Bunny-hop123
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Hello everyone,
My plan is to do a Secondary PGCE with QTS, and then complete my NQT year, and teach another year, and then start to apply to teach in English speaking schools overseas.
However I have been told that some PGCE qualifications are not accepted overseas. Has anyone else heard about this?
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k1tsun3
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If you are looking to teach at a British school overseas, you should be fine. If not, then it will depend on the country. Some will accept it and some won't. In the US, this would be done on a state by state basis. You'll need to see if the country you wish to work in has a reciprocity agreement.
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by k1tsun3)
If you are looking to teach at a British school overseas, you should be fine. If not, then it will depend on the country. Some will accept it and some won't. In the US, this would be done on a state by state basis. You'll need to see if the country you wish to work in has a reciprocity agreement.
Thank you so much. I can legally work in the USA as I'm dual national, but I confess that the social problems there do terrify me. I prefer a quiet life. I am keen to work in a British school overseas - and I hear they need three years experience on the CV ... I confess that I just want to teach, and then relax in the sunshine and avoid the high crime/high housing costs of the UK
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k1tsun3
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
Thank you so much. I can legally work in the USA as I'm dual national, but I confess that the social problems there do terrify me. I prefer a quiet life. I am keen to work in a British school overseas - and I hear they need three years experience on the CV ... I confess that I just want to teach, and then relax in the sunshine and avoid the high crime/high housing costs of the UK
I don't blame you. I have US citizenship as well. Was raised over there and couldn't imagine returning. I don't know how my sisters manage. I wouldn't teach there and I definitely wouldn't want my son going to school there either. I was just using it as an example as many ask about it.

A old roommate of mine taught in Australia with her PGCE. Yes, if you go to a British school overseas, they are private and tend to want 2-3 years of experience. Some also prefer you to have a Masters. You can sometimes find openings listed on TES. Keep an eye out see what they are all looking for so you can plan accordingly.
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by k1tsun3)
I don't blame you. I have US citizenship as well. Was raised over there and couldn't imagine returning. I don't know how my sisters manage. I wouldn't teach there and I definitely wouldn't want my son going to school there either. I was just using it as an example as many ask about it.

A old roommate of mine taught in Australia with her PGCE. Yes, if you go to a British school overseas, they are private and tend to want 2-3 years of experience. Some also prefer you to have a Masters. You can sometimes find openings listed on TES. Keep an eye out see what they are all looking for so you can plan accordingly.
Thank you, I have a Masters and a PGCE (FE), but sadly I don't have the QTS to go with it. People say "do the Assessment only route", but you have to get a school to take you first, and they don't want to. I suspect there's no financial incentive. Very intersting to note about Australia, as I used to live in Coogee, near Sydney, and loved it.

Thank you also for your understanding about the USA. I was partly raised there too, and it is difficult to know what to say, when people go "Oh, you should go back". I find it to be an ugly angry country. I wonder if there will be a civil war? Schools are not great. The quality of life in the major cities is very poor. Alot of stress, particularly for females.
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Quiet Benin
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
Hello everyone,
My plan is to do a Secondary PGCE with QTS, and then complete my NQT year, and teach another year, and then start to apply to teach in English speaking schools overseas.
However I have been told that some PGCE qualifications are not accepted overseas. Has anyone else heard about this?
Hi

We have the same thinking. I too wanna do PGCE then complete NQT then leave this country for good.

But the more i research, the more i realise PGCE is useless as an international qualification.

It's a tough situation i understand.
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Bunny-hop123
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Hi

We have the same thinking. I too wanna do PGCE then complete NQT then leave this country for good.

But the more i research, the more i realise PGCE is useless as an international qualification.

It's a tough situation i understand.
Thank you for your reply. Great that we are on the same page with the PGCE. I wonder what to make of the results of your research - that the PGCE is not a great international qualification? I am coming to the same conclusion, but can't work out why this is the case. It used to be a "thing" to do a PGCE in the UK, work for a few years and then head for less stressful conditions.
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I wonder what to make of the results of your research - that the PGCE is not a great international qualification? I am coming to the same conclusion, but can't work out why this is the case.
For example, if i was going to teach in America. I have found that most states will not accept PGCE. They will tell you to complete their 'own pgce' - Basically starting again.

