Why are poor people poor?

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Quady
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#41
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#41
(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
More Likely doesn’t mean Impossible, my dad grew up in Bangladesh. While he wasn’t poor he certainly wasn’t well off by this countries standards
Indeed. We agree.
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64Lightbulbs
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#42
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
I have sympathies for such people but they are a tiny minority.

No, in fact I think that's a positive. Such people should not be having kids. Working class should have few and upper classes have lots
Capitalism really will sell you the rope that you hang it with.
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64Lightbulbs
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#43
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(Original post by uberteknik)
Castrate poor people: anyone earning less than say £100K should solve the problem.

Wouldn't even need to do all of them. The poorest 15% first would likely be enough to grab the rests attention thus galvanising a revolution in educational attainment, corporate productivity and slashing the welfare system costs in less than a generation.
i can't even tell if that's sarcastic.
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uberteknik
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(Original post by 64Lightbulbs)
i can't even tell if that's sarcastic.
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hotpud
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
Many, why?
So would you say you have an advantage over people who have no books. I imagine your parents read to you as a child? And encouraged you to read?

Now compare yourself to children who get little or no attention from their parents. Who don't have books. Who aren't encouraged to do anything positive. That goes part of the way to explaining why the poor are poor. Poverty isn't a choice. Sure, if you have intelligence and skills, you could put yourself in an artificial impoverished situation and get yourself out of it. But you would only get out of poverty because you have the skills and contacts to do so.

There is a programme on Discovery about millionaires who start of with something like $100 and end up turning it into $1 million in a month. The only reason millionaires can do this is because they have the skills and contacts to do that. You couldn't give $100 to someone who has only known poverty and a book on how to make a million in a month and expect it to work. If it was that easy we would all be millionaires.
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RamseyGOAT
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(Original post by hotpud)
So would you say you have an advantage over people who have no books. I imagine your parents read to you as a child? And encouraged you to read?

Now compare yourself to children who get little or no attention from their parents. Who don't have books. Who aren't encouraged to do anything positive. That goes part of the way to explaining why the poor are poor. Poverty isn't a choice. Sure, if you have intelligence and skills, you could put yourself in an artificial impoverished situation and get yourself out of it. But you would only get out of poverty because you have the skills and contacts to do so.

There is a programme on Discovery about millionaires who start of with something like $100 and end up turning it into $1 million in a month. The only reason millionaires can do this is because they have the skills and contacts to do that. You couldn't give $100 to someone who has only known poverty and a book on how to make a million in a month and expect it to work. If it was that easy we would all be millionaires.
It’s not just about contacts though it is possible to get out of poverty without a private school education or good parents.
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hotpud
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
It’s not just about contacts though it is possible to get out of poverty without a private school education or good parents.
Of course it is. But it is extremely difficult when you have basically been trained to have no hope, no work ethic and no aspiration to work.

You could argue that it isn't that difficult to become a millionaire. Yet we don't question why so few actually achieve such status. Yet by the same measure, it is the poor's fault for being poor.
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Quady
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
It’s not just about contacts though it is possible to get out of poverty without a private school education or good parents.
You're just not willing to risk either though right?
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
Thought about this today and just couldn’t understand how someone born in this country can have valid excuses about being poor. (Bar the obvious ofc such as disability)
The way you put it down is a little problematic as you implying that a large number of people should find a reasonably good excuse for being poor. As if most are rich and wealthy and hence poverty is the exception in the rule...

However this is not the case as poverty in the UK is as real as in any other country. What generates poverty in the first place is....poverty itself. People who are poor have much less opportunities in life and many are socially excluded.

There is also extreme poverty, see those who are homeless, marginalized, or the long term unemployed. All of those have obviously a lower life expectancy.

I think I have answered your question. But there is something wrong with the way it was posed and the word 'excuse' that you used..
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by hotpud)
Of course it is. But it is extremely difficult when you have basically been trained to have no hope, no work ethic and no aspiration to work.

You could argue that it isn't that difficult to become a millionaire. Yet we don't question why so few actually achieve such status. Yet by the same measure, it is the poor's fault for being poor.
Yes in principle about from the last paragraph. I don't think you can argue that it is not difficult to become s millionaire when the number of millionaires are few in comparison to the population of 67 million in the UK. Taking into account that the average salary is £38,600 per year for those in full time employment it makes it rather difficult to accumulate one million pounds. You need over 25 years without paying any taxes and without having any other obligations. And probably without eating or drinking or...breathing...
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
No I’m not attacking people in third world countries, I’m just saying if u grow up on an estate here it’s still more than what a lot of people around the world have. Ur still getting fantastic opportunities in comparison to others, so when someone says ‘oh I’m doing this cos I failed at school, but it was the system, it was made against me’ I think it’s invalid
You are comparing different countries that have different standards in terms of poverty which is defined very differently.

The comparison is unfortunate between developed countries and third world countries.
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by Contested Claim)
I am going to assume you are still at school and have no experience of the adult world. I will also assume that you haven't been paying attention in any humanities or social science subjects you take, because these topics are covered extensively.

