Financial sector summer internships

risk management?

Thanks for your answer! If you wouldn't mind me asking, what does that broadly entail?

google risk management at an investment bank, its a middle-office position and as such I'm not too familiar with the day-to-day of it. If you like maths and statistics proprietary/quant trading might seem very interesting and very well compensated but your success in getting into a good prop shop like Optiver/Citsec will be dependent on the university you attend and how you perform in online assessments (mental maths) and interviews. Though as you're not studying STEM not many shops will take you anyway, I only know of Jane Street which take on non-standard degrees but they're one of the top shops out there and very competitive.

Is it really that big of a problem not to be studying a traditional STEM subject? Econ & Econometric degrees are almost completely maths based.

For typical investment banking the degree is completely irrelevant and only the actual university name matters, quant/prop varies from institution. Some shops p much only look at maths students from Oxbridge like 5R/Akuna, companies like Jane Street may be more open as long as you perform well in their processes. Many shops do tend to reject people through CV screens so its possible it may not be a palatable degree since most that go into quant trading tend to straight maths/engineering/physics/cs etc. University will be a huge factor for many companies as they screen CVs though. Risk management might be more doable.

Oh, okay! Thanks for your detailed input. I had a quick look at which firms may have risk management internships and only JPM popped up as of now. Do all major IBs tend to offer this; is it too early to look

yeah I'm pretty sure all major investment banks will have a risk department as a part of their middle office, its quite essential. Look at the bulge brackets/EBs and middle market firms and see what internships/grad roles they offer as a part of risk. As i said before, its not front office which is what most are into so it might be a little harder to get info.

Have you considered actually doing economic research? Instead of going into finance? There's plenty of maths and stats there.

Have you considered the credit/fixed income side of asset management/research which is much more mathematical based? This kind of ties in with what Levi said since generally risk management refers to either market risk or credit risk. Credit risk is a different job to credit research or credit AM tho.

Have you considered pursuing quantitative roles? You may have to do further studies in more STEM-y degrees to properly pursue this though.

Hi! Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I've considered doing economic research, which also seems to be quite interesting. I'm planning on also applying to the civil service schemes! Although, I'm not sure which other places do economics placements? I'm planning on applying to both!

Yeah, I looked at quant roles, but as you said, they do quite often require Masters or PhD levels.

I'm not really sure if there are many summer internships which are so specialised to look at exactly credit risk management, but it sounds interesting, so maybe for a graduate role!

Hey,

I just wanted to get some advice on what route I should go down for my summer internship applications. Asset management seems to be really dull to me, I don't have an interest in the stock market so ideally don't want to be handling things like that - I wasn't interested in it when I did my shadowing experience either.

My main interests lie within statistics and mathematics, as I'm studying an Economics and Econometrics degree. What's best for me to apply for?

Thank you!

Hi, I just wanted to add that Credit Risk is not just restricted to IBs like JP Morgan, there are also roles in companies like VISA or AMEX. The skills you need are SQL coding, excel and a bit of python for data analysis, so I'd say it's a good role you could apply to. They are also much less competitive than IBs.

Hi! Thanks for your reply. Yeah, I've considered doing economic research, which also seems to be quite interesting. I'm planning on also applying to the civil service schemes! Although, I'm not sure which other places do economics placements? I'm planning on applying to both!

Yeah, I looked at quant roles, but as you said, they do quite often require Masters or PhD levels.

I'm not really sure if there are many summer internships which are so specialised to look at exactly credit risk management, but it sounds interesting, so maybe for a graduate role!

You could always look into economic consulting, it's a sort of blend of economics and strategy consulting. Starting salaries out of undergrad are typically >40k at most decent firms so not IB level but it's definitely more interesting than sitting on excel and PowerPoint worrying about fonts and font sizes all day. They covert econometrics skills and you get to travel a lot, personally I've found the work more interesting than MBB as the strategy work isn't particularly interesting at these firms when you're interested in Econ. I've been in both MBB and EC, the pay is higher in MBB but I prefer the work in EC personally.

I'm not sure what year you're in at uni but if you're looking for placement year opportunities, the economic consulting firms that do them are capital Economics, Oxford Economics, Frontier Economics, Oxera, Fathom Consulting, FTI Consulting and big4 Econ consulting teams. For graduate entry there's the above firms plus the better firms like RBB Economics, Brattle, Compass Lexicon, NERA, Vivid Economics, Cambridge Econometrics, CEBR, Analysis Group, Cornerstone Research, CRA and others.

Personally I'd say Econ consulting is a lot more niche than most the industries mentioned, you get a different sort of person applying and often people do MSc Economics courses before starting or whilst working so is very different to stuff like IBD, S&T, Management Consulting, Strategy Consulting.

There are a couple of macro consultancies that focus on forecasting and writing macro research reports but most are micro focused and cover areas like competition economics (mergers, market power, preditory pricing etc) in all industries, impact assessments, CBA Analysis, