The Student Room Group

Reply 1

Reply 2

thomaskurian89

But this rule is not in my syllabus (fp1), am I allowed to use directly?

Reply 3

You're expected to bracket the roots. If you find a, b with f(a) < 0, f(b) > 0, then you know f has a root between a and b.

So if, for example, you could show f(-10)<0, f(-9)>0 amd f(-8) < 0, you'd know there was a root between -10 and -9, and a root between -9 and -8.
Similarly, if you showed f(10) < 0 and f(11) > 0, you'd know there was a root between 10 and 11.

(Those numbers won't work - you'll have to find some that do by trial and error).

Reply 4

DFranklin
You're expected to bracket the roots. If you find a, b with f(a) < 0, f(b) > 0, then you know f has a root between a and b.

So if, for example, you could show f(-10)<0, f(-9)>0 amd f(-8) < 0, you'd know there was a root between -10 and -9, and a root between -9 and -8.
Similarly, if you showed f(10) < 0 and f(11) > 0, you'd know there was a root between 10 and 11.

(Those numbers won't work - you'll have to find some that do by trial and error).

Thanks, I will do that then

Reply 5

Instead of trial and error, it might help to sketch the graph, calculating a few key points:

Maximum point,
Minimum point,
Where the line meets the y-axis.

With these three data, you can see how many roots are negative and how many are positive.

Reply 6

Sketch the graph.

Reply 7

hykim1
Instead of trial and error, it might help to sketch the graph, calculating a few key points:

Maximum point,
Minimum point,
Where the line meets the y-axis.

With these three data, you can see how many roots are negative and how many are positive.

tommm
.

Ok this is a better idea.

Reply 8

Actually, if you know what you're doing, you can usually solve these by 'trial and error' in under a minute, and in about a line of working. (If you can't find a 'trial and error' solution in your first minute of looking, by all means find the maximum and minimum points).

Reply 9

ssadi
Show that the equation x^3-12x-7.2=0 has one positive and two negative roots. Obtain the positive root to 3 significant figures using the Newton-Raphson process.
How do i do the blue part. I am clueless.

Know that the cubic equation ax3+bx2+cx+d=0ax^3 + bx^2 + cx + d = 0 has roots α,β,γ\alpha, \beta, \gamma, and that:

α+β+γ=ba[br]βγ+γα+αβ=ca[br]αβγ=da\\\alpha + \beta + \gamma = -\frac{b}{a}[br]\\ \beta\gamma + \gamma\alpha + \alpha\beta = \frac{c}{a}[br]\\ \alpha\beta\gamma = -\frac{d}{a}

By substituting in the coefficients, you can prove the negativity or otherwise of the roots.

Reply 10

Morbo
Know that the cubic equation ax3+bx2+cx+d=0ax^3 + bx^2 + cx + d = 0 has roots α,β,γ\alpha, \beta, \gamma, and that:

α+β+γ=ba[br]βγ+γα+αβ=ca[br]αβγ=da\\\alpha + \beta + \gamma = -\frac{b}{a}[br]\\ \beta\gamma + \gamma\alpha + \alpha\beta = \frac{c}{a}[br]\\ \alpha\beta\gamma = -\frac{d}{a}

By substituting in the coefficients, you can prove the negativity or otherwise of the roots.

That's been removed from most syllabuses, sadly.

Reply 11

generalebriety
That's been removed from most syllabuses, sadly.

I guess polynomials altogether will be removed soon.

Reply 12

Morbo
I guess polynomials altogether will be removed soon.

Yeah, generally the requirement to be good at maths is being slowly phased out of most syllabuses on the grounds of discrimination against people who aren't so good at maths. :smile:

Reply 13

Morbo
I guess polynomials altogether will be removed soon.

So I am not allowed to use your method?

Reply 14

ssadi
So I am not allowed to use your method?

Of course you can, but you should know what you're doing.

Otherwise, I would recommend hykim1's method. Foolproof, really.

Reply 15

Morbo
Of course you can, but you should know what you're doing.

Otherwise, I would recommend hykim1's method. Foolproof, really.

It appeals better to me too.

Reply 16

Original post by hykim1
Instead of trial and error, it might help to sketch the graph, calculating a few key points:

Maximum point,
Minimum point,
Where the line meets the y-axis.

With these three data, you can see how many roots are negative and how many are positive.


Could you explain on how finding these points would show the positive and negative points please?

Reply 17

The max and min are at x=-2 and +2 respectively

f(0)<0

this is enough to show where abouts the roots are