The socioeconomic status of your parents has a huge influence on how well you do in education (it is also a very strong indicator of your future income). Come from the right background and, illness or disability aside, you have to seriously **** up to not do well academically, to not attend a good university, and to not have a range of job opportunities that will give you a good standard of living. The opposite is also true, come from a low income background and you'll find your opportunities much more limited. Going to the local school in a low income area where only a minority of pupils attain decent grades is obviously going to limit your opportunities.

As to why young adults struggle to pick themselves up by the bootlaces can be down several reasons. It can be situational such as living in an area with limited opportunities and lacking the financial resources to move away. It can be psychological such externalising the attitude that you've been written off and are a failure already. It can also simply be because it is a really difficult thing to do one you take on adult responsibilities. Someone may finish school with poor grades and take a job as a kitchen porter. They work hard and become a chef but where do they go from there? They are still earning barely above minimum wage. Work extremely hard over a number of years and stand out among your colleagues, and you may become a sous or even head chef. But even those jobs don't pay all that much compared to many run of the mill graduates after a decade in their careers. Of course they could take an access course to go to university as a mature student but how the hell do you make a serious commitment to education when you are working 50-60 hours a week in a physically draining job just to make ends meet? That is the reality of being an adult.

I use the chef example deliberately. It is an industry I use to work in between finishing school and starting university. It is full of hard working, committed individuals who work stupidly long shifts in return for little pay and limited job security. Not only did it toughen up me up from a fragile middle class kid (my current graduate job that sees me sat on my backside most of the day is a breeze by comparison), but utterly demolished the lazy belief that you can be successful just through hard work and a bit of drive.
This is what I thought by reading the text by the user. It looks like they are still at School and they don't have much experience from life. They haven't understood yet that a large number of kids in this country live in poverty or just above the poverty level and life is very difficult for many.

Let's see the figure again. The average salary for those in full time employment in the UK is around £38,600.
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RamseyGOAT
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Quady)
You're just not willing to risk either though right?
Ofc not no one would throw away either
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RamseyGOAT
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Lucifer323)
This is what I thought by reading the text by the user. It looks like they are still at School and they don't have much experience from life. They haven't understood yet that a large number of kids in this country live in poverty or just above the poverty level and life is very difficult for many.

Let's see the figure again. The average salary for those in full time employment in the UK is around £38,600.
Fair point, I don’t think the number of poor is that high
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Quady
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
Ofc not no one would throw away either
Because the system doesn't matter.
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RamseyGOAT
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(Original post by Quady)
Because the system doesn't matter.
That’s not the system that’s having a supporting family that are well off. That is just life. Tbh we are going round in circles now, let’s just agree to disagree
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
Fair point, I don’t think the number of poor is that high
It is I am afraid but not advertised a lot in the media..
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imlikeahermit
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Because years and years of liberal policies have put them in a revolving circle of thinking that it’s entirely acceptable to not work hard, or not study hard, or not encourage their children in education because the system will be there to hold their hand all the way, and give them free money for doing nothing. That is why we have generations of ‘poor’ families who are perennially propped up by the benefit system. These people should not be having children. When they do, the state should be removing them from their care, to break the revolving circle.

For as much as the left fully believe that the right victimise the poor, I believe it is the other way round. The left victimise the rich. It is not Jeff Bezos’ fault that Jimmy No-GCSEs hasn’t done well in life. It’s his own fault.
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Quady
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(Original post by RamseyGOAT)
That’s not the system that’s having a supporting family that are well off. That is just life. Tbh we are going round in circles now, let’s just agree to disagree?
So it's just life when it benefits you, but when people are poor it's not just life?

I agree it's just life, but you seem to think that's true of you but not everyone else.
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Lucifer323
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(Original post by imlikeahermit)
Because years and years of liberal policies have put them in a revolving circle of thinking that it’s entirely acceptable to not work hard, or not study hard, or not encourage their children in education because the system will be there to hold their hand all the way, and give them free money for doing nothing. That is why we have generations of ‘poor’ families who are perennially propped up by the benefit system. These people should not be having children. When they do, the state should be removing them from their care, to break the revolving circle.

For as much as the left fully believe that the right victimise the poor, I believe it is the other way round. The left victimise the rich. It is not Jeff Bezos’ fault that Jimmy No-GCSEs hasn’t done well in life. It’s his own fault.
Hello Hermit,

There is some degree of truth in what you said however poverty is a condition that most people are involuntarily participating. From my experience nobody wants to be poor or sick.
Sickness and poverty are what everyone tries to avoid.

Now if the state policies are such that encourage the cycle to be repeated then such policies should be abandoned.

My understanding is that the state, regardless of who is up there, has realised that a good number of citizens are unlikely to break the bondage of poverty and hence the culture of benefits is tolerated by both labour and conservative governments. Although the conservatives are against this culture traditionally, they can't do much about it.
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