"Poorer white pupils have been let down and neglected"

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username5508856
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Here is the BBC article about it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

I do agree with this. I think in the UK, class is a much bigger divide than race, but people are trying to make race a bigger issue than it is. Yes, there is racism, but I think the class divide causes bigger issues.

I struggle to see how anyone can call white working-class people privileged.
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Johnny ~
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There's a lot of unnecessary culture/race-baiting in the report but the underlying information seems interesting enough. Shame that everything has to be turned into a race issue (or a reaction to a race issue) when the issue is a valid one in its own right. You don't need to play off working class black kids against working class white kids to see which is the most deprived. The BBC summary of the report is a lot better than that of e.g. the Guardian and the FT precisely because it cuts to the findings.
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londonmyst
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Still far too much identity politics and point scoring. :facepalm:

While turning a blind eye to the catastrophic practical implications of continuing down a substantially failing route that has long been chronically bemoaned in many local regions by almost every experienced professional frequently involved in its intimate workings, many youth workers and political opposition party after political opposition party.
Along with a double dose of unrealistically expecting the educational system to be capable of sorting out much of the appalling societal mess that multiple other gov departments, the penal system and public bodies have been unable to effectively manage for decades.
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Wired_1800
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(Original post by Uni_Student321)
Here is the BBC article about it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

I do agree with this. I think in the UK, class is a much bigger divide than race, but people are trying to make race a bigger issue than it is. Yes, there is racism, but I think the class divide causes bigger issues.

I struggle to see how anyone can call white working-class people privileged.
Some people sadly engage in lazy discussions around race, culture and class. They forget to acknowledge or accept the intricacies or intersectionality that exists within society when it comes to race, gender, social class and many other factors. It is the trick of the Tory Government to whip of hatred by pitting communities against each other to ensure they remain in power.

“Privilege is invisible to those who have it”. Don't fall for the trick.
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username5173262
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The BBC might as well change their name to the ABC with the amount of race talk they're pushing. But yeah agreed that class is a big issue in education, and realistically the Pupil Premium doesn't cover much per student, neither does AimHigher or other incentives set up.

Poverty is a big issue in the home structure. If you can't fix a bad home, the student will not be able to do extra work (compared to the better off students). They also may lose hope in school completely, which you see with the "underachievers". Getting a job is much more practically beneficial for poor students, but they aren't told the long term implications of such (limiting career fields, less competitive in technical positions etc). It's a shame really, and those who do continue to A-Levels often face the same issues. It's really unrealistic for the Government to think having access to a laptop or Google makes it easier to learn content at home, and bringing content further down from A-Levels to GCSE and from Degree to A-Levels isn't helping at all. Some people don't even have desks or tables, or access to even simpler needs like breakfasts!

15 year olds don't need to learn about quadratics or trinomials, it's literally useless in real life.

WARNING / TL;DR FOR BELOW
Just a rant on what I think should change based on my subjective experience doing GCSE's.

Spoiler:
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We need to redesign the spec to cover more practical subjects.
Maths should be more financial and statistical rather than the abstract spec it currently is (or taught as).
English is ok, but needs to focus more on realistic essaying and not following basic formulas for getting high grades. Science I have no idea what you'd do with, it's crazily unnecessary to teach students - but still I suppose basic information for many wanting to go into the field... keep as is perhaps, more practicals than exams?
Geography and Humanities I think need more vigour in their application, or at least teachers need resources to reinforce this more. By this I mean Geography needs more statistical and systematic thinking for students, to get them used to research and using numbers in technical jobs rather than essays on waterfalls and rivers. History I can't speak on, but following a more research and self-applied method - i.e. giving students equal resources and websites / books etc, but training them to properly research and apply, could not hurt. Again, I don't know how history is assessed though.
Your non-core subjects like Business, IT, CompSci and the sort need to introduce students into Industry 4.0 - teach them veeery basics on data and how to work / run a business analytically as well as the current introduction to tech. In IT you are told to make a database (which good luck if you make one which fully works) and in CompSci you were told to code a quiz game. I'm not expecting students to become Data Analysts at 15, but surely you can think of something more practical than that which requires the same level of coding practise?

More emphasis on getting deep with Excel, Word and PowerPoint for IT subjects is a must! Many students think they know how to use Word, but yet have never used such basic tools it offers like the ruler, and therefore don't fully understand it's capabilities - and the same with the other programs, especially Excel. These are essential for many jobs today, and quite simply schools are not delivering on this need. Instead they are making students make poorly developed databases and reports on Access - something far too technical and complex for a 14 - 16 year old to grasp the concept of and crystallise that skill. They need to know the basics of Excel before they're being forced to use it to wrap data into a report. IT is one of the most important societal needs in the UK, especially in FinTech which is one of our biggest industries. It should be one of the most important / useful subject a student takes, not a slack of lesson for those who want to mess around on computers but are not good enough / willing to work in CompSci.

I did my GCSE's in 2019. Most of this is a representation of what I personally think is wrong with the spec. I'm sure many will disagree (especially teachers perhaps, their workload needs to be considered too). But hopefully there's some truth in what I said. I think there is especially in the above paragraph/rant. Also I have a go at "schools" a lot, but for the most part I mean the exam boards.

The best subject I did, in terms of how much it changed my life as a kid, was a Level 2 in Financial Education by the LIBF. It was a Level 2 Certificate- and was mandatory for GCSE Business students in my school as an extra boost to our qualifications. It encompassed real financial issues such as personal finance, managerial finance as well as teaching about monetary policy / basic economics and politics. It taught us how to manage our money and build personal budget charts. If you want kids from poor backgrounds to learn how to mobilise themselves socially and financially, you start by giving them this Level 2. Because compared to GCSE's, it's the only subject I can confidently say has allowed me to make better financial and evaluative decisions as a person. It's almost as if the quality of it was just higher than that of a GCSE - for whatever reason, perhaps due to being designed without Michael Goves fat nose being shoved into it. Maybe I'm just reminiscing it with bias, I don't know. Point is, education as it's currently being provided is not adequate for the real world.
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Azagthoa
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Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57567647

As this BBC article explains, no one is saying that you can't have a difficult life if you're white due to your circumstances, it's just you don't have to worry about your skin colour ON TOP of everything else. THAT is white privilege. That is what I teach my pupils in the classroom.

The Tories are just deflecting from their damaging decade of cuts to the education system. Please educate yourselves on the importance of intersectionality of which class is just one of the many intersections.
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ROTL94
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.
Wonder why they feel like that when there are people such as yourself who want to teach kids that they are inherently disadvantaged for the colour of their skin or that they are inherently scummy because of the colour of their skin and where they were born. I wouldn't want any impressionable young mind being taught this gubbins.
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_gcx
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57567647

As this BBC article explains, no one is saying that you can't have a difficult life if you're white due to your circumstances, it's just you don't have to worry about your skin colour ON TOP of everything else. THAT is white privilege. That is what I teach my pupils in the classroom.

The Tories are just deflecting from their damaging decade of cuts to the education system. Please educate yourselves on the importance of intersectionality of which class is just one of the many intersections.
Someone, say, on the streets has more or less no privilege, saying that they have the privilege of not experiencing racism is like trying to put a plaster on a shotgun wound and reads like trying to kick them while they're down. What tangible benefit does being white give when you're struggling to feed your family? (I am sure they would happily take racist abuse over starvation or a descent into drug addiction, too)

The point of this report is that we are treating race as if it is the primary determining factor of privilege. This is demonstrably incorrect. What we see here is a class issue, that can be correlated with race in certain situations, but will eventually level itself out if we have proper provisions for social mobility. Characterising as a race issue is just burying your head in the sand imho.
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P4R90
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57567647

As this BBC article explains, no one is saying that you can't have a difficult life if you're white due to your circumstances, it's just you don't have to worry about your skin colour ON TOP of everything else. THAT is white privilege. That is what I teach my pupils in the classroom.

The Tories are just deflecting from their damaging decade of cuts to the education system. Please educate yourselves on the importance of intersectionality of which class is just one of the many intersections.
Do you not see that by teaching white privilege to students that it is fueling the fire? Imagine telling a 13 year old white boy who lives in poverty that they are privileged...
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_gcx
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(Original post by P4R90)
Do you not see that by teaching white privilege to students that it is fueling the fire? Imagine telling a 13 year old white boy who lives in poverty that they are privileged...
Cue the surprise when you end up raising a generation resentful of other races.
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Chokes
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(Original post by Uni_Student321)
Here is the BBC article about it - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-57558746

I do agree with this. I think in the UK, class is a much bigger divide than race, but people are trying to make race a bigger issue than it is. Yes, there is racism, but I think the class divide causes bigger issues.

