislation?
When was the vehicle recorded a write off?
When did the seller buy the car?
When did you buy the car?
Have you recently emigrated?
Are you familiar with our legal system?
Mate you are acting like a child for god sake. Watch your mouth and be respectful and answer at questions if you can, if you don't, shut up and let other lads to gave an sincerity answer.

1. I can't public some evidence now and you know that.
2. The engineers told me the car is unroadworthy and need to repair it to the highest quality to get back on roads.
3. What relevant legislation do you need me to quote for you. Read yourself Road traffic Act 1988 and you will notice you can't sell, offer to sell, supply, and expose for sell.
For the purposes of subsection (1) above a motor vehicle or trailer is in an unroadworthy condition if-----------
(i) brakes, steering gear or tyres, or
(ii) the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles, lights, or other components of the car...
(b) it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger of injury to any person

(6A)Paragraph (b) of subsection (6) above shall not apply in relation to a person who, in the course of a trade or business—

(a) exposes a vehicle or trailer for sale, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that any prospective purchaser would be aware that its use in its current condition on a road in Great Britain would be unlawful, or

(b) offers to sell a vehicle or trailer, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that the person to whom the offer was made was aware of that fact.]

4. Vehicle was written off before he buy it. I already told you that you can scroll up and see the post. And he bought the car from a Mechanic not from a dealership like he lied me in messages and verbal too.
5. How relevant is your question about my status in the UK? Non of your fk business mate.
6. ItSeems to me that I know more then you.
Now be a good boy an answer if you can, or let others to do it if you can't and stop with nonsense.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
Mate you are acting like a child for god sake. Watch your mouth and be respectful and answer at questions if you can, if you don't, shut up and let other lads to gave an sincerity answer.

1. I can't public some evidence now and you know that.
2. The engineers told me the car is unroadworthy and need to repair it to the highest quality to get back on roads.
3. What relevant legislation do you need me to quote for you. Read yourself Road traffic Act 1988 and you will notice you can't sell, offer to sell, supply, and expose for sell.
For the purposes of subsection (1) above a motor vehicle or trailer is in an unroadworthy condition if-----------
(i) brakes, steering gear or tyres, or
(ii) the construction, weight or equipment of vehicles, lights, or other components of the car...
(b) it is in such a condition that its use on a road would involve a danger of injury to any person

(6A)Paragraph (b) of subsection (6) above shall not apply in relation to a person who, in the course of a trade or business—

(a) exposes a vehicle or trailer for sale, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that any prospective purchaser would be aware that its use in its current condition on a road in Great Britain would be unlawful, or

(b) offers to sell a vehicle or trailer, unless he also proves that he took all reasonable steps to ensure that the person to whom the offer was made was aware of that fact.]

4. Vehicle was written off before he buy it. I already told you that you can scroll up and see the post. And he bought the car from a Mechanic not from a dealership like he lied me in messages and verbal too.
5. How relevant is your question about my status in the UK? Non of your fk business mate.
6. It Seems to me that I know more then you.
Now be a good boy an answer if you can, or let others to do it if you can't and stop with nonsense.
Why can you not share the evidence? You have nothing to lose by doing so.

When you say engineer, you actually just mean a mechanic trying to earn a few quid.

Yeah you're going to lose in court lol. You just have no clue when it comes to defining "unroadworthy".

Your vehicle isn't "unroadworthy". You've provided no evidence that it's "unroadworthy". At all. You've even driven the vehicle which is a criminal offence if it is truly "unroadworthy".

I asked you to quote legislation that makes the vehicle "unroadworthy", not the repercussions of selling an "unroadworthy" vehicle.

It's very relevant as to whether you've recently emigrated. You have this impression that our legal system is going to play in your favour simply by preaching "ITS ILLEGAL COS I SAY SO". That's not how it works.

You must satisfy the court that the seller breached X laws on balance of probability. You don't seem to have any legal basis in your argument for a claim, so it'll only end up costing you more in fees...

£410 to file.
£335 for a hearing.
Even more costs to actually try and enforce the CCJ in the unlikely event that you win.

Research our legal system and the burden of proof you require before making a fool out of yourself and costing yourself even more money.

Do you actually have any evidence that the seller knew the vehicle was categorised? Anything at all? Who's to say he wasn't just as silly as you and didn't do a HPI check?
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Cristian130
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(Original post by IWMTom)
Why can you not share the evidence? You have nothing to lose by doing so.

When you say engineer, you actually just mean a mechanic trying to earn a few quid.

Yeah you're going to lose in court lol. You just have no clue when it comes to defining "unroadworthy".

Your vehicle isn't "unroadworthy". You've provided no evidence that it's "unroadworthy". At all. You've even driven the vehicle which is a criminal offence if it is truly "unroadworthy".

I asked you to quote legislation that makes the vehicle "unroadworthy", not the repercussions of selling an "unroadworthy" vehicle.

