Should mental health services be defunded?

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username5604436
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Some people say they're a waste of money. I know that at my uni they receive more money than all of the other support services such as child care and first aid
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Starship Trooper
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No. Funding needs to increase HOWEVER the current system is unsustainable and is riddled with problems that the useless and cowardly mentality of mindless NHS worship and throwing money at problems can't and will not address that:

A) there will never be enough funding because
B) It's a White Elephant inside a bigger White Elephant which is the NHS.
C) Demand is growing because society is falling apart. These problems were not occuring in the past. the current system is utterly and completely ****ed. And this is s societal and systemic issue which has little easy answers.

People that have genuine MH needs such as BPD and Trauma because say of long term sexual abuse are barely seen and supported whilst affluent teenagers are getting treatment about "anxiety" and "depression" (it's called life).

I think one thing we could do to improve things would be to privatise GP surgeries and allow them to operate in the same way dentists do and to try and create a market for being seen on the day.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
No. Funding needs to increase HOWEVER the current system is unsustainable and is riddled with problems that the useless and cowardly mentality of mindless NHS worship and throwing money at problems can't and will not address that:

A) there will never be enough funding because
B) It's a White Elephant inside a bigger White Elephant which is the NHS.
C) Demand is growing because society is falling apart. These problems were not occuring in the past. the current system is utterly and completely ****ed. And this is s societal and systemic issue which has little easy answers.

People that have genuine MH needs such as BPD and Trauma because say of long term sexual abuse are barely seen and supported whilst affluent teenagers are getting treatment about "anxiety" and "depression" (it's called life).

I think one thing we could do to improve things would be to privatise GP surgeries and allow them to operate in the same way dentists do and to try and create a market for being seen on the day.
Yep, I think people would happily pay to be seen on the day. I have to pay for dentist appointments anyway. I think a system like Germany’s is optimal, where there’s free health care for the poor but pretty much everyone else gets private. There are thirty mental health ‘consultants’ at my uni which I was astounded to learn. Maybe defund is too harsh but funds could definitely be used more effectively
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Iasona)
Yep, I think people would happily pay to be seen on the day. I have to pay for dentist appointments anyway. I think a system like Germany’s is optimal, where there’s free health care for the poor but pretty much everyone else gets private. There are thirty mental health ‘consultants’ at my uni which I was astounded to learn. Maybe defund is too harsh but funds could definitely be used more effectively
Agreed. Germanys is excellent.

The usual mouth breathers will scream about the US system whilst ignoring that other such systems like Germany's exist.

Thirty? Damn. But considering the amount of rubbish that goes on at universities with safe spaces etc I'm not surprised.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Agreed. Germanys is excellent.

The usual mouth breathers will scream about the US system whilst ignoring that other such systems like Germany's exist.

Thirty? Damn. But considering the amount of rubbish that goes on at universities with safe spaces etc I'm not surprised.
Yep, they also seem to forget how often patients from the UK have to be flown out to other countries, usually Germany, to get specialist treatments, especially for certain cancers. Hardly surprising though when there are all these ‘fundraisers’ for the NHS.
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DiddyDec
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I would imagine child care and first aid aren't that needed at a university typically populated by young childless people whereas we have an ongoing national mental health crisis due to the lack of funding by the Government and by the NHS. This has meant that institutions such as your university have needed to pick up where the NHS has failed and continues to fail.

The demand continues to outstrip the supply and the Government show very little interest in actually increasing the supply.

There is now less inpatient care for mental health than any other point in our recorded history of tracking the data.

https://www.strategyunitwm.nhs.uk/si...20191030_1.pdf

Image

We even know how many beds we need to meet targets and yet we aren't catering to the need.

Image

As someone that often works on designing facilities for increasing mental health capacity every single project starts with bold aims and get the budget slashed by the end so it meets no targets and achieves almost nothing, certainly make no real difference to the overall problems.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I think one thing we could do to improve things would be to privatise GP surgeries and allow them to operate in the same way dentists do and to try and create a market for being seen on the day.
GP surgeries are already privately contracted services working using GMS, PMS or APMS contracts. You can't privatise something that is already privatised :facepalm2:
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
GP surgeries are already privately contracted services working using GMS, PMS or APMS contracts. You can't privatise something that is already privatised :facepalm2:
They're on public contracts though like you said. I'm talking to some degree about fully private healthcare which is under no obligation to treat people.