I struggle to see how anyone can call white working-class people privileged.
This isn't really something you're supposed to understand to be fair. I will carry on assuming you're white, but the privilege people speak about is the fact that minorities aren't in many places of power, such as Judges, Police, politics, everyday work places, where most of the managers and directors are white. Now it doesn't really matter how much white folk shout they are colour blind, no1 is, we naturally judge people on our differences, even if its a room full of men and then a woman walks in, many are going to look and judge because she's not like them. Even more so with colour it stands out more, now as i mentioned earlier many establishments are white dominated, and people of any race tend to favour their own, either because of racism or prejudice that makes you trust what you're use to or what you've been told is good or bad. The reason why this privilege notion is mentioned so much in England or America is because these countries are European either by years of traced ancestry or by colonisation as in the case with America. So naturally you're going to get cases where people are judged more harshly by law or not included into certain positions because of their skin colour, so if you say for instance compare a poor white against a poor black or asian, then its likely in some circumstances the white will be favoured just because of that fact, but less likely to happen the other way round. The education issue is due to minority parents telling their kids to work harder because were in somebody else's system something that white parents don't need to tell their children, because it is your system.
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CovidMadeMeDoIt
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(Original post by Johnny ~)
There's a lot of unnecessary culture/race-baiting in the report but the underlying information seems interesting enough. Shame that everything has to be turned into a race issue (or a reaction to a race issue) when the issue is a valid one in its own right. You don't need to play off working class black kids against working class white kids to see which is the most deprived. The BBC summary of the report is a lot better than that of e.g. the Guardian and the FT precisely because it cuts to the findings.
Basically summarised my feelings. As a 2rd gen non-White living in the U.K., I feel I have more in common with working class White people than my upper/middle class counterparts who have the “privilege” to come and study in the U.K. and live wherever in the world they want, because their parents will always keep them comfortable. I think intersectionality is more important than single categories (eg race) by itself.
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Chokes
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(Original post by P4R90)
Do you not see that by teaching white privilege to students that it is fueling the fire? Imagine telling a 13 year old white boy who lives in poverty that they are privileged...
I think it depends how you go about it, I would say not to make them feel like they are responsible for it happening in the first place, but to be responsible for their future actions. Some of your ancestors are the reason for this issue, but now white folk of this era are dealing with the after math, the only way we can crush this old mindset is by facing reality, and making people realise from young that we all have responsibility of care towards each other. it wont go away over night its not just about racism, we all have prejudices and sometimes it runs deep, but if were going to state that were civilised then silly minor things such as skin colour which have no bearing on how competent a person is have to be banished from our ignorant understanding. I guess another way you can look at it is, women find it hard to get into positions of power, and are notoriously bad with money but its because women weren't raised to be leaders, innovators or visionaries they were raised to be cleaners and baby makers and men don't respect that, but if we teach our young boys from a young age to respect the brain of a woman and not just what she has up her skirt and we teach women from young that they can be bosses, then were likely to see future generations of women doing more in, and for society. Inclusivity not exclusivity
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P4R90
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(Original post by ROTL94)
Wonder why they feel like that when there are people such as yourself who want to teach kids that they are inherently disadvantaged for the colour of their skin or that they are inherently scummy because of the colour of their skin and where they were born. I wouldn't want any impressionable young mind being taught this gubbins.
Judging by all his previous posts it is clear he has a disliking to white people and their 'privileged lives'.
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ROTL94
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(Original post by P4R90)
Judging by all his previous posts it is clear he has a disliking to white people and their 'privileged lives'.
And it is that that will ensure he continues to be a victim for the rest of his life, not something I want kids to learn.
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username5173262
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(Original post by Azagthoa)
Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57567647

As this BBC article explains, no one is saying that you can't have a difficult life if you're white due to your circumstances, it's just you don't have to worry about your skin colour ON TOP of everything else. THAT is white privilege. That is what I teach my pupils in the classroom.

The Tories are just deflecting from their damaging decade of cuts to the education system. Please educate yourselves on the importance of intersectionality of which class is just one of the many intersections.
Most non-white people don't have to worry about their skin colour in the UK either, for the most part. I feel bad for your pupils, you're not empowering them, you're disadvantaging both whites and non whites by either imposing a guilty or victim train of thought.

The Tories have been much more inclusive than Labour, especially in their cabinets - cutting the overspending of Labour aiding to a war killing thousands of 17 year old "of fighting age" Iraqi boys (as well as their other disastrous borrowing) was something they had to do, not something they wanted to do.

The current Tories are more a threat to checks and balances on the political structure (protests, electoral commission powers etc) than they are anything to do with race directly. I think deeping it to specifically have the lens of disadvantaging non-white people is just virtue signalling and / or race baiting.
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_gcx
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(Original post by Chokes)
I think it depends how you go about it, I would say not to make them feel like they are responsible for it happening in the first place, but to be responsible for their future actions. Some of your ancestors are the reason for this issue, but now white folk of this era are dealing with the after math, the only way we can crush this old mindset is by facing reality, and making people realise from young that we all have responsibility of care towards each other. it wont go away over night its not just about racism, we all have prejudices and sometimes it runs deep, but if were going to state that were civilised then silly minor things such as skin colour which have no bearing on how competent a person is have to be banished from our ignorant understanding. I guess another way you can look at it is, women find it hard to get into positions of power, and are notoriously bad with money but its because women weren't raised to be leaders, innovators or visionaries they were raised to be cleaners and baby makers and men don't respect that, but if we teach our young boys from a young age to respect the brain of a woman and not just what she has up her skirt and we teach women from young that they can be bosses, then were likely to see future generations of women doing more in, and for society. Inclusivity not exclusivity
I agree with the general message of this, but would reject that prejudices (at least due to biological characteristics) are something everyone has.

