Mass protest overcomes school anti-woke agenda

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Starship Trooper
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#21
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#21
(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Looking past the hot air and inflamed steam, there is a serious point about the traditional teaching of this and other subjects in western schools - for example, the Islamic scholars in medieval times who largely created the foundations of modern mathematics were often overlooked. More disagreeable though is the way in which, for example, IQ tests (used for decades in many societies as ways to filter children out of higher education opportunities) relied on questions wholly aimed at the white middle classes.
Those Islamic scholars were not operating under the framework of mathematics being a social construct and additionally they built upon the work by various Greek scholars.

I can sympathize with your point RE IQ to s certain point. There are lots of different measures of intelligence including eg spatial intelligence that footballers, athletes posses. That said again I don't agree that it's a social construct either as it's something that Asians etc don't have the same problems with.

It appears that people are constructing all sorts highly complex and often contradictory and implausible excuses rather than accept the obvious: that some groups of people are generally (not always ) less bright than others and this contradicts orthodox egalitarian narratives. I think it would be be better for everyone to acknowledge this rather than to blame white people for all ills.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Those Islamic scholars were not operating under the framework of mathematics being a social construct and additionally they built upon the work by various Greek scholars.

I can sympathize with your point RE IQ to s certain point. There are lots of different measures of intelligence including eg spatial intelligence that footballers, athletes posses. That said again I don't agree that it's a social construct either as it's something that Asians etc don't have the same problems with.

It appears that people are constructing all sorts highly complex and often contradictory and implausible excuses rather than accept the obvious: that some groups of people are generally (not always ) less bright than others and this contradicts orthodox egalitarian narratives. I think it would be be better for everyone to acknowledge this rather than to blame white people for all ills.
I agree about the Muslim scholars, my point was that it isn't the case that the UK schools curriculum in core subjects (or, come to that, university course curricula) should be held to be beyond criticism or review on these kinds of things.

From my reading of the history and nature of IQ testing, it's all pretty pseudscientific and it isn't really clear what the results show.
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anarchism101
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
As Rakas said this would have been very popular in white majority schools.
Nope, would be unpopular even in plenty of white majority schools in the UK too. Most schools in West Belfast are majority white, but good luck telling them they have to fly the Union Jack! Similar efforts to impose a homogenising "British" curriculum would likely also go down badly in large parts of Scotland and Wales.

This shows Simply that many minorities do not see themselves as British and do not want to integrate into society in which case what are they doing here exactly???
Minorities are actually more likely to see themselves as British than white people. With the exception of Northern Irish Protestants, whites tend to identify more strongly with their constituent country than with Britain as a whole, whereas minorities tend to identify more strongly with Britain.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by anarchism101)
Nope, would be unpopular even in plenty of white majority schools in the UK too. Most schools in West Belfast are majority white, but good luck telling them they have to fly the Union Jack! Similar efforts to impose a homogenising "British" curriculum would likely also go down badly in large parts of Scotland and Wales.

Minorities are actually more likely to see themselves as British than white people. With the exception of Northern Irish Protestants, whites tend to identify more strongly with their constituent country than with Britain as a whole, whereas minorities tend to identify more strongly with Britain.
+1 for an interesting response and the study which I largely agree with.

On your first point let me clarify then that those measures implemented would be popular with most of England rather than the UK as a whole. And this is I think the root of the problem: opposition to English (Nationalism) . Which may in part be why the SNP and Plaid are so eager to court ethnic minorities.

This can also explain why ethnic minorities largely voted to Remain in the EU but also in Scotland voted to Leave the UK.

Britain used to have strong cultural connotations eg as part of the Empire and was basically English Nationalism: Scotland and Wales were part of it but didn't get much if any say.

Now "British" doesn't mean anything really: by making it a home for "everyone" it's now a home for no one (other than immigrants with no fixed loyalty to the place who will leave if something better comes up) which is why the natives attach greater significance to their country.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
I agree about the Muslim scholars, my point was that it isn't the case that the UK schools curriculum in core subjects (or, come to that, university course curricula) should be held to be beyond criticism or review on these kinds of things.

From my reading of the history and nature of IQ testing, it's all pretty pseudscientific and it isn't really clear what the results show.
I agree to a certain extent but I would say that if you are unable to criticise "Vulnerable groups" then you should also be unable to criticise white people. Or ideally you should be able to criticise any group or fashionable opinion. This is not the case now.

Out of Interest:

Do you believe that Intelligence is a social construct? (there are no objectively "smart" or "dumb" people?
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Absolutely hilarious. I don't know what's funnier the article or how Full of Surprises interpreted it 🤣🤣🤣🤣

As Rakas said this would have been very popular in white majority schools. This shows Simply that many minorities do not see themselves as British and do not want to integrate into society in which case what are they doing here exactly???

I don't blame minorities for not feeling included or not wanting to learn about s bunch of white people. If I had to live in Africa say I probably wouldn't want to learn about African history either tbh. But then I wouldnt move to another country and have the arrogance to expect them to change their curriculum and culture for my benefit...

I have a African friend and if this sort of thing happened in the school he went to back home eg disrespecting the national flag they would get caned. I think that's the only sensible answer. ..
Exactly.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
How about European, darling.
They only start treating it as one when they want to b!tch about "whiteness".
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-Imperator-
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#28
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's a good reminder that anti-woke is actually an utterly unrepresentative right wing cause espoused by a small but powerful group in the media, Tory Party and fringe alt-right.
Keep telling yourself that :rofl:
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Wōden
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
Funny story.. I can't understand a head teacher who does this.

