MSc real estate offers from Henley, Cass(Bayes) and Manchester

2

Hello, I am an international student from Asia.
I am looking forward to studying in UK.

I've got offers from those 3 schools that I've mentioned, and yesterday I paid my deposit for the Henley Business School's offer.
I know that Cass and University of Manchester are more known than Henley overall, but I've heard that Henley(Reading) also has well known reputation for their real estate courses and its MSc real estate course is probably one of the top3 courses in UK.

I am a student from Asia and I am concerned that I have made my choice with my limited information that I've collected myself.

So I have a few questions, and it would be nice if you answer these for me.
1) Do you think I have made the right choice?
2) Is henley business school's real estate course well renowned?
3) If you had to make a choice in my situation, which school would you choose?

Reply 1

ppapanastasiou

13

Here are my answers to your questions:

1) Do you think I have made the right choice?
Reading and Henley business school have a good reputation so your choice is OK.
2) Is henley business school's real estate course well renowned?
It has a good reputation.
3) If you had to make a choice in my situation, which school would you choose?

I would go for Bayes Business School (formerly known as Cass). Since it has a better reputation in this area than Reading and Manchester.

Reply 2

sarahmh_

10

For MSc Real Estate I would recommend Henley without a doubt. They have the best reputation for this particular course and are linked with the most firms across the industry. Most people you will meet in the industry would have attended Henley or Oxford Brookes.
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Reply 3

ppapanastasiou

13

Henley is indeed good for real estate but I believe Bayes Business School has a better reputation in that particular field. Other places to consider are also Cambridge and LSE.

Reply 4

sarahmh_

10

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Original post

by ppapanastasiou

Henley is indeed good for real estate but I believe Bayes Business School has a better reputation in that particular field. Other places to consider are also Cambridge and LSE.

I believe that if you're looking for a more comprehensive course on real estate or if you don't have a specialism yet, then Reading is the best bet.

However, if you know you'd like to specialise in something like investment/finance then Bayes, LSE, etc may be good options. As they haven't specified, I'm basing my response on that as well as having graduate recruitment experience in the sector myself.

Reply 5

ppapanastasiou

13

I don't completely disagree with sarahmh_ but I would rank Bayes a bit higher than Henley (only slightly though) when it comes to Real Estate. Bayes has two masters in real estate (MSc in Real Estate and Msc in Real Estate Investment) which are highly regarded. Bayes also overall as a business school is usually higher ranked based on multiple rating criteria.

Reply 6

Crypro888

5

Henley business school, Reading university is the clear leader from everyone I have met in the city. Is ranked no 1 in UK and Europe. Always in top 3 in the world.

Second, would be Cambridge Mphil in real estate finance.

Reply 7

ppapanastasiou

13

I would be very careful with statements such as "Henley business school, Reading university is the clear leader from everyone". Based on what metric? Depending on the metric different "leaders" appear.

For example let's say that we ALL agree that the correct way to rank unis is based on research based on the latest REF results. Even in this ideal scenario no clear conclusion can be reached because even such a clear defined metric can be interpreted in many ways. For example should you rank research conducted at unis based on GPA or research power?

In terms of GPA in research for Business and management studies (where real estate finance research is usually placed) Henley/Reading is not even in the top 10. It ranks at a mere 34th place (See: https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-business-and-management-studies). If you however rank Henley/Reading based on research power (market share) it does slightly better and ranks at 29th place.

Now obviously you can rank Henley/Reading with a different metric or definition. But if you do that you are basically proving my point. There is no universal way to rank unis and that is why statements such as "Henley business school, Reading university is the clear leader from everyone" are very misleading.

Reply 8

Crypro888

5

Problem is the ranking you are using is just based on business. If you look at real estate research they are no 1 in UK and Europe.

When looking at one of these masters programmes in real estate, real estate finance etc then subject ranking at postgrad and reputation in the industry are probably two of the most important metrics. In UK they are dominant and a target university for all main global real estate firms (CBRE, Jones Lang, Savills, Wakefield, etc), real estate developers (Grosvenor etc) and into real estate investment - IB real estate departments / RE private equity. Industry reputation and brand are important.

(edited 3 years ago)

Reply 9

ppapanastasiou

13

Crypro888 as far as I know there is no official REF panel for real estate research (usually it is classified under business and management since real estate teaching and research usually takes place at business schools). You can find all the REF subjects at the following link:
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-subject-rankings. If you have another metric or link where real estate research is broken down please do share it with us.

Now, regarding your point. So basically you are saying that Industry reputation and brand are important. Could not agree more! The issue is however how do you quantify this objectively? You mention that Henley/Reading is a target university for all main global real estate firms (CBRE, Jones Lang, Savills, Wakefield, etc). This is based on what evidence and which metric? You need to backup your arguments with some hard proof (ranking, metric at least something). As W. Edwards Deming once said: "Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion".

For example if I argue that Bayes Business School (formerly known as Cass Business School) is more reputable than Henley/Reading when it comes to real estate how would go about? In terms of research overall and entry standards Bayes seems to be "better" than Henley/Reading. Just check the REF rankings or entry standards of most degrees.

So why should someone agree with you that Henley/Reading is number one in real estate and not for example Bayes or some other uni?

Reply 10

Crypro888

5

Original post

by ppapanastasiou

Crypro888 as far as I know there is no official REF panel for real estate research (usually it is classified under business and management since real estate teaching and research usually takes place at business schools). You can find all the REF subjects at the following link:
https://www.timeshighereducation.com/news/ref-2021-subject-rankings. If you have another metric or link where real estate research is broken down please do share it with us.

