Mass protest overcomes school anti-woke agenda

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Rakas21
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#41
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#41
(Original post by DSilva)
Why does a school need a union flag in the first place? Why are we trying to copy the USAs rather boring obsession of never being more than two metres away from a flag?
(Original post by fallen_acorns)
I think its because people feel that their sense of national pride/national image is being threatened, so they are resorting to tokenism rather than actually having the argument.

E.g. The conservative party would much rather fly a few flags and put on a show of patriotism, rather than actually have to sit down and take part in the current societal debates over how we view ourselves as a nation and our place in history. It's much easier and less controversial to put on a bit of show and be done with it.
The simple answer to you both is that playing the flag plays well. According to a recent Youguv poll 61% of people believe themselves fairly or very patriotic and if we assume they don't feel shame at that then that's a large constituency to play to.

The Tories play to that and 55% Of people do view them as fairly or very patriotic (35% for Labour so perhaps Starmer is not as stupid trying to play to that more).

More pertanantly though, 58% of people believe the flag should be flown at all times on government buildings (most people do associate schools as government buildings). This means that actually outside London especially, this kind of debate probably does play very well for the government and objection to it is the preserve of the London liberals.
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Fullofsurprises
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Rakas21)
More pertanantly though, 58% of people believe the flag should be flown at all times on government buildings (most people do associate schools as government buildings). This means that actually outside London especially, this kind of debate probably does play very well for the government and objection to it is the preserve of the London liberals.
It's actually quite sinister to view schools as 'government buildings' and what happened to the supposed independence of the new academies, etc, in that model?
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Rakas21
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#43
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
It's actually quite sinister to view schools as 'government buildings' and what happened to the supposed independence of the new academies, etc, in that model?
Central government dictating to schools and hospitals could be sinister to you I suppose but I was actually referring to parents who for the most part have no idea what the difference between a comprehensive, academy and free school is and simply view these things in terms of 'state education' rather than private.
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Starship Trooper
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#44
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(Original post by DSilva)
I agree.

The 'left wing' argument is that you make people prouder to be British and more patriotic by making this country better, tackling poverty, raising living standards, being outward looking and inclusive etc. Not (simply) by waving flags.

The NHS makes me far prouder to be British than any Union Jack ever will.
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Meanwhile at labour HQ:' "simply waving flags" will get those racist Northerners back!'

_---------------_--------

On a serious note re your point on the 'left wing argument' for being proud to be British.

That's actually an awful view to have. This land is your home. It's not just an area where you get benefits or perks from. What happens when tough times occur as they will in every country? Your point is basically that your loyalty lies with whoever is able to provide you with the most material benefit. There's a word for that ...
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Starship Trooper
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#45
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#45
Every school should have the Union Jack Flying proudly, and students should be required to salute it after singing 'Land of hope and glory' at the start of every school day.

Dissenters should be publicly caned and if this continues expelled.
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Fullofsurprises
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Every school should have the Union Jack Flying proudly, and students should be required to salute it after singing 'Land of hope and glory' at the start of every school day.

Dissenters should be publicly caned and if this continues expelled.
Why not go the whole hog and behead students who refuse to rise to their feet when the Empire is praised, or slavery saluted?
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Starship Trooper
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#47
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(Original post by Fullofsurprises)
Why not go the whole hog and behead students who refuse to rise to their feet when the Empire is praised, or slavery saluted?
That's just silly... A simple caning will suffice.

The British Empire ended slavery - very unprofitable business.
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Fullofsurprises
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#48
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#48
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
That's just silly... A simple caning will suffice.