I have looked at British international schools in my home country as well as others, it seems very recently they have changed their entry requirements for British applicants. It Looks like the UAE is the only country to accept PGCEs with no problems. I know plenty people teaching in Dubai, my former lecturer is one of them.

I guess for you, i don't know which country you want to go for, but there is something called TEFL where you can teach in asian countries, that seems like the easy option.
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by Quiet Benin)
For example, if i was going to teach in America. I have found that most states will not accept PGCE. They will tell you to complete their 'own pgce' - Basically starting again.

I have looked at British international schools in my home country as well as others, it seems very recently they have changed their entry requirements for British applicants. It Looks like the UAE is the only country to accept PGCEs with no problems. I know plenty people teaching in Dubai, my former lecturer is one of them.

I guess for you, i don't know which country you want to go for, but there is something called TEFL where you can teach in asian countries, that seems like the easy option.
I've looked into TEFL via a company called "EF" and there seems to be alot of angry people online saying "I've paid for the course and it was cancelled... where's my refund?" Very interesting to know about America, thank you. I wonder if the recent changes that you discovered in your home country are to do with Brexit? Thank you for sharing your research.
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k1tsun3
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One option is after you gain QTS is to look into a Masters in Education that offers the opportunity to gain the IB teacher certification. You will need to find a school to gain experience in it, but it is an options.

One of the cheapest ways to get the IB teacher cert is via University of the People. However, it is currently only DEAC accredited, so national instead of regional in the US and I don't know how it would be seen in certain parts of the world. But it does have a partnership to offer a pathway to the IB teaching cert. https://www.ibo.org/news/news-about-...ion-programme/

University of Bath also has 2 pathways to achieve the IB teacher cert - distance learning and summer school options to complete modules. They offer an MA in Education and a PGCiE. They don't provide QTS though and IB experience is needed. Since you would really need about 3 years of experience to get a job abroad, you could complete you NQT year and then look for a new job where you could get IB expereince - or look for one from the start. Most will be at independent schools but there are some state schools that offer the IB. I believe the Bow School in East London does, at least they did when I interviewed there as an NQT.
https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/pos...ucation-pgcie/
https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/int...-certificates/
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by k1tsun3)
one option is after you gain qts is to look into a masters in education that offers the opportunity to gain the ib teacher certification. You will need to find a school to gain experience in it, but it is an options.

One of the cheapest ways to get the ib teacher cert is via university of the people. However, it is currently only deac accredited, so national instead of regional in the us and i don't know who it would be seen in certain parts of the world. But it does have a partnership to offer a pathway to the ib teaching cert. https://www.ibo.org/news/news-about-...ion-programme/

university of bath also has 2 pathways to achieve the ib teacher cert - distance learning and summer school options to complete modules. They offer an ma in education and a pgcie. They don't provide qts though an ib experience is needed. Since you would really need about 3 years of experience to get a job abroad, you could complete you nqt year and then look for a new job where you could get ib expereince - or look for one from the start. Most will be at independent schools but there are some state schools that offer the ib. I believe the bow school in east london does, at least they did when i interviewed there as an nqt.
https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/pos...ucation-pgcie/
https://www.bath.ac.uk/campaigns/int...-certificates/
thank you !!!!!
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k1tsun3
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
thank you !!!!!
Happy to help. I did a lot of research quite a few years ago as I was considering teaching abroad. I did notice some countries require a masters (some in education and some subject based). My wife is Dutch and we were considering moving to the Netherlands and to teach at the highest secondary level (VWO - university prep), you have to have masters in your subject and be a qualified teacher - I think it's the same for HAVO (general secondary that preps for applied universities). I think most of the Scandinavia countries require a masters as well, although I don't know if it's in education or subject related. Definitely peruse international teaching job boards to see what's on offer. Things have been complicated with Brexit to remain in Europe and teach now. I'd also say if there are a few countries you are really interested in, then research the specifics for those countries. Usually UAE and China do the most recruiting. My undergrad supervisor spent years teaching in South Korea and loved it.

