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Reply 1
I think it's usually acknowledged that because of the massive funding differences, and number of potential applicants, Harvard and some of the other american giants are that bit more competitive than Oxbridge, and a degree from them is somewhat more prestigious.
Reply 2
If one is good enough to get into Oxford, he is good enough to get into a top American Uni, but not necessarily vice-versa because of the educational system in American schools and the high accent placed on ECs etc.

Been there, done that. It's possible.
Reply 3
I think based on merit, a majority of students accepted into Oxbridge have the capacity to also succeed at the Ivy League schools, based only on academic performance. People who go to Oxbridge are usually motivated, hard workers, enthusiastic about their subject and relatively self-sufficient anyway. Whether they did their subject at Harvard or Oxford, theyd still be successful. This potential being a vital admissions factor, theyd be likely to get in.

I believe the UK 'elite' unis are far more equitable than their US counterparts. A report recently published in the Economist described how you are 25 times as likely to run into a rich student as a poor one. Anyone know a comparative figure for Oxbridge?

Anyway, admissions factors with Ivy League are also based on 'legacies'- if you're parents went to Yale& co. you're 3 times more likely to get in. And yes it is true, your extra-curricular activies need to be amazing. In short, it favours the kind of child that has been ferried around from ballet class to chess, from piano lessons to extra maths all their lives. For the most part.
Reply 4
oxbridge and ivy league universities are looking for slightly different people and so although there will be a core group who would get into both there are many who would be more suitable for one over the other.
For instance ivy league unis with their liberal arts degress are looking for quite well rounded people who are academic but also have lots of extra curricular activities music, sport and community service

although at oxbridge extra curricular activities are good the main emphasis is knowing a lot about your subject and having read around it a lot. As you are specalising a lot earlier they therefore need to have different entry requirements.

There is also the element of luck in that for both ivy league and oxbridge they have a lot of candidates who are good enough but not quite good enough but on a different day might have got a place.

i dont see why anyone graduating from oxford could teach at princeton if you mean at a kind of proffesor level. unless they were going on to a PhD which often requires you to do a little bit of teaching
Maybe a candidate is not equally likely to get into both Oxford and, say, Yale (because Yale's much more competitive, American system (and society? discuss) much more middle-class orientated. God, George W went to Yale!) but I would imagine this candidate has an equal chance of doing well at either institution (esp. at undergrad level. Obv for research the richer uni will be more competitive ie harder to get into).

As regards the 25:1 thing. I don't imagine it would be exceptionally different at Oxbridge, but then it depends how you define "rich". If you're talking oil magnate, then obviously it won't be so high, but if you're talking middle-class (let's say coming from a family whose net income is c. £50,000+/) you're probably just as likely to meet at both.

I don't really have very much to base this on, except the vast majority of students who achieve top grades go to good schools and have middle-class, educated backgrounds
Reply 6
WhatFreshHell?

..it depends how you define "rich". If you're talking oil magnate, then obviously it won't be so high, but if you're talking middle-class (let's say coming from a family whose net income is c. £50,000+/) you're probably just as likely to meet at both.


apologies for the random tangent..

*chokes* your net income should be £50,000+ to be 'middle class'? (the average wage in this country is ~£23,000, yes..?) you might be surprised by the large number of us "working class" people in oxford by your criteria... :mad: :wink:

in fact, i prefer your net income classification to be called socio-economic status or something rather than 'class' at all..people in Class I by the RG Classification (based on job status etc. which doesn't necessarily correlate with income) can be on under £30,000 - albeit this is probably before they have families..hmm.
Reply 7
in fact some 'upper class' (different to the scale) are awfully poor in terms of cash in that most of their income goes straight back into their house and land which they cant really sell. there was that channel four documentary on one of those familities a while back, cant remmeber the name though
fishpaste
I think it's usually acknowledged that because of the massive funding differences, and number of potential applicants, Harvard and some of the other american giants are that bit more competitive than Oxbridge, and a degree from them is somewhat more prestigious.


Would you not say that an Undergraduate degree from the UK is considered more prestigious, due to the higher level of study involved, whereas a US postgrad degree might be considered more prestigious than one from Britain?
magicalsausage
Would you not say that an Undergraduate degree from the UK is considered more prestigious, due to the higher level of study involved, whereas a US postgrad degree might be considered more prestigious than one from Britain?

That is also the common perception among yanks whenever ive read through some of their student forums.
fishpaste
I think it's usually acknowledged that because of the massive funding differences, and number of potential applicants, Harvard and some of the other american giants are that bit more competitive than Oxbridge, and a degree from them is somewhat more prestigious.

Ive actually heard americans say its viewed as more impressive in the states if you go to Oxford and that an Oxford education is more prestigious over there than an Ivy League one. Its contentious however although ive never seen anyone argue that there is any great difference in the perception or advantages of attending the elite on either side of the Atlantic.
Reply 11
Generally its impossible to say that one ivy league or oxbridge degree is more impressive than another. if an ivy league person and an oxbridge person applied for the same job in most circumstances it would be much more down to what sort of person they were rather than which degree they had and if you had two candidates equal in all ways except where they got their degree from (which by anture of the different systems is even more impossible than normal) it would probably go down to the perceptions and bias of the interviewer more than anything
Reply 12
WhatFreshHell?
As regards the 25:1 thing. I don't imagine it would be exceptionally different at Oxbridge, but then it depends how you define "rich". If you're talking oil magnate, then obviously it won't be so high, but if you're talking middle-class (let's say coming from a family whose net income is c. £50,000+/) you're probably just as likely to meet at both.
I think Rich means a little more than that. Looking at Princeton applications, financial aid statistics are done in a table, for how many people get financial aid corresponding to their parents income. The lowest of the 9 income bands is 0-$100,000 per year. That means, presuming they split it relatively equitably with regards to the number of students in each band, 8/9 princeton students have a family income of more than $100,000 per year. When they say rich, they mean rich. People with family incomes of $350,000-400,000 were still recieving financial aid.
Reply 13
I know quite a few people getting offers from both Cambridge and American unis. But also people, who got rejected by Cambridge, went to Yale afterwards.