Now, regarding your point. So basically you are saying that Industry reputation and brand are important. Could not agree more! The issue is however how do you quantify this objectively? You mention that Henley/Reading is a target university for all main global real estate firms (CBRE, Jones Lang, Savills, Wakefield, etc). This is based on what evidence and which metric? You need to backup your arguments with some hard proof (ranking, metric at least something). As W. Edwards Deming once said: "Without data, you’re just another person with an opinion".

For example if I argue that Bayes Business School (formerly known as Cass Business School) is more reputable than Henley/Reading when it comes to real estate how would go about? In terms of research overall and entry standards Bayes seems to be "better" than Henley/Reading. Just check the REF rankings or entry standards of most degrees.

So why should someone agree with you that Henley/Reading is number one in real estate and not for example Bayes or some other uni?

I do not have time to go into this, but I have friends at all those companies mentioned. I am guessing from your answer that you're relatively new to the industry. Reading MSc grads dominate those firms. Reading grads in real estate have reached top senior positions and recruit directly from those programmes - their real estate department has had a strong position for decades. Cass real eatate courses are much newer in comparison. The same with Cambridge Mphil in real estate finance - but they will trade on their Cambridge brand (especially those looking to go into the highly competitive real estate PE niche) despite alumni stating it was too academic and never had enough practical application.

There is still a reason some Land Economy grads go to Reading for their masters. Despite having an undergrad in Land Economy from Cambridge. I know several that did this. I'd suggest looking at linkedin profiles and you can verify their positions or get a list from Reading university Henley business school - they often publish MSc grads destinations also online.

Reply 11

ppapanastasiou

13

Actually no I am not new to this (much older than you might think) and I also have many friends in the real estate industry. What I have seen is that most senior people are not necessarily Henley/Reading alumni, rather they have quite heterogeneous backgrounds.

Don't get me wrong Henley/Reading is not bad as a uni and surely it has a certain reputation when it comes to real estate. But bold statements such as Henley/Reading is no 1 in UK and Europe are truly difficult to defend; I would be very careful with these kind of statements.

In any case when you state such brave and bold statements please back them up with some "objective" metric and not anecdotal evidence.

Reply 12

Trickster23

1

I've been working in real estate for over 25 years and have been involved with almost every substantial developer, investor, consultant. From my 25 years plus dealing with people at every level up to CEO of various REITs or PLCs or Private equity real estate funds or advisors like CBRE, JLL etc I can echo the thoughts of @Crypro888 above at reply 10. Reading grads dominate the industry and Reading is their main hunting ground for recruits.

Bayes is excellent, but Reading dominates.

Reply 13

hgjluc

1

Original post

by Trickster23

I've been working in real estate for over 25 years and have been involved with almost every substantial developer, investor, consultant. From my 25 years plus dealing with people at every level up to CEO of various REITs or PLCs or Private equity real estate funds or advisors like CBRE, JLL etc I can echo the thoughts of @Crypro888 above at reply 10. Reading grads dominate the industry and Reading is their main hunting ground for recruits.
Bayes is excellent, but Reading dominates.

Hello, I am currently applying to graduate programmes with a focus on real estate. My first choice is LSE. Still looking to apply to backups. Based on your industry experience, would you recommend Bayes or Reading as a second choice? Which one of the two is better for careers in real estate investment? Thanks in advance.

Reply 14

jasonbourne00

1

Original post

by Trickster23

I've been working in real estate for over 25 years and have been involved with almost every substantial developer, investor, consultant. From my 25 years plus dealing with people at every level up to CEO of various REITs or PLCs or Private equity real estate funds or advisors like CBRE, JLL etc I can echo the thoughts of @Crypro888 above at reply 10. Reading grads dominate the industry and Reading is their main hunting ground for recruits.
Bayes is excellent, but Reading dominates.

I think on balance, It depends on what you want to go into. If your aim is the 'big 6' (Savills, CBRE, etc), MRICS route, then Bayes, Reading, and I'm guessing Oxford Brookes probably do well because many of their grads end up working there, and of course, their courses are good.

However, if you have your eye on RE-PE, RE-IB or RE asset management (AM) jobs, then you want to have a 'Target' big name uni on your CV like the courses at LSE, UCL and Cambridge. You can test this theory by looking at current (or even former) analysts at any of London's big real estate AM, PE or IB firms (Blackstone, KKR, BlackRock, Eastdil). You'll be hard pressed to find any Oxford Brookes, Reading or Bayes grads there. Whereas, I don't think any UCL Bartlett, LSE, Manchester, Cambridge grads will struggle to get interviews at the Big 6 property firms.

Out of interest, what do you hear about UCL's RE courses? The Bartlett ranks number one for studies of the built environment globally, which is the closest real estate focused metric out there, but hasn't been mentioned by anyone on this thread.

https://www.topuniversities.com/university-subject-rankings/architecture-built-environment

Reply 15

Nozick12

3

Reading dominates the industry hands down (I work in real estate private equity).

Your undergrad matters also though - if you went to a good RG uni and then Reading you won't have problems with REPE. If you went to a lower ranked uni then Reading will help you get into the good brokers (CBRE etc) but REPE is less likely.

MSc real estate offers from Henley, Cass(Bayes) and Manchester

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