"Poorer white pupils have been let down and neglected"

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No one is holding anyone directly responsible for something they didn't do. However, it is a fact that white Britain as a whole benefitted from colonialism and the slave trade and that legacy continues to this day. White people do have to face up to their imperialist legacy and learn what really happened, something I implore my pupils to recognise. Hopefully the UK can follow Germany's lead in providing reparations to the victims of their colonial legacy.

How do you think students are misled about Britain's past? My Irish history course was exceptionally brutal about the realities of Britain's actions. Churchill's racism was not really hidden in my British history course and his racist comments about Ghandhi were given considerable attention. I remember doing quite a lot about the slave trade. I think people's ignorance of these things are due to general historical ignorance as opposed to specific omission of these things in education.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 21

Chokes

Original post by P4R90

I struggle to comprehend the thought of being held responsible for something my ancestors 'might' have done. I have no idea what my family tree consists of, but I shouldn't be held responsible for something which happened before I was born.

It has the same logic as blaming the 9/11 attacks on Elvis Presley.

You misread what i said, i said you shouldn't be responsible for your ancestors, but you should be responsible for the mindset that carries on. You might not be racist or even prejudice against minorities, but children are still being raised ignorant of the struggles skin colour brings when you're the minority and even being raised to hate other races.

Now heres the thing, it would be easier for a white person to tell another white person that being racist or prejudice against minorities is wrong, because when minorities do it, we do it from a place of anger, hence why that teacher or whoever you were debating with sounds like they are blaming white children. I'm not blaming this era white folk, my stance is, white people have more power than minorities to change this mindset for good, so why not teach white children from young about the struggles of other races, so in the future, they are more likely to see different skin in the same respect as their own. You wasn't raised with your parents telling you to watch out for police or work harder than your white counterpart because its harder for you. Ignorance is what is causing this debate, people don't want to accept that privilege exists in everything even pretty against ugly, the pretty person gets the modelling job the ugly doesn't and probably will never, but maybe they're privileged in intellect.

This is not your fault, but you can help to change it, tell me im lying. And if so, it only serves to prove either your ignorance or your true feelings towards race. I mean no offence

Reply 22

username5508856

Original post by Azagthoa

Do not be fooled by that report. White privilege very much exists in the UK and MUST be taught to all school children along with a decolonised curriculum.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/newsbeat-57567647

As this BBC article explains, no one is saying that you can't have a difficult life if you're white due to your circumstances, it's just you don't have to worry about your skin colour ON TOP of everything else. THAT is white privilege. That is what I teach my pupils in the classroom.

The Tories are just deflecting from their damaging decade of cuts to the education system. Please educate yourselves on the importance of intersectionality of which class is just one of the many intersections.

I strongly believe that the idea of "white privilege" is racist. You are applying an idea to a whole race and acting as if it applies to everyone. It is a prejudice, but because it is applying to white people, no one sees it as such.

Also, teaching children these ideas surrounding race is terrible. You are putting racist thoughts into their minds. You are teaching children that there is a difference between races.

How does that help? Does it make them more aware of the world (or one person's viewpoint of the world) or does it teach them at an early age that black and white people are different? Does it teach black people that all white people are bad and racist?

How does that help?

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 23

LawStudent456

Teaching that white privilege exists gives black children an excuse for failure

Children need to be taught that everyone is equal.

Reply 24

lara147

Original post by V℮rsions

Most non-white people don't have to worry about their skin colour in the UK either, for the most part. I feel bad for your pupils, you're not empowering them, you're disadvantaging both whites and non whites by either imposing a guilty or victim train of thought.

The Tories have been much more inclusive than Labour, especially in their cabinets - cutting the overspending of Labour aiding to a war killing thousands of 17 year old "of fighting age" Iraqi boys (as well as their other disastrous borrowing) was something they had to do, not something they wanted to do.

The current Tories are more a threat to checks and balances on the political structure (protests, electoral commission powers etc) than they are anything to do with race directly. I think deeping it to specifically have the lens of disadvantaging non-white people is just virtue signalling and / or race baiting.

I would disagree about not worrying about your skin colour in the UK. Racism here isn’t open or easy to spot it’s almost always covert and you get gaslighted when you do point it out. There are areas within the UK that non-white folk wouldn’t be safe in. I think comparing the issue the OP has explained to racism is damaging because the two issues aren’t the same. White kids struggling in school stems from classism and lack of funding for education. Non-whites battle classism as well and racism. Both issues are important but for a government that said there isn’t structural or any kind of racism in the UK the article itself seems fishy

Reply 25

username5508856

Original post by Azagthoa

Almost every country has done something bad against another country. This is why stupid suggestions ike this will never work and will forever remain stupid.