The British Empire ended slavery - very unprofitable business.
I suppose so long as the 'cane' is a serious whip then fine. We wouldn't want the slightly non-jingoistic to go unpunished, would we.
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caravaggio2
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#49
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After Starmer came out in favour of the flag and declaring himself a partiot , whichever Tory came up with the flags on every building idea is playing a blinder, as it has put Starmer between a rock and a hard place with lots of people on the left. Whats his response going to be when Labour voters start pulling down flags or Labour councils refuse to fly them every day?
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Azagthoa
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#50
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Good, I'm glad these kids have stood up for themselves and protested this pro-Britain, pro-white supremacy ******** the school was pushing. The union jack is called the Butcher's Apron for a reason. For centuries the British cavorted round the world destroying the lives of Black and Brown peoples and causing untold pain and misery. The children at this school carry that generational trauma and should not have to hear this pro-white, pro-Britain version of 'history'. Instead we should be teaching anti-colonialist theory, the brutal history of British colonialist history, and teach all subjects, not just history through a race critical lens designed to improve the lives and outcomes of BAME people.
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caravaggio2
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#51
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Good, I'm glad these kids have stood up for themselves and protested this pro-Britain, pro-white supremacy ******** the school was pushing. The union jack is called the Butcher's Apron for a reason. For centuries the British cavorted round the world destroying the lives of Black and Brown peoples and causing untold pain and misery. The children at this school carry that generational trauma and should not have to hear this pro-white, pro-Britain version of 'history'. Instead we should be teaching anti-colonialist theory, the brutal history of British colonialist history, and teach all subjects, not just history through a race critical lens designed to improve the lives and outcomes of BAME people.
Dearie me how very backward of you.
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Napp
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#52
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#52
(Original post by Rakas21)
The simple answer to you both is that playing the flag plays well. According to a recent Youguv poll 61% of people believe themselves fairly or very patriotic and if we assume they don't feel shame at that then that's a large constituency to play to.

The Tories play to that and 55% Of people do view them as fairly or very patriotic (35% for Labour so perhaps Starmer is not as stupid trying to play to that more).

More pertanantly though, 58% of people believe the flag should be flown at all times on government buildings (most people do associate schools as government buildings). This means that actually outside London especially, this kind of debate probably does play very well for the government and objection to it is the preserve of the London liberals.
ahh patriotism, the all encompassing excuse to be a **** in the modern world it seems. Shame really ass it used to mean something (and we used to have something to be proud of but im just a cynic like that) it was amusing seeing Corbyn spectacularly fail that test though/
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Starship Trooper
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#53
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(Original post by Napp)
ahh patriotism, the all encompassing excuse to be a **** in the modern world it seems. Shame really ass it used to mean something (and we used to have something to be proud of but im just a cynic like that) it was amusing seeing Corbyn spectacularly fail that test though/
Big agree
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Genaro_
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Every school should have the Union Jack Flying proudly, and students should be required to salute it after singing 'Land of hope and glory' at the start of every school day.

Dissenters should be publicly caned and if this continues expelled.
You joke, but a serious injection of patriotism and appreciation of our country wouldn't go amiss these days. Especially in places where integration is clearly failing.
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Genaro_
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#55
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#55
(Original post by Azagthoa)
Good, I'm glad these kids have stood up for themselves and protested this pro-Britain, pro-white supremacy ******** the school was pushing. The union jack is called the Butcher's Apron for a reason. For centuries the British cavorted round the world destroying the lives of Black and Brown peoples and causing untold pain and misery. The children at this school carry that generational trauma and should not have to hear this pro-white, pro-Britain version of 'history'. Instead we should be teaching anti-colonialist theory, the brutal history of British colonialist history, and teach all subjects, not just history through a race critical lens designed to improve the lives and outcomes of BAME people.
Any child/parent who doesn't like thenflag, our country, and it's history is by no means obligated to remain here. It's not a popular opinion, but rather than staying here and assaulting our heritage, they could leave.
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Starship Trooper
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#56
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#56
(Original post by Genaro_)
You joke, but a serious injection of patriotism and appreciation of our country wouldn't go amiss these days. Especially in places where integration is clearly failing.
I was being 90% serious in that statement.

I am in favour of mild corporal punishment at schools and religious / patriotic songs.
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Genaro_
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#57
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I was being 90% serious in that statement.

I am in favour of mild corporal punishment at schools and religious / patriotic songs.
I went to a Christian school where faith and patriotism were taught and appreciated and I am grateful for that.

I am unsure where I stand on corporal punishment, mild or otherwise.
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Starship Trooper
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#58
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(Original post by Genaro_)
I went to a Christian school where faith and patriotism were taught and appreciated and I am grateful for that.

I am unsure where I stand on corporal punishment, mild or otherwise.
My primary school was like that and it was great.

I went to a secular comprehensive where people smoked in classrooms, urinated in class and occasionally assaulted teachers .
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Genaro_
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#59
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
My primary school was like that and it was great.

I went to a secular comprehensive where people smoked in classrooms, urinated in class and occasionally assaulted teachers .
I was fortunate enough to attend a secondary scho that had the same principles as my primary school, where I had access to practice my faith and to study.
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