I mean, fair enough if you want to go and create a western-conservative education setting that focuses on traditional british culture etc. fine.. but why the hell would you try and do that in a school that is 75% non-white school in London? What's his next plan, become the boss of a Jewish faith school and start teaching Anti-Semitism?
Aren't the non-white kids just as 'British' as the white ones? Well it doesn't look like they consider themselves so.

Were we to live in a racist society his actions should be celebrated. Instead he's being condemned within the educational community, and the bodies and forces of the educational institution (unions, teachers, ofstead, etc) are now all against him and he is clearly going to fail.

That's a pretty good reflection of how far our society has come.
A load of non-white students demonstrate their hostility towards British culture and history, which is apparently so intense that they will not even tolerate the union flag in their presence, and staged a revolt against their school over a policy and curriculum that would be absolutely uncontroversial in just about any majority white school outside of London... I don't think that's a particularly good reflection of our society at all, that looks like a society that is increasingly becoming segregated along racial and ethnic lines.
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Joleee
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is it just me or does the link in the OP direct you to the front page of The Daily Mail and not the article in question?
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Wōden)
that they will not even tolerate the union flag in their presence
So just to repeat, the students did not demand the flag be removed. I suspect that this was done as a deliberate anti-woke provocation by the school head.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by Joleee)
is it just me or does the link in the OP direct you to the front page of The Daily Mail and not the article in question?
Oh sorry, I was in too much of a rush. Some more media coverage.
https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-vote-in-head

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...m-b927281.html

The Academy's own statement (interesting to read what they say about the Union Jack - it was clearly their decision to take it down)
https://www.pimlico.futureacademies....ch+2021&pid=75
Last edited by Fullofsurprises; 2 weeks ago
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Joleee
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Oh sorry, I was in too much of a rush. Some more media coverage.
https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...e-vote-in-head

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/p...m-b927281.html

The Academy's own statement (interesting to read what they say about the Union Jack - it was clearly their decision to take it own)
https://www.pimlico.futureacademies....ch+2021&pid=75
that's great thank you!
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Fullofsurprises
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Mail has a write-up about the head teacher at the centre of it.
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ow-school.html
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Ascend
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(Original post by Wōden)
Aren't the non-white kids just as 'British' as the white ones? Well it doesn't look like they consider themselves so.



A load of non-white students demonstrate their hostility towards British culture and history, which is apparently so intense that they will not even tolerate the union flag in their presence, and staged a revolt against their school over a policy and curriculum that would be absolutely uncontroversial in just about any majority white school outside of London... I don't think that's a particularly good reflection of our society at all, that looks like a society that is increasingly becoming segregated along racial and ethnic lines.
There's nothing more pathetic than giving in to bigots. The Woke have essentially legitimised the narrative of "white supremacy" in the U.S. and now our own identitarians are conceding their own country's flag to white nationalists.
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DSilva
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Why does a school need a union flag in the first place? Why are we trying to copy the USAs rather boring obsession of never being more than two metres away from a flag?
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fallen_acorns
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(Original post by DSilva)
Why does a school need a union flag in the first place? Why are we trying to copy the USAs rather boring obsession of never being more than two metres away from a flag?
I think its because people feel that their sense of national pride/national image is being threatened, so they are resorting to tokenism rather than actually having the argument.

E.g. The conservative party would much rather fly a few flags and put on a show of patriotism, rather than actually have to sit down and take part in the current societal debates over how we view ourselves as a nation and our place in history. It's much easier and less controversial to put on a bit of show and be done with it.
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DSilva
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I think its because people feel that their sense of national pride/national image is being threatened, so they are resorting to tokenism rather than actually having the argument.

E.g. The conservative party would much rather fly a few flags and put on a show of patriotism, rather than actually have to sit down and take part in the current societal debates over how we view ourselves as a nation and our place in history. It's much easier and less controversial to put on a bit of show and be done with it.
I agree.

The 'left wing' argument is that you make people prouder to be British and more patriotic by making this country better, tackling poverty, raising living standards, being outward looking and inclusive etc. Not (simply) by waving flags.

The NHS makes me far prouder to be British than any Union Jack ever will.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by DSilva)
Why does a school need a union flag in the first place? Why are we trying to copy the USAs rather boring obsession of never being more than two metres away from a flag?
It gets ridiculous in the States, flags on kids toys, flags in lavatory blocks, flags on parking meters. Everyone is sooo scared not to show the least tiny bit of lack of patriotism.

The folks who wrote books in the 20s and 30s about the dangers of flag waving and tub thumping weren't wrong.
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Fullofsurprises
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(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I think its because people feel that their sense of national pride/national image is being threatened, so they are resorting to tokenism rather than actually having the argument.

E.g. The conservative party would much rather fly a few flags and put on a show of patriotism, rather than actually have to sit down and take part in the current societal debates over how we view ourselves as a nation and our place in history. It's much easier and less controversial to put on a bit of show and be done with it.
Totally agree. The flag gesturing is preventing us from properly evaluating our new situation. The UK is now an outsider country on the global level and that needs a lot of discussion, thinking about and planning. Instead, we are getting reflex jingoism and absurd posturing.
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