Good luck with your search.
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by k1tsun3)
Happy to help. I did a lot of research quite a few years ago as I was considering teaching abroad. I did notice some countries require a masters (some in education and some subject based). My wife is Dutch and we were considering moving to the Netherlands and to teach at the highest secondary level (VWO - university prep), you have to have masters in your subject and be a qualified teacher - I think it's the same for HAVO (general secondary that preps for applied universities). I think most of the Scandinavia countries require a masters as well, although I don't know if it's in education or subject related. Definitely peruse international teaching job boards to see what's on offer. Things have been complicated with Brexit to remain in Europe and teach now. I'd also say if there are a few countries you are really interested in, then research the specifics for those countries. Usually UAE and China do the most recruiting. My undergrad supervisor spent years teaching in South Korea and loved it.

Good luck with your search.
THANK YOU! I've got a Masters and three other post grad qualifications - but trying to get onto a PGCE with QTS in the UK is really hard. I have a background in teaching in Further and Higher education in the UK, and have a PGCE FE. But when I tried to get QTS, I got eight rejections and no interview. So my feeling was to move overseas eventually and teach there. Thank you so much.
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Get into Teaching
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
Hello everyone,
My plan is to do a Secondary PGCE with QTS, and then complete my NQT year, and teach another year, and then start to apply to teach in English speaking schools overseas.
However I have been told that some PGCE qualifications are not accepted overseas. Has anyone else heard about this?
Hello Bunny-hop123

The problem you are encountering lies in the fact that the Post Graduate Certificate in Education is an academic qualification (ie gained through researching and writing assignments and essays) and Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) is the practical experience and application of the Teacher Standards. The Teacher Standards is a set of standards written by the UK government. This has been adopted by some states/countries in the world, but in most cases, for state-maintained education, there will be specific local rules, laws and standards that would need to be adhered to, to enable you to gain employment in that state/country.

For Independent (from the state) schools, which are usually also schools where students pay fees, the rules on employment are more variable. Some may specify an amount of experience, others may consider specific qualifications, frequently it's a combination of both.

The bottom line is that NO specific qualification or experience from the UK will guarantee overseas (from the UK) teaching employment, even in British International schools. While a PGCE is internationally recognised, it may not meet the local education authorities expectation, or even the independent schools recruitment criteria and so researching the local rules, regulations and recruitment criteria for the place you'd like to relocate to is the only viable course of action.

If you'd like help to apply for a teacher training course in England, then we're available to help! Register here!

All the best, Jane
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Bunny-hop123
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(Original post by Get into Teaching)
Hello Bunny-hop123

The problem you are encountering lies in the fact that the Post Graduate Certificate in Education is an academic qualification (ie gained through researching and writing assignments and essays) and Qualified Teacher Status (QTS) is the practical experience and application of the Teacher Standards. The Teacher Standards is a set of standards written by the UK government. This has been adopted by some states/countries in the world, but in most cases, for state-maintained education, there will be specific local rules, laws and standards that would need to be adhered to, to enable you to gain employment in that state/country.

For Independent (from the state) schools, which are usually also schools where students pay fees, the rules on employment are more variable. Some may specify an amount of experience, others may consider specific qualifications, frequently it's a combination of both.

The bottom line is that NO specific qualification or experience from the UK will guarantee overseas (from the UK) teaching employment, even in British International schools. While a PGCE is internationally recognised, it may not meet the local education authorities expectation, or even the independent schools recruitment criteria and so researching the local rules, regulations and recruitment criteria for the place you'd like to relocate to is the only viable course of action.

If you'd like help to apply for a teacher training course in England, then we're available to help! Register here!