I think the students that American unis are seeking for are slightly different from what Oxbridge are. Oxbridge are purely academicwise while American unis want some more-well-rounded people. There's a girl in China getting an offer from Harvard with full scholarship this year. She's one of the only two early decisions in Asia from Harvard. It is said that she's roughly just Top 20% in her school, ie. Top 100 in her school. But she's been to the States for one year as an exchange student and has surprisingly amazing extra curricula records.

I think they're roughly the same. If one can be accepted by Oxbridge, he/she may have a big chance of getting into American unis.

As there're no restrictions in applying for american unis, not like the Oxbridge policy, I think, in a way, it's not as competitive as Oxbridge. Coz even the Ivy Big Threes may send out many more offers than the actual places to guarantee the student number for they're competing with about 10 unis with similar prestige and quality.

(Btw, the admission process in American unis is quite evil... :rolleyes: )
Reply 14
FoxyStar
(Btw, the admission process in American unis is quite evil... :rolleyes: )


why??? lol - coz they have to sit appitude tests?

I had to sit a maths entrance test for Oxford, and i absolutely messed it up - think i got 50% or less! But i've just heard from someone what the Oxford wide average was 35% !!!!! So i think that factor helped me stand out of my thickness - but boy, was that test weird! It is nothing like A-level tests! You actually had to think in it, which is a rarity in A-levels nowadays :wink:
Reply 15
an Siarach
Ive actually heard americans say its viewed as more impressive in the states if you go to Oxford and that an Oxford education is more prestigious over there than an Ivy League one. Its contentious however although ive never seen anyone argue that there is any great difference in the perception or advantages of attending the elite on either side of the Atlantic.


I don't know where you have heard this, but personally I very much doubt that it is actually true (not that you have heard Americans say this, but that it is true). I think in the eyes of most people the top American universities are the most prestigious in the world they are the richest, they have the most top researchers, they come out at the top in most international university rankings and I think the Americans themselves are the last people in the world not to realize this.

Some Americans, especially younger ones, may think that Oxbridge is more prestigious because they have an impression that it is "classier" (they are impressed by the age of the institutions and the whole Oxbridge "image"). But this kind of impression often involves just the kind of ideas that Oxford and Cambridge are trying to get rid of (because it involves the Brideshead Revisited-type view of Oxbridge). This doesn't mean that these Americans think that Oxbridge is more academically prestigious.
fiat_lux!
I don't know where you have heard this, but personally I very much doubt that it is actually true (not that you have heard Americans say this, but that it is true). I think in the eyes of most people the top American universities are the most prestigious in the world they are the richest, they have the most top researchers, they come out at the top in most international university rankings and I think the Americans themselves are the last people in the world not to realize this.

Some Americans, especially younger ones, may think that Oxbridge is more prestigious because they have an impression that it is "classier" (they are impressed by the age of the institutions and the whole Oxbridge "image"). But this kind of impression often involves just the kind of ideas that Oxford and Cambridge are trying to get rid of (because it involves the Brideshead Revisited-type view of Oxbridge). This doesn't mean that these Americans think that Oxbridge is more academically prestigious.


It depends how you measure prestige, really. If it is in terms of the quality of research produced, then American Universities clearly are the most prestigious in the world - they have so much more money to throw around than anyone else. But in terms of actual level of education received (arguably the purpose of universities in the first place), I have heard from several sources that British degrees are of a significantly higher standard.
Reply 17
magicalsausage
...British degrees are of a significantly higher standard.


True. I have also heard that the level of education in american Highschools and university is considerably lower than here. I've herad somewhere that they do A-level grade maths stuff in univeristy!!! But the reason why i belieev that american institutions rank higher is because they offer higer wages, so all the best prfessors/ researchers from Europe and Russia flock to the USA. This affects the league tables, because most tables are done on research merit, and richer uni implies better pay + better professors+better research standard=good world ranking:smile:

The UK institutions on the otherhand, have higher standards than our american conterparts whom enter uni as undergrads. (not sure on the technicalities of this), but its true on teh whole, i think. We have less good professors, so our research here is not as good as the american unis's therefore Oxbridge is slightly below Harvard, Stanford, etc.

If there was a value added table to the university rankings, taking into consideration facors such as money available to universities etc, i'm pretty sure oxbridge would come top.

Your views?
Reply 18
Couldn't comment on a changeover between under/post graduate. But I agree that Oxford is regarded as exceptionally prestigious in the US, and many americans consider it to be the best in the world. But as discussed above, often for fantasy reasons. I suspect they're the same ones who think Oxford is in London :wink:
Reply 19
Phil23
why??? lol - coz they have to sit appitude tests?

I had to sit a maths entrance test for Oxford, and i absolutely messed it up - think i got 50% or less! But i've just heard from someone what the Oxford wide average was 35% !!!!! So i think that factor helped me stand out of my thickness - but boy, was that test weird! It is nothing like A-level tests! You actually had to think in it, which is a rarity in A-levels nowadays :wink:



Hey Phil :hello: I'd be interested in how you found out about the 35% average, and if it's verifiable! (interested party here for Dec. 2005 :rolleyes: :cool: :redface: )

Ta!