uberteknik
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May I be the first to congratulate Vlad on his overwhelming democratic electoral victory in the forthcoming Russian 2024 and 2030 presidential elections.

He secured this after annihilating the opposition and riding on the success of annexing Donbass and Crimea when he ordered Russian forces to protect the freedom of choice for new Russian citizens living in those former Ukraine regions.

Russia warned on Thursday 31 march 2021 that a serious escalation in the conflict in Donbass could "destroy" Ukraine as NATO voiced concern over what it said was a big Russian military build-up near eastern Ukraine.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-r...-idUSKBN2BS18W

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-56616778

Last edited by uberteknik; 1 week ago
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Napp
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Well props if nothing else to gaming the system so well. It is a shame that someone wqho brought Russia off its knees so well has decided to revert to orthodoxy, autocracy and nationality. A true shame for the Russians who deserve better than squalid corruption of the rankest order. Then again, we should also remember it was us who sowed the seeds for this by enabling Yeltsin to lay the ground work for this. We not only bought the election for this corrupt little drunk but enabled him at every step thus allowing this to happen. Plenty of blame for all to share.

A couple of things to bear in mind though, whilst these very naughty actions might offend western sensibilities (irony abounds considering our/Americas crooked electoral systems) the Russians broadly dont mind this very much. Contrary to the garbage propagated by CNN et al. on the protests they were less to do with Putin himself than very specific policies (like pension reforms) and many of the ones 'clamoring' for western style reforms are a very small minority in the cities (something i imagine a few users here should be able to sympathise with given the brexit similarities). All this nonsense on the western media outlets completely misses the point that whenever they get a 'russian expert' to comment on the situation their opinion is of only marginal use given they exist in the liberal bubble and are certainly not representative of most Russians. Something astutely pointed out in a piece from the Russian Carnegie centre recently.

As to Ukraine though, aside from the Donbass not being annexed, it is worth watching the continued build up of heavy artillery on both sides (and Ukraines purchase of Turkish drones which could have an interesting impact on the conflict) i doubt Ukraine will be allowed to regain control over those territories, if for no other reason than the government in Kiev is loathed by the inhabitents there - after all who is it thats shelling their homes?

One thing i am inclined to ask though is, given peoples rattling on about sovereignty, right to chose blah blah blah, why exactly is there such strong objecting to the break away regions? Of course there are some fundamental differences between them and say, Brexit, Catalonia or Scotland but the fact still remains that a fair section there have no desire to be governed from Kiev (and rightly so in ones opinion given the way Kiev had ignored them in the past) that isnt to say their current warlord governors are better (also note that Russia explicitly has not annexed them).

Broader point being, it would be wise not to try and over simplify a civil war (this being one) with trite and hackneyed soundbites about the evil bear to the east who, whilst obviously not helping by any stretch, is doing little more than keeping the conflict at a low simmer - unless the Ukrainian movement of heavy artillery for the new offensive makes much of a difference. Although, in addition to that comment, and not in opposition to it, Russian strategic thought is still grounded in the experiences of the world wars and theyre not about to let NATO sink its talons into Ukraine - something that really needs to be kept in mind by Hawks in Washington and other Capitols when they try to stick a finger in Moscows eye. Moscow has everything to play fopr and will keep to that line, NATO members really need to remember this basic truism in that whilst this might just be a game or some trite act of principle to them this is not how Moscow sees it and they risk a serious escalation if they continue to ignore Russias grievances (whether they agree with them or not).
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Rakas21
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To answer your question Napp I don't think the objection is to weakening Ukraine via seperation but to strengthening Russia. They are not one of us.
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Stalin
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Image
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Starship Trooper
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Putin is an absolute boss who loves his people, loves his country and loves God. Biden, Boris, Macron, Merkel et al- they aren't fit to wash the feet of this great man.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=h538y7jeRW4&t=207s
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The RAR
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God bless Putin, the man is a man of his people and his country
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Rakas21
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The Russia love here is painful as a neo-con and western supremicist.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Rakas21)
The Russia love here is painful as a neo-con and western supremicist.
Good, Embrace Authoritarianism. Reject cringe liberalism.