All the best, Jane
Fantastic advice. Very clear. I understand it now. Thank you Jane. I did register with "get into teaching" and my advisor was helpful. She said, "You've got an MA, and two other post grad qualifications. You've got a PGCE (FE) and teaching experience. You've got a clear DBS and great refs, and you can't get on the PGCE with QTS???" She couldn't work it out. I couldn't work it out. I had eight rejections, with no interview at all.
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
Fantastic advice. Very clear. I understand it now. Thank you Jane. I did register with "get into teaching" and my advisor was helpful. She said, "You've got an MA, and two other post grad qualifications. You've got a PGCE (FE) and teaching experience. You've got a clear DBS and great refs, and you can't get on the PGCE with QTS???" She couldn't work it out. I couldn't work it out. I had eight rejections, with no interview at all.
I'm stunned. What subject are you applying for? Jane
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Bunny-hop123
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I'm stunned. What subject are you applying for? Jane
I applied for English.
On my CV is says ENGLISH AND DRAMA BA (hons). It is from a respected university.
I have also got a PG Diploma in Eng Lit, plus a PGCE FE, plus an MA, plus teaching experience.
One of the feedback notes was "But you have not got English A level"
I've got an A in English at A level.
Nobody bothers to read your qualifications it seems. They just make assumptions based on what? I've no idea.
I did a Zoom chat with a woman who ran a SCITT course near where I live.
She was equally unable to read the CV and was a bit dismissive.
"Have you got an A level in English?"
I said, "Yes, and I've taught English as a Supply teacher, and I've got a Post grad education in the subject."
That isn't what I wanted to know - she sneered - I wanted to know if you have an A-level in English???
I said "YES" and a MASTERS LEVEL in ... (and then I realized that she wasn't listening)

It is the aggressive tone that is difficult to comprehend from these teacher training people.
It is all a bit depressing.
I have an up to date and clear DBS. I am not a criminal, so I don't understand the aggression.

Another strange bit of feedback came from an all girls grammar school in the South Manchester area.
When I had taught religious studies there on supply, (not my subject, but I'm good at RS) the girls went to the Head teacher and said, "Please employ her".
The Head offered me a job in a school in a school that they mentor, Oldham, but the commute would have been two hours each way, so I had to refuse.
Anyway. This school has a training course.
I did apply in the hope that they would remember me.
They didn't, and the feedback from my failed application did not take into account my successful time as a supply teacher there. The previous Head had left.

The failure feed back from the Teacher training person was "probably unable to cope with the University study - it would be beyond your intellectual capability".

I pointed out that I had been teaching University, and had created, taught, and assessed approx 20 University undergraduate courses. I also pointed out that I had four post grad qualifications.

Nevertheless the feedback remained the same from this Girls Grammar in South Manchester area... We think you are not intelligent enough to do PGCE with QTS for us.

I pointed out that my employment as a supply teacher at that school had been extended and extended, so I must have been doing something right. The teacher trainer refused to contact the RS teacher who had booked me, since she had left the school. Her name was Rebecca. So there was no way of giving proof that I had done a good supply job - and - with the way that the Teacher Trainer was behaving, I am not sure it would have done any good anyway.
She just kept on giving really odd failure feedback.
One of the feedback notes was this - that as a former actor, I must be "self-centred" and not able to be "student aware"
I pointed out that the students themselves did not give this feedback, and if they would care to contact the former Head, she would explain that the students were very enthusiastic - mainly because I am highly organised teacher. I believe in being methodical, with frequent stops for Q&A and a clear Plenary. The Aims and Objectives of each lesson are on the A4 sheet and on the board. It is all about being aware of the student's linear narrative and former actors are already skilled in that.
The teacher training person did not understand what I meant.

I got the impression that her exposure to former actors turned teachers, was non-existent, but that her enthusiasm for X factor type shows, was very much part of her impression of performers.

She had rejected me based on
1) Not reading my CV and Not clicking on my teaching website.
2) Not being able to work out that four post grad qualifications DOES mean that you can cope with university work.
3) Not realizing that actors can be student-aware during their pedagogical practice.
4) Not realizing that when a former supply teacher at your school, was highly respected, you might want to consider that gaining QTS would be a good thing, based on the references of those who employed her. Even if it is difficult to contact those people, it might be wise to make an effort?