With the latter, we also need to be careful not to imply that men are somehow predisposed to those behaviours, and teach consent/boundaries more generally to people of any gender.
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P4R90
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(Original post by Chokes)
I think it depends how you go about it, I would say not to make them feel like they are responsible for it happening in the first place, but to be responsible for their future actions. Some of your ancestors are the reason for this issue, but now white folk of this era are dealing with the after math, the only way we can crush this old mindset is by facing reality, and making people realise from young that we all have responsibility of care towards each other. it wont go away over night its not just about racism, we all have prejudices and sometimes it runs deep, but if were going to state that were civilised then silly minor things such as skin colour which have no bearing on how competent a person is have to be banished from our ignorant understanding. I guess another way you can look at it is, women find it hard to get into positions of power, and are notoriously bad with money but its because women weren't raised to be leaders, innovators or visionaries they were raised to be cleaners and baby makers and men don't respect that, but if we teach our young boys from a young age to respect the brain of a woman and not just what she has up her skirt and we teach women from young that they can be bosses, then were likely to see future generations of women doing more in, and for society. Inclusivity not exclusivity
I struggle to comprehend the thought of being held responsible for something my ancestors 'might' have done. I have no idea what my family tree consists of, but I shouldn't be held responsible for something which happened before I was born.

It has the same logic as blaming the 9/11 attacks on Elvis Presley.
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Chokes
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(Original post by _gcx)
I agree with the general message of this, but would reject that prejudices (at least due to biological characteristics) are something everyone has.

With the latter, we also need to be careful not to imply that men are somehow predisposed to those behaviours, and teach consent/boundaries more generally to people of any gender.
Everybody stereotypes people, its just a natural intuition in human nature, we do it to put people into categories. Once we've put people into categories, then automatically we think we know where we'll stand with them, and if its worth talking to them. no1 is guiltless of this because it helps us to quickly associate with people we feel we could connect to better or get something out of them that we can benefit from. If you go somewhere, where there's groups of 2 different races, you're more than likely going to associate with the group of your own colour, unless you've been raised around the other race that you're more use to, hence the term ******s, some of them are just wannabes, but the rest have been raised around mostly black folk, so they feel more comfortable around us. So why are you most likely going to chose your own, because you've already judged the other race as less likely to accept you, but you don't know that, you're just going by your intuition, which isn't always correct.

As for assuming about men, men in powerful positions tend to have this attitude, and you don't know who will become one of these men, so its best to teach a certain mind set across the board, then you're more likely to cover the men who will turn out to be misogynistic. Due to our Testosterone, hormones, genes etc, were naturally more disposed to act like were above women, because were the "provider" which i say loosely because times have changed and women have more freedoms now.
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username5508856
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(Original post by Chokes)
This isn't really something you're supposed to understand to be fair. I will carry on assuming you're white, but the privilege people speak about is the fact that minorities aren't in many places of power, such as Judges, Police, politics, everyday work places, where most of the managers and directors are white. Now it doesn't really matter how much white folk shout they are colour blind, no1 is, we naturally judge people on our differences, even if its a room full of men and then a woman walks in, many are going to look and judge because she's not like them. Even more so with colour it stands out more, now as i mentioned earlier many establishments are white dominated, and people of any race tend to favour their own, either because of racism or prejudice that makes you trust what you're use to or what you've been told is good or bad. The reason why this privilege notion is mentioned so much in England or America is because these countries are European either by years of traced ancestry or by colonisation as in the case with America. So naturally you're going to get cases where people are judged more harshly by law or not included into certain positions because of their skin colour, so if you say for instance compare a poor white against a poor black or asian, then its likely in some circumstances the white will be favoured just because of that fact, but less likely to happen the other way round. The education issue is due to minority parents telling their kids to work harder because were in somebody else's system something that white parents don't need to tell their children, because it is your system.
Well the UK is predominantly white so of course most areas of the UK are predominantly white...

And some of what you said doesn't really apply to what the article is saying. For me, it is clear white working class students are being left behind. Due to the focus on race in recent years and the obsession with box ticking, non-white working class students have had extra support, whether through scholarships or other programmes that are only open to minority groups. This clearly leaves behind white working class students who have as many challenges as the minority groups, but because they aren't a minority race, have been ignored with no one fighting for them.

The focus on race has left a greater divide between the races.
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