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Ascend
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BRB gonna conduct sociological study on the relationship between dictatorphiles and daddy issues.
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Napp
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(Original post by Rakas21)
To answer your question Napp I don't think the objection is to weakening Ukraine via seperation but to strengthening Russia. They are not one of us.
Yes and no, i mean they're the same thing in a manner of speaking. A 'weak' Ukraine is not an end in of itself as far as the Russian General Staff are concerned (although i doubt they object) the principle aim is to keep Ukraine tied to the Slavic world and to keep NATO out - something i find it jhard to thnik anyone would actually disagree with without either lying or being a hypocrite (as an example, imagine the hissy London would throw is Ireland suddenly tried to align itself with Moscow).
At any rate i still find the commentary from 2nd rate media outlets like CNN on the matter better to ignore. They have an outrageous political bias (that isnt to say we should listen to RT instead, although they do give a handy insight into how the Russian government thinks) but in the Donbass Russia is not about to annex anything, even if they could get away with it they wouldnt want it.

What exactly do you mean by 'not one of us' though? (an interesting thing to say when you then said the western supremacist thing) Are you talking racial, cultural, political etc. or what? I mean, whatever the answer it seems a slightly silly thing to say given the vast breadth of Russia in all these domains. A liberal from Moscow is more 'one of us' than a northern builder, aside from being a Slav and not an anglosaxon in terms of political outlook.
(Original post by Rakas21)
The Russia love here is painful as a neo-con and western supremicist.
Whats wrong with appreciating Russia, its people and culture? ITs a fascinating contry and one that, for good or ill, has an incredibly large impact on world events and a culture that happily sits amongst the other great European ones be it the works of Gogol or Rachmaninov.
As to western supremacist's, arent most of the users on this site guilty of that? Either that or being "BAME" supremacist's, ironically enough
(Original post by Ascend)
BRB gonna conduct sociological study on the relationship between dictatorphiles and daddy issues.
One merely likes Russia itself, having studied it for near 10 years its par for the course now :lol: My relationship with daddy dearest doesnt have too much of a bearing on my respect for Putin as a leader (at least before he turned into a dictator, something that i still lament greatly both for trashing what would otherwise have been a great legacy and Russia's current status).
As far as dictators go though, hes pretty innocuous, no? Compared to the modern Mao and almost every leader in Africa, Central Asia, (various other bits of Asia) and MENA he hasnt really done that much outside of being a rampant kleptocrat with one or two heads to his name. Call me morally iffy but as far as our support for dictators goes (and we support all of them really) he's one of the less offensive, murderous and generally odious ones by most metrics.
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Starship Trooper
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Napp

Do you really think Putin would have been able to accomplish what he has under a "liberal democracy" considering the many corrupt and hostile forces against him?
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The RAR
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Good, Embrace Authoritarianism. Reject cringe liberalism.

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I would rather live by good authoritarianism than useless liberalism, Putin has the right idea.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Napp)
Yes and no, i mean they're the same thing in a manner of speaking. A 'weak' Ukraine is not an end in of itself as far as the Russian General Staff are concerned (although i doubt they object) the principle aim is to keep Ukraine tied to the Slavic world and to keep NATO out - something i find it jhard to thnik anyone would actually disagree with without either lying or being a hypocrite (as an example, imagine the hissy London would throw is Ireland suddenly tried to align itself with Moscow).
At any rate i still find the commentary from 2nd rate media outlets like CNN on the matter better to ignore. They have an outrageous political bias (that isnt to say we should listen to RT instead, although they do give a handy insight into how the Russian government thinks) but in the Donbass Russia is not about to annex anything, even if they could get away with it they wouldnt want it.

What exactly do you mean by 'not one of us' though? (an interesting thing to say when you then said the western supremacist thing) Are you talking racial, cultural, political etc. or what? I mean, whatever the answer it seems a slightly silly thing to say given the vast breadth of Russia in all these domains. A liberal from Moscow is more 'one of us' than a northern builder, aside from being a Slav and not an anglosaxon in terms of political outlook.