My mentor at the government-teaching advice line was in absolute stitches of laughter about this, and I said, "I am incredulous too and seeing the funny side is a great option"
She said, "Do you know how old this teacher training woman was at A..... Grammar?"
I said, "My guess is that she's about twenty four"
She said, "That's the problem. Your experience of teaching is more extensive than hers, your qualifications are better than hers, and you probably scared the living daylights out of her"
I said, "I'm acting on a TV commercial at the moment. Do you think if she saw me with a wobbly chin doing cheesy acting, she'd get over herself a bit"
My mentor said, "Not a chance. Move on. There's a reason why there is a high turn over of staff in that school" She had a point. It is a great school, and I loved doing supply there, but the attitude of the teacher training woman made me think that it might have a bit of a dark side. All schools do, but her inability to engage with me was a worry.

Much as I would LOVE to name the school, I can only suggest that an ALT ternative way to gain QTS lies ahead of me. Thanks for reading.
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k1tsun3
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Bunny-hop123 WOW! Just WOW! If that's how they are responding, I'd count my blessings that you aren't going to be working at those schools. As disheartening as rejections can be, I've found that often I'm glad to have been rejected in the long run.

As I said earlier, I would definitely looking into an agency. If you're good, many schools will ask for you long-term or perm. I got all but one of my teaching jobs through a recruiter. I opted to use one straight out of my PGCE because I wasn't having much luck on my own and was heading back to the US to visit family, so I needed to secure a post before the trip and it worked. I really loved that school. It wasn't perfect, but my department was very supportive and the school had a good community feel. Agencies also mean fewer applications to fill out as you only complete them after you interview, even for permanent posts.

I can't believe the responses you've got. It's crazy.
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(Original post by Bunny-hop123)
I applied for English.
On my CV is says ENGLISH AND DRAMA BA (hons). It is from a respected university.
I have also got a PG Diploma in Eng Lit, plus a PGCE FE, plus an MA, plus teaching experience.
One of the feedback notes was "But you have not got English A level"
I've got an A in English at A level.
Nobody bothers to read your qualifications it seems. They just make assumptions based on what? I've no idea.
I did a Zoom chat with a woman who ran a SCITT course near where I live.
She was equally unable to read the CV and was a bit dismissive.
"Have you got an A level in English?"
I said, "Yes, and I've taught English as a Supply teacher, and I've got a Post grad education in the subject."
That isn't what I wanted to know - she sneered - I wanted to know if you have an A-level in English???
I said "YES" and a MASTERS LEVEL in ... (and then I realized that she wasn't listening)

It is the aggressive tone that is difficult to comprehend from these teacher training people.
It is all a bit depressing.
I have an up to date and clear DBS. I am not a criminal, so I don't understand the aggression.

Another strange bit of feedback came from an all girls grammar school in the South Manchester area.
When I had taught religious studies there on supply, (not my subject, but I'm good at RS) the girls went to the Head teacher and said, "Please employ her".
The Head offered me a job in a school in a school that they mentor, Oldham, but the commute would have been two hours each way, so I had to refuse.
Anyway. This school has a training course.
I did apply in the hope that they would remember me.
They didn't, and the feedback from my failed application did not take into account my successful time as a supply teacher there. The previous Head had left.

The failure feed back from the Teacher training person was "probably unable to cope with the University study - it would be beyond your intellectual capability".

I pointed out that I had been teaching University, and had created, taught, and assessed approx 20 University undergraduate courses. I also pointed out that I had four post grad qualifications.

Nevertheless the feedback remained the same from this Girls Grammar in South Manchester area... We think you are not intelligent enough to do PGCE with QTS for us.

I pointed out that my employment as a supply teacher at that school had been extended and extended, so I must have been doing something right. The teacher trainer refused to contact the RS teacher who had booked me, since she had left the school. Her name was Rebecca. So there was no way of giving proof that I had done a good supply job - and - with the way that the Teacher Trainer was behaving, I am not sure it would have done any good anyway.
She just kept on giving really odd failure feedback.
One of the feedback notes was this - that as a former actor, I must be "self-centred" and not able to be "student aware"
I pointed out that the students themselves did not give this feedback, and if they would care to contact the former Head, she would explain that the students were very enthusiastic - mainly because I am highly organised teacher. I believe in being methodical, with frequent stops for Q&A and a clear Plenary. The Aims and Objectives of each lesson are on the A4 sheet and on the board. It is all about being aware of the student's linear narrative and former actors are already skilled in that.
The teacher training person did not understand what I meant.