Where does it end?

Do countries in Africa have to pay because they certainly weren't innocent in the slave trade?

Do black people have to pay for crimes that other black people committed?

Or is it only white majority countries that have to pay, despite the fact it wasn't anyone alive that had anything to do with it?

Reply 26

lara147

Original post by daveymcloughlin

Teaching that white privilege exists gives black children an excuse for failure

Children need to be taught that everyone is equal.

Why would you think that? It teaches children that they must work harder to be whoever they want to be. Plus, most black children are taught this by their parents anyways ask any black child they’ll probably tell you that white privilege exists. Teaching it in schools mean that the whole classroom is aware. Why would you think that it will give anyone an excuse for failure?

Reply 27

parmezanne

Volunteer Team

Original post by Uni_Student321

Yes, there is racism, but I think the class divide causes bigger issues.

I struggle to see how anyone can call white working-class people privileged.

I'd say it's because one issue does not negate the other. you can be poor and not minority ethnic, just like you can be minority ethnic and not poor. or you can be both - this is intersectionality, which means the difficulties add together and can exacerbate one another.

white people of any class might not have privileges which excludes them from facing any kind of disadvantage, but they will be given small advantages like never facing racism on the street or within institutions.

Reply 28

username5508856

Original post by lara147

ask any black child they’ll probably tell you that white privilege exists.

Just because someone says something doesn't mean it is true.

Reply 29

lara147

Original post by Uni_Student321

Just because someone says something doesn't mean it is true.

So your saying white privilege doesn’t exist?

Reply 30

username5508856

Original post by lara147

So your saying white privilege doesn’t exist?

Go tell a white working class child who is living in poverty that they are privileged. I'm sure they will love you for that.

The idea of white privilege is racist. It is terrible to suggest that every white person is at an advantage because they are white. It is wrong to even suggest that.

Yes, racism does exist however racism doesn't advantage every white person and doesn't disadvantage every non-white person.

These stupid terms that people are trying to apply to whole races completely avoid what the real problems in society are.

So I'll answer your question - white privilege isn't real. In fact, the term "white privilege" is racist.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 31

Chokes

Original post by Uni_Student321

Well the UK is predominantly white so of course most areas of the UK are predominantly white...

And some of what you said doesn't really apply to what the article is saying. For me, it is clear white working class students are being left behind. Due to the focus on race in recent years and the obsession with box ticking, non-white working class students have had extra support, whether through scholarships or other programmes that are only open to minority groups. This clearly leaves behind white working class students who have as many challenges as the minority groups, but because they aren't a minority race, have been ignored with no one fighting for them.

The focus on race has left a greater divide between the races.

Agreed, I wasn't referring to the post though, directly the thoughts of privilege. I wont speak on what's going in schools because i have no evidence of teachers helping minorities more. To me it seems the issue is more so to do with what parents are telling their children, which is minorities tell their kids to work harder than their white counterparts because the world is less forgiving for us. As for scholarships, I assumed affirmative action was only in America, but their are definitely black and asian organisation that help us more, but id say they're needed because many of us turn to crime and struggle to fit into certain white dominated work places. If individual teachers are helping minorities more, then Its probably to do with feeling guilty, which they shouldn't, but only education can help this problem.

The focus on race causing a divide is an agenda by the people who tell us the so called facts and lies, to cause this issue. BLM for instance is funded by powerful shadowy white folk, I wonder why, I doubt for liberal reasons. That movement is a sham, you don't educate people by being bias on statistics and shouting at the people you want to help you. Education is through peaceful debates and reasoning is key

Reply 32

_gcx

Study Forum Helper

Original post by lara147

I would tentatively disagree, from my experience it is white people that are more likely to have "woke" views regarding race. (indeed, I have quite entertainingly seen non-white people being lectured by white people on this issue on a few occasions) Tangential example - the whole Latinx fiasco in the US which the majority of Hispanic people rejected, primarily seeing use among non-Hispanic people.

This is obviously not to say that black people with these views don't exist, rather that I don't believe that they form the majority of people. (or at least the ones that don't forming a pretty sizeable minority)

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 33

username5366706

If working class white kids go to the same school as working class brown and black kids they're all getting the same opportunity???? So I don't get how they're being neglected anymore than the rest of the working class???