Whats wrong with appreciating Russia, its people and culture? ITs a fascinating contry and one that, for good or ill, has an incredibly large impact on world events and a culture that happily sits amongst the other great European ones be it the works of Gogol or Rachmaninov.
As to western supremacist's, arent most of the users on this site guilty of that? Either that or being "BAME" supremacist's, ironically enough
No true but I was pointing out that most of us don't really care about Ukraine being weaker in the way we don't care about Catalonia leaving, arguably a weaker Spain and Ukraine is better for everybody but Ukraine and Spain. The problem here is that they would fall into Russia's orbit so regardless of Russia's motives it should not be tolerated or encouraged.

In terms of hypocracy again that's not something I care for. As much as I don't like the EU as an institution I view it's member states as western nations that must be captured at the very least in economic terms. Like it or not but while Russia is not the USSR it is sorrounded by smaller, weaker nations. By not being one of us that means that we are in conflict at least in our aims and more pertanantly our rival customs unions (and in the EU's case it's encouragement of democracy). I hold no bones about the fact that I have picked my side and am quite happy for the US/EU to do what is nessesary to expand our sphere.

Probably more it's structure and policial culture. If it was ever close to free and fair democracy, that dream died in 2012 when Putin had opponents arrested. It's credentials as a market economy are sketchy at best given how corrupt it is, full of oligarchs and controlled by corporations. It is a member of OPEC+ (sadly we don't have another large shale producer since the EU won't let Poland go hard and Argentina seems to not know what to do with it). It is in opposition to most of our geo-strategic aims.

Sure it's a nice country in art and history and the like but so is China and Syria. It means at best we might like a holiday.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Rakas21)
given how corrupt it is, full of oligarchs and controlled by corporations.
.
Hahaha!!!! Have you looked at America???

The corporations have so much power in the US they can censor the sitting president!

The Biden Admin is chock full of lobbyists and "ex" Amazon, big tech and defence contractors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...again-facebook
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The RAR
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Hahaha!!!! Have you looked at America???

The corporations have so much power in the US they can censor the sitting president!

The Biden Admin is chock full of lobbyists and "ex" Amazon, big tech and defence contractors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...again-facebook
America really has no business giving moral lectures to other countries, they should clean up their own backyard first.
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Rakas21
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Hahaha!!!! Have you looked at America???

The corporations have so much power in the US they can censor the sitting president!

The Biden Admin is chock full of lobbyists and "ex" Amazon, big tech and defence contractors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...again-facebook
The US has far too much corporate influence but it has a free(ish) market economy that makes up a good chunk.

It's not the same corrupt mess that Russia is.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Starship Trooper)
Hahaha!!!! Have you looked at America???

The corporations have so much power in the US they can censor the sitting president!

The Biden Admin is chock full of lobbyists and "ex" Amazon, big tech and defence contractors.

https://www.theguardian.com/commenti...again-facebook
TBF they enjoy that power because it benefits politicians inside the establishment clique. The minute it ceased to, it would go. Which should further highlight how corrupt it is.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by Rakas21)
The US has far too much corporate influence but it has a free(ish) market economy that makes up a good chunk.

It's not the same corrupt mess that Russia is.
Why does it make up for it?

Not yet anyway. Additionally at least Russian corporations are generally loyal to the Russian state and don't promote anti white sjw nonsense like coca cola, Goldman Sachs et Al.
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TCA2b
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(Original post by Ascend)
BRB gonna conduct sociological study on the relationship between dictatorphiles and daddy issues.
You'd probably find more fruitful results out of conducting one on the relationship between people agitating for a nanny state and that, rather than anything specific to whether you have a preference for power concentrated in one person or power concentrated in shadowy oligarchs with the veneer of popular representation.
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Starship Trooper
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(Original post by The RAR)
America really has no business giving moral lectures to other countries, they should clean up their own backyard first.
Agreed

Russia has a lot if problems, no ones denying that. But things are getting better in Russia. In the west the reverse is true. Putin doesn't need to have 10k troops protecting him in Moscow and there aren't mass protests of people that hate Russia that want to tear down their history and heritage.
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