Also current GP do not operate like dentists.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
They're on public contracts though like you said. I'm talking to some degree about fully private healthcare which is under no obligation to treat people.

Also current GP do not operate like dentists.
There is a market for non-NHS GPs if you want to pay typically offered through your health insurance, I have one I can call 24/7.
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
There is a market for non-NHS GPs if you want to pay typically offered through your health insurance, I have one I can call 24/7.
Maybe they should bin the national insurance tax and just create a private healthcare system. It’s pretty insane that a lot of people effectively pay twice for healthcare
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
There is a market for non-NHS GPs if you want to pay typically offered through your health insurance, I have one I can call 24/7.
Not many people are aware of this though. I was only made aware of it by my estate agent.

I think there Could be a case for making it mandatory which I believe many European countries do.
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(Original post by Iasona)
Maybe they should bin the national insurance tax and just create a private healthcare system. It’s pretty insane that a lot of people effectively pay twice for healthcare
I don't the American system you seem to be suggesting here, it doesn't work and damages the health of the population. I would support a French system that gives standard cover for free and then you must pay depending on your level of income. Fees for appointments are paid upfront with 70% being reimbursed as long as you attend. No shows are a real problem in the UK so people have a financial stake in it would mitigate some of the problems.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Not many people are aware of this though. I was only made aware of it by my estate agent.

I think there Could be a case for making it mandatory which I believe many European countries do.
If it is that important to you then you would do the research.

As above, I support the French system having used it a few times and I have family that work within it, their reviews of it have been broadly positive especially when they can directly compare it against the NHS both in terms of service and working conditions.
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
I don't the American system you seem to be suggesting here, it doesn't work and damages the health of the population. I would support a French system that gives standard cover for free and then you must pay depending on your level of income. Fees for appointments are paid upfront with 70% being reimbursed as long as you attend. No shows are a real problem in the UK so people have a financial stake in it would mitigate some of the problems.
In Germany there is a similar system to France, where the poorest get free healthcare and then everyone else takes out a private plan. I wouldn’t stop taxing for healthcare but I think the whole system needs to be redesigned
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by DiddyDec)
If it is that important to you then you would do the research.

As above, I support the French system having used it a few times and I have family that work within it, their reviews of it have been broadly positive especially when they can directly compare it against the NHS both in terms of service and working conditions.
I think that is a cavalier and unrealistic expectation of people with MH problems but whatever.

Sure I think the French system is superior to the UK
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the beer
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)

People that have genuine MH needs such as BPD and Trauma because say of long term sexual abuse are barely seen and supported whilst affluent teenagers are getting treatment about "anxiety" and "depression" (it's called life).
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I'm talking to some degree about fully private healthcare which is under no obligation to treat people.
How would that prevent the problem you've raised above?

(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I think that is a cavalier and unrealistic expectation of people with MH problems but whatever.
They'd still have to seek them out without the NHS wouldn't they?
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(Original post by the beer)
How would that prevent the problem you've raised above?

They'd still have to seek them out without the NHS wouldn't they?
Because these people need to be seen rapidly which the NHS cannot facilitate. I think the only way it would be able to be done us through the profit motive whereby accredited MH providers can facilitate rapid treatment for a fee or a loan.

Why not?
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I think that is a cavalier and unrealistic expectation of people with MH problems but whatever.

Sure I think the French system is superior to the UK
That wasn't a comment about people with MH problems.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Because these people need to be seen rapidly which the NHS cannot facilitate. I think the only way it would be able to be done us through the profit motive whereby accredited MH providers can facilitate rapid treatment for a fee or a loan.

Why not?
That already exists, Cygnet Health Care for instance runs a number of failing private MH instistitutions.
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Because these people need to be seen rapidly which the NHS cannot facilitate. I think the only way it would be able to be done us through the profit motive whereby accredited MH providers can facilitate rapid treatment for a fee or a loan.

Why not?
Seems like it'd be much easier to make money out of rich anxious kids.

Well exactly so whats the solution, getting rid of the NHS won't change anything there.
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