The Student Room Group

Medicine Grad Entry with positive disclosure on DBS?

I've just graduated with my bachelors and want to study Medicine. Issue is, I was investigated for, but not charged with, illegal images of under 18s.

The key part here is that the person in the images was 17 years old, almost 18, and we had been chatting in Tinder. She sent me a suggestive (not naked) images and then threatened me with legal action for receiving it when I wouldn't go on a date with her.
Me being a dumbass, I decided to go to the police myself and explain what had happened, not knowing that what she had sent me was illegal but also wanting to be completely transparent about the fact that I hadn't asked for the image.

They launched an investigation into me that was No Further Actioned in my final year of Uni. I had already booked to sit GAMSAT but I know that this will more than likely be brought up in the Enhanced DBS if I somehow get offered a place.

Because the crime would have been involving a "child", is there any point in me even sitting the GAMSAT and applying? Am I likely to be have an offer withdrawn due to the disclosure on the DBS?

I'm aware of how competitive Medicine is and i don't want to waste my time or anyone else's time if my criminal record makes me unsuitable to study medicine.
Hiya can I just say you asked for whatever you asked for before u found out what age she was...when u found out u went straight to police that's amazing compare to other lads 👍 not 1 police officer will stand a chance in court it won't get that far it'll be embarrassing for law that's ment to see who's write and who is wrong ur 100% doing write thing u will learn urself in this investigation how low the law will go..u will walk out smiling trust me
Original post by Bob Unsure
I've just graduated with my bachelors and want to study Medicine. Issue is, I was investigated for, but not charged with, illegal images of under 18s.

The key part here is that the person in the images was 17 years old, almost 18, and we had been chatting in Tinder. She sent me a suggestive (not naked) images and then threatened me with legal action for receiving it when I wouldn't go on a date with her.
Me being a dumbass, I decided to go to the police myself and explain what had happened, not knowing that what she had sent me was illegal but also wanting to be completely transparent about the fact that I hadn't asked for the image.

They launched an investigation into me that was No Further Actioned in my final year of Uni. I had already booked to sit GAMSAT but I know that this will more than likely be brought up in the Enhanced DBS if I somehow get offered a place.

Because the crime would have been involving a "child", is there any point in me even sitting the GAMSAT and applying? Am I likely to be have an offer withdrawn due to the disclosure on the DBS?

I'm aware of how competitive Medicine is and i don't want to waste my time or anyone else's time if my criminal record makes me unsuitable to study medicine.

What makes you think there’ll be a disclosure on your Enhanced DBS check?

It probably won’t make much of a difference but were you ever arrested or interviewed under caution? Also, how long did the investigation take?

An enhanced DBS check shows any convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings. None of these apply to you.

The final thing it includes is potentially “police intelligence”, which is information the police deem relevant, truthful and proportional. The fact that you weren’t even charged with a crime, makes it less likely something will be included however even though they decided on No Further Action, it is still possible. Nonetheless the police have to follow Statutory Disclose Guidance and a decision-making framework (called the Quality Assurance Framework) justifying their reasoning at each stage of the process. They’re also limited in what they can say and how they say it as they also need to follow a template when disclosing information. Sometimes they may contact you before deciding to make a disclosure and give you a chance to make representations as to why no disclosure should be made, however they don’t always need to do this (which why I asked you the earlier questions about the investigation).

For doctors/med students an enhanced DBS check will be done alongside a check that you’re not on the Barred lists for working with children or vulnerable adults. It’s unlikely you’ll be included on either list and you usually should be informed beforehand of an intention to include you so you can make representations to prevent that. However it is possible for you to be added because the threshold for inclusion is the civil standard of proof, not the criminal standard which is required for a conviction.

Assuming what you’ve said is comprehensive and true, I would speculate that it’s unlikely anything would come up on your enhanced DBS check. However I am no expert and nothing I’ve said is legal advice. I would recommend you speak to a solicitor, particularly one that specialises in this area, including appealing DBS disclosures for professionals including doctors. They will be able to advise you on the likelihood of running into issues and will be able to support you if you do.