Reply 34

lara147

Original post by Uni_Student321

Working class white kids are disadvantaged because of CLASSISM. Tories are the reason that white working class kids are disadvantaged because of the decade of austerity in education, housing and youth services, decade of underfunding and cutting in education across the board. ‘White privilege’ didn’t cause 750+ youth services to close down since 2010 it was the Conservative party. They also trebled the tuition fees for university making it inaccessible and impacted white working class children the most. The Conservative party were against feeding the children they also scrapped the education maintenance loan which would’ve provided £30 a week for each poorest children. Teaching children about white privilege isn’t fuelling anything the repercussions of 11 years of damage that tories are responsible for is. That working class white child still has white privileged and doesn’t have to worry about his skin colour ontop of everything. Your using your white privilege to deny the fact that this exists just because it doesn’t favour you as much as other white counterparts.

Reply 35

username5366706

Original post by uni_student321

go tell a white working class child who is living in poverty that they are privileged. I'm sure they will love you for that.

The idea of white privilege is racist. It is terrible to suggest that every white person is at an advantage because they are white. It is wrong to even suggest that.

Yes, racism does exist however racism doesn't advantage every white person and doesn't disadvantage every non-white person.

These stupid terms that people are trying to apply to whole races completely avoid what the real problems in society are.

So i'll answer your question - white privilege isn't real. In fact, the term "white privilege" is racist.

so your telling me that u get random double sometimes triple checks at the airport like me???
Yo u get stopped by police randomly?
You don't know how anything works around here because ur parents weren't from here?
Apply three times as many cvs to get a job?

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 36

LawStudent456

Original post by lara147

So because black parents think it exists it must be real?

Reply 37

lara147

Original post by starinthenight

Last year the BBC published a report where they said that white students from lower economic backgrounds have higher mobility despite their black counterparts outperforming in GCSE/A levels. This article claims the complete opposite

Reply 38

Megxn0

In my opinion, “white privilege” does NOT mean that white people are set for life, can’t be poor and can’t struggle just because they’re white.

How I see it, (one example) white privilege is like how i have never ever been generalized or blamed for things like terrorist attacks or gangs or other violent crimes done by a white person or a group of white people. I have Asian friends that have been. We have all seen attacks on Asian people (some might not even be Muslim, just brown) by someone who has decided that they are responsible for things someone else does. I don’t think anyone can deny that when a crime is committed by an Asian person, the whole Asian community is criticized or labeled, or generalized. The criminal is almost always seen as representative. You simply cannot say that the same thing happens for white people. That, to me, is white privilege.

Another simple example is how Black and Asian politicians are viewed. People like Sadiq Khan, Priti Patel, David Lammy, Zarah Sultan (and many more) are so at the end of racial abuse. Even if it’s not abuse, their skin colour and culture is so often questioned and criticized when it often has nothing to do with what they are talking about and is 10 fold if it is something the person disagrees with. Weather you disagree with their politics or not. For example I’m no fan of Sadiq khan but there are still people who doubt or question his Britishness because he’s brown. Never have I seen a white politician have the same sort of scrutiny.

I think we get sooo defensive (like I use to) when some one hints that we are privileged because of our skin. It sounds ridiculous, because it is. I don’t think the average white working class person has more privilege then a rich or middle class black person. But as per my first example, does have privilege in that sense.

I reckon I have learnt to think more critically about race and identity politics since I grew up with a dad who was literally part of EDL

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 39

Chokes

Original post by Uni_Student321

Naturally there are rich black people who are better off than poor white people, but that's the extremes, if you compare a poor white child to a poor black or Asian child, the poor white one is more likely to get a job, and in certain establishments is more likely to receive a lighter sentence by law. The likelihood of this happening is slowly being diminished, but its still there.

Just as in south Africa now, where its switched from apartheid rule and now being black means you have a better chance than a white person, so there its black privilege, buts its expected because its black land. A black or asian person in England/America is going to have to prove in some circumstances that they're not the typical ignorant minorities you see stabbing and shooting each other, or just accept that they wont get the job because the person is legitimately racist.

Privilege stems into everything, even pretty and ugly, where the pretty are more likely to get a cushy modelling job, whereas the ugly will never get that. Or even more the pretty woman will find a rich husband to look after them, but the ugly woman will not. Now this is something thats harder to change because you attracted to what your attracted to, but judging someone on their skin colour should be easier because all you need to do is teach people not to associate skin colour with barriers such as violence, stupidity, ignorance, or not relatable.