It's very relevant as to whether you've recently emigrated. You have this impression that our legal system is going to play in your favour simply by preaching "ITS ILLEGAL COS I SAY SO". That's not how it works.

You must satisfy the court that the seller breached X laws on balance of probability. You don't seem to have any legal basis in your argument for a claim, so it'll only end up costing you more in fees...

£410 to file.
£335 for a hearing.
Even more costs to actually try and enforce the CCJ in the unlikely event that you win.

Research our legal system and the burden of proof you require before making a fool out of yourself and costing yourself even more money.

Do you actually have any evidence that the seller knew the vehicle was categorised? Anything at all? Who's to say he wasn't just as silly as you and didn't do a HPI check?
1. When I say engineer I mean really engineer not mechanic mate, the engineer from garage sent the photos of those parts that are bend to engineer from Insurance to be inspected and they called me and said the car was involved in a previous accident and the repair was done to a lowest standard and the car is dangerous to derive.
2. I drove the car without knowing it was dangerous until I found out and stop driving it. I told you I don't drive it anymore, don't put words in my mouth.
3. It's criminal offence to sell it like that without telling about real condition and you know it.
4. The legislation that make a vehicle unroadworthy? Come on mate seriously? Only an authorized garage can tell if a car is dangerous to drive, if it danger to drive you must repair to a good quality to drive safe, which means is unroadworthy till you repair it and you must not sell it without telling about this issue. I already told you he said he bought the car from a dealership, and after I pay him I asked again after a few days and he denied that he bought the car from a dealership, more then that he said he bought it from a mechanic ( that means he know it that car was hit and he bought the car cheap and after 6-7 month he sold it to me). Something doesn't smell good at all don't you think??
5. I do not want an penny in plus, I want justice and him justified the price I pay if he can.
I must pay 4500.00 pounds to repair the car, 700-800 is nothing to me. So I will take him in court for lying about it.
6. The real evidence of him knowing the car was Cat.N is up to Bmw-Mini, he got there for a MOT and he fail because of headlamps that he didn't chanced like he said. I call them and I ask information about the car, they told me over the phone every client of them at MOT got a full information about the car because that's company policy. So in other words if I book a MOT at BMW MINI they would told me about cat N even if I didn't ask them to check it.
7. I didn't say it's illegal because I say so. I told you is illegal to sell a car with serious problem, which he did.
8. I checked the car online on Gov and I trusted the guy.

You just have no clue when it comes to defining "unroadworthy". (Define for me please!!)
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StriderHort
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Just as an aside, your English is very poor and near indecipherable at times which is making this pretty frustrating for all. This would likely be a serious obstacle to any claim you would make. If £700-800 is nothing to you then I honestly suggest the services of an interpreter/communicator and a lawyer rather than unproductively bickering here.
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IWMTom
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(Original post by Cristian130)
1. When I say engineer I mean really engineer not mechanic mate, the engineer from garage sent the photos of those parts that are bend to engineer from Insurance to be inspected and they called me and said the car was involved in a previous accident and the repair was done to a lowest standard and the car is dangerous to derive.
Garages don't have "engineers". They have mechanics.



(Original post by Cristian130)
2. I drove the car without knowing it was dangerous until I found out and stop driving it. I told you I don't drive it anymore, don't put words in my mouth.
So how did you get it back from the garage then? :laugh:

(Original post by Cristian130)
3. It's criminal offence to sell it like that without telling about real condition and you know it.
At present, we haven't established it's "unroadworthy", so no, it's not a criminal offence.

(Original post by Cristian130)
4. The legislation that make a vehicle unroadworthy? Come on mate seriously? Only an authorized garage can tell if a car is dangerous to drive, if it danger to drive you must repair to a good quality to drive safe, which means is unroadworthy till you repair it and you must not sell it without telling about this issue. I already told you he said he bought the car from a dealership, and after I pay him I asked again after a few days and he denied that he bought the car from a dealership, more then that he said he bought it from a mechanic ( that means he know it that car was hit and he bought the car cheap and after 6-7 month he sold it to me). Something doesn't smell good at all don't you think??
Yes, the legislation that makes a vehicle unroadworthy. Can you quote it?
It's not up to a mechanic to declare "we fink this ting is badman innit bruv giv us all yer money" and that then makes it law.
I am not convinced there is anything dangerous about your vehicle whatsoever; it was declared Category N (so non structural), and it has passed an MOT.
To be absolutely clear, you have ZERO evidence that the seller knew the vehicle was categorised?

(Original post by Cristian130)
5. I do not want an penny in plus, I want justice and him justified the price I pay if he can.
I must pay 4500.00 pounds to repair the car, 700-800 is nothing to me. So I will take him in court for lying about it.
I'm not surprised.. you seem to like throwing money away left right and center, so I'm sure losing the court fees will not be an issue for you... If it were me, I think I'd rather use the money towards doing the car up!