Based on my knowledge of medical admissions, I think it’s very likely you have as good a chance as anyone else and even if something is disclosed on your DBS check, I think it’s likely you’ll be able to overcome it given the circumstances. I strongly recommend you sit the GAMSAT and continue to apply. I don’t think you’ll even be asked about being subject to any criminal investigation, only if you have convictions or cautions etc (and probably excluding minor driving offences). Obviously you should be truthful in your applications and answer what they ask for.
(edited 2 years ago)
Reply 3
Original post by Corporate Lawyer
What makes you think there’ll be a disclosure on your Enhanced DBS check?

It probably won’t make much of a difference but were you ever arrested or interviewed under caution? Also, how long did the investigation take?

An enhanced DBS check shows any convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings. None of these apply to you.

The final thing it includes is potentially “police intelligence”, which is information the police deem relevant, truthful and proportional. The fact that you weren’t even charged with a crime, makes it less likely something will be included however even though they decided on No Further Action, it is still possible. Nonetheless the police have to follow Statutory Disclose Guidance and a decision-making framework (called the Quality Assurance Framework) justifying their reasoning at each stage of the process. They’re also limited in what they can say and how they say it as they also need to follow a template when disclosing information. Sometimes they may contact you before deciding to make a disclosure and give you a chance to make representations as to why no disclosure should be made, however they don’t always need to do this (which why I asked you the earlier questions about the investigation).

For doctors/med students an enhanced DBS check will be done alongside a check that you’re not on the Barred lists for working with children or vulnerable adults. It’s unlikely you’ll be included on either list and you usually should be informed beforehand of an intention to include you so you can make representations to prevent that. However it is possible for you to be added because the threshold for inclusion is the civil standard of proof, not the criminal standard which is required for a conviction.

Assuming what you’ve said is comprehensive and true, I would speculate that it’s unlikely anything would come up on your enhanced DBS check. However I am no expert and nothing I’ve said is legal advice. I would recommend you speak to a solicitor, particularly one that specialises in this area, including appealing DBS disclosures for professionals including doctors. They will be able to advise you on the likelihood of running into issues and will be able to support you if you do.

Based on my knowledge of medical admissions, I think it’s very likely you have as good a chance as anyone else and even if something is disclosed on your DBS check, I think it’s likely you’ll be able to overcome it given the circumstances. I strongly recommend you sit the GAMSAT and continue to apply. I don’t think you’ll even be asked about being subject to any criminal investigation, only if you have convictions or cautions etc (and probably excluding minor driving offences). Obviously you should be truthful in your applications and answer what they ask for.

First of all, thank you very much for the detailed reply, very much appreciated.

The investigation was opened and closed in two days. I was not arrested or interviewed under caution. They said that should new evidence come to light or any further victims(s) come forward they will reopen the investigation. This was in April.

Yeah, I did think that they may have chosen to include me on the children and v adults barred list- is there any way I can find this out before I go through the whole GAMSAT application? Not sure there is any point on going through it all only to get told I'm barred from working in those sorts of roles.
Reply 4
Original post by Bob Unsure
First of all, thank you very much for the detailed reply, very much appreciated.

The investigation was opened and closed in two days. I was not arrested or interviewed under caution. They said that should new evidence come to light or any further victims(s) come forward they will reopen the investigation. This was in April.

Yeah, I did think that they may have chosen to include me on the children and v adults barred list- is there any way I can find this out before I go through the whole GAMSAT application? Not sure there is any point on going through it all only to get told I'm barred from working in those sorts of roles.

You can put in a Subject Access Request
https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/police-records/
Reply 5
Original post by GANFYD
You can put in a Subject Access Request
https://hub.unlock.org.uk/knowledgebase/police-records/

Not sure if this will tell me if I have been placed on the barred list- don't suppose you know?
Reply 6
Original post by Bob Unsure
Not sure if this will tell me if I have been placed on the barred list- don't suppose you know?

Your issue is going to be the part of a DBS where the Police can freehand mention anything they think is relevant (cannot remember how they describe it), and that is just down to the judgement of whoever is in charge, so I am not sure you can know without completing a DBS, but the SAR will at least give you a feel for what is recorded (as it is likely to be that they make their judgement on)

EDIT: Just checked with a Cyber Security expert who investigates this type of thing. Says if you come into contact with "child pornography" you commit an offence, even if it is unknowing. There is a defence that you have reported the event as soon as reasonably practicable and state you came into contact with the image, it was unintentional, you did not seek it out and you minimised your contact with it. They therefore think you have fulfilled your obligation under this Act and should exculpate you of the crime using this defence. They has come into contact with these sort of images via work at times, and have acted in this way and has passed the highest level of Security Clearance.
It is also a reasonable assumption that anybody on Tinder is over 18, as they have signed to confirm this in the T&Cs, so unless they declared to you they were under age (or clearly appeared underage, eg prepubescent) then you could not have been expected to know, and I would be pretty sure this has been taken into account.
An SAR then allows you to see what is written and, if needed, ask for addendums to be added, if it is needed to make things clearer. I suspect this would not be an issue, however, I am not a lawyer or expert in this area
(edited 2 years ago)
Reply 7
Original post by GANFYD
Your issue is going to be the part of a DBS where the Police can freehand mention anything they think is relevant (cannot remember how they describe it), and that is just down to the judgement of whoever is in charge, so I am not sure you can know without completing a DBS, but the SAR will at least give you a feel for what is recorded (as it is likely to be that they make their judgement on)

EDIT: Just checked with a Cyber Security expert who investigates this type of thing. Says if you come into contact with "child pornography" you commit an offence, even if it is unknowing. There is a defence that you have reported the event as soon as reasonably practicable and state you came into contact with the image, it was unintentional, you did not seek it out and you minimised your contact with it. They therefore think you have fulfilled your obligation under this Act and should exculpate you of the crime using this defence. They has come into contact with these sort of images via work at times, and have acted in this way and has passed the highest level of Security Clearance.
It is also a reasonable assumption that anybody on Tinder is over 18, as they have signed to confirm this in the T&Cs, so unless they declared to you they were under age (or clearly appeared underage, eg prepubescent) then you could not have been expected to know, and I would be pretty sure this has been taken into account.
An SAR then allows you to see what is written and, if needed, ask for addendums to be added, if it is needed to make things clearer. I suspect this would not be an issue, however, I am not a lawyer or expert in this area

Yeah, the general consensus seems to be that I am likely to be added to the children's barred list, or at the very least added to the police's "watch list", due to the nature of what I was involved in. I had already paid for my GAMSAT, although I will be unable to get a refund due to it being within my control that I am not longer suitable to study Medicine. As it is I already cannot travel to the USA or Canada due to this.

I'm hoping that there may be someone who has some greater insight into this process.
Reply 8
Original post by Bob Unsure
Yeah, the general consensus seems to be that I am likely to be added to the children's barred list, or at the very least added to the police's "watch list", due to the nature of what I was involved in. I had already paid for my GAMSAT, although I will be unable to get a refund due to it being within my control that I am not longer suitable to study Medicine. As it is I already cannot travel to the USA or Canada due to this.

I'm hoping that there may be someone who has some greater insight into this process.

Do you have the posts that this was sent to you unsolicitied? If so, it is evidence that you viewed this accidentally/outside your control and you have the accepted defence of having declared it as soon as practicable. So, if what you have said is the whole story, this would be grossly unfair and should be challenged, as otherwise, anybody can have anybody arrested/struck off/banned by sending them illegal images and there is no recourse to avoid this, which is clearly ridiculous. If the police have given you no convictions, cautions, reprimands and warnings, then there seems to be no reason for you to be disallowed from doing anything. If you requested images (or agreed to them being sent in advance) then that is a different matter, so you probably need specialist legal advice about this, not anonymously on TSR

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