I got the impression that her exposure to former actors turned teachers, was non-existent, but that her enthusiasm for X factor type shows, was very much part of her impression of performers.

She had rejected me based on
1) Not reading my CV and Not clicking on my teaching website.
2) Not being able to work out that four post grad qualifications DOES mean that you can cope with university work.
3) Not realizing that actors can be student-aware during their pedagogical practice.
4) Not realizing that when a former supply teacher at your school, was highly respected, you might want to consider that gaining QTS would be a good thing, based on the references of those who employed her. Even if it is difficult to contact those people, it might be wise to make an effort?

My mentor at the government-teaching advice line was in absolute stitches of laughter about this, and I said, "I am incredulous too and seeing the funny side is a great option"
She said, "Do you know how old this teacher training woman was at A..... Grammar?"
I said, "My guess is that she's about twenty four"
She said, "That's the problem. Your experience of teaching is more extensive than hers, your qualifications are better than hers, and you probably scared the living daylights out of her"
I said, "I'm acting on a TV commercial at the moment. Do you think if she saw me with a wobbly chin doing cheesy acting, she'd get over herself a bit"
My mentor said, "Not a chance. Move on. There's a reason why there is a high turn over of staff in that school" She had a point. It is a great school, and I loved doing supply there, but the attitude of the teacher training woman made me think that it might have a bit of a dark side. All schools do, but her inability to engage with me was a worry.

Much as I would LOVE to name the school, I can only suggest that an ALT ternative way to gain QTS lies ahead of me. Thanks for reading.
Hello Bunny-hop123

I feel our paths may have crossed as some of what you tell here is familiar to me already? Perhaps in the Facebook groups?

I feel that getting to know the providers really well in the first place is vital, as in some respects, I do think you've dodged a really poor attitude from the training providers you've encountered. Teacher Training course providers are all very different in terms of their values, ethics, experience and levels of support, and so making sure you apply to the best place for an individuals personal circumstance, experience and attitudes is important.

One option I think you may consider is the Assessment Only route to QTS. It's designed for people with similar circumstances to yourself (an unqualified, but experienced teacher) https://getintoteaching.education.go...only-providers

Jane
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Bunny-hop123
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Bunny-hop123 WOW! Just WOW! If that's how they are responding, I'd count my blessings that you aren't going to be working at those schools. As disheartening as rejections can be, I've found that often I'm glad to have been rejected in the long run.

As I said earlier, I would definitely looking into an agency. If you're good, many schools will ask for you long-term or perm. I got all but one of my teaching jobs through a recruiter. I opted to use one straight out of my PGCE because I wasn't having much luck on my own and was heading back to the US to visit family, so I needed to secure a post before the trip and it worked. I really loved that school. It wasn't perfect, but my department was very supportive and the school had a good community feel. Agencies also mean fewer applications to fill out as you only complete them after you interview, even for permanent posts.

I can't believe the responses you've got. It's crazy.
That you and I agree - there is always a good reason for rejections. Easy to think "Ok, I dodged a bullet there". I think that the posher the school, the more competitive the 24 year old teacher training people ARE towards people who have more experience. But schools who are full of long term dedicated teachers and who are less posh, tend to be more polite- also- they seem to be able to read, which is a bonus.
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I'm worried that I’m not academically prepared for the next stage in my educational journey (18)
9.57%
I'm worried it will impact my future career (12)
6.38%
I'm worried that my grades will be seen as ‘lesser’ because I didn’t take exams (47)
25%
I don’t think that receiving these grades will impact my future (25)
13.3%
I think that receiving these grades will affect me in another way (let us know in the discussion!) (15)
7.98%

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