(Original post by Cristian130)
6. The real evidence of him knowing the car was Cat.N is up to Bmw-Mini, he got there for a MOT and he fail because of headlamps that he didn't chanced like he said. I call them and I ask information about the car, they told me over the phone every client of them at MOT got a full information about the car because that's company policy. So in other words if I book a MOT at BMW MINI they would told me about cat N even if I didn't ask them to check it.
A failed MOT for headlamps has nothing to do with the vehicle being Category N.
Do you have tangible evidence that the seller received such documentation from the dealership? No? What a surprise...

(Original post by Cristian130)
7. I didn't say it's illegal because I say so. I told you is illegal to sell a car with serious problem, which he did.
What's the serious problem then? You've yet to convince me of one.

(Original post by Cristian130)
8. I checked the car online on Gov and I trusted the guy.
Fool.

(Original post by Cristian130)
You just have no clue when it comes to defining "unroadworthy". (Define for me please!!)
Nor do you apparently! It's not for me to give you a definition, it's for you to prove. That's how civil court works. You must prove your case. You have no proof.





To summarise, if you insist on carrying on with your foolishness you're going to lose a lot more money for no gain whatsoever. You have not satisfied me that you have sufficient tangible evidence to proceed to court, never mind win a case and obtain a CCJ against the seller. To reiterate because it seems you aren't taking this in... YOU NEED TANGIBLE EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING, AND LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN BROKEN. Everything thusfar has been your interpretation of events.

I'm still confused as to why you refuse to share any of your alleged "evidence" to help on this thread?
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(Original post by IWMTom)
I'm not surprised.. you seem to like throwing money away left right and center, so I'm sure losing the court fees will not be an issue for you... If it were me, I think I'd rather use the money towards doing the car up!
I could fix my entire car for that 600-800. Fix the 02s & MAF, grab a used wing, reattach my headlight, change that bearing & ABS ring, take the roof motor out of it's Sainsbury's bag... I could even get one of those awesomely dodgy looking pulley kits for my supercharger!
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IWMTom
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(Original post by StriderHort)
I could fix my entire car for that 600-800. Fix the 02s & MAF, grab a used wing, reattach my headlight, change that bearing & ABS ring, take the roof motor out of it's Sainsbury's bag... I could even get one of those awesomely dodgy looking pulley kits for my supercharger!
Perhaps you could give the OP some lessons?
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Cristian130
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(Original post by StriderHort)
I could fix my entire car for that 600-800. Fix the 02s & MAF, grab a used wing, reattach my headlight, change that bearing & ABS ring, take the roof motor out of it's Sainsbury's bag... I could even get one of those awesomely dodgy looking pulley kits for my supercharger!
I am not investing a penny in that car. My word over his word in court buy with some more evidence in plus from me.
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Cristian130
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(Original post by IWMTom)
Garages don't have "engineers". They have mechanics.




So how did you get it back from the garage then? :laugh:


At present, we haven't established it's "unroadworthy", so no, it's not a criminal offence.


Yes, the legislation that makes a vehicle unroadworthy. Can you quote it?
It's not up to a mechanic to declare "we fink this ting is badman innit bruv giv us all yer money" and that then makes it law.
I am not convinced there is anything dangerous about your vehicle whatsoever; it was declared Category N (so non structural), and it has passed an MOT.
To be absolutely clear, you have ZERO evidence that the seller knew the vehicle was categorised?


I'm not surprised.. you seem to like throwing money away left right and center, so I'm sure losing the court fees will not be an issue for you... If it were me, I think I'd rather use the money towards doing the car up!



A failed MOT for headlamps has nothing to do with the vehicle being Category N.
Do you have tangible evidence that the seller received such documentation from the dealership? No? What a surprise...


What's the serious problem then? You've yet to convince me of one.


Fool.


Nor do you apparently! It's not for me to give you a definition, it's for you to prove. That's how civil court works. You must prove your case. You have no proof.





To summarise, if you insist on carrying on with your foolishness you're going to lose a lot more money for no gain whatsoever. You have not satisfied me that you have sufficient tangible evidence to proceed to court, never mind win a case and obtain a CCJ against the seller. To reiterate because it seems you aren't taking this in... YOU NEED TANGIBLE EVIDENCE OF WRONGDOING, AND LEGISLATION THAT HAS BEEN BROKEN. Everything thusfar has been your interpretation of events.

I'm still confused as to why you refuse to share any of your alleged "evidence" to help on this thread?
I told you the garage said the car is dangerous to drive mate. So, should I call them liars too??
Who need to inspect the car to give me an full report so I would know if is roadworthy or unroadworthy if the garage can't decide that?
I drove the car home by signature.
How can I proof is unroadworthy if the garage have no right and the insurance engineer too. What makes a car unroadworthy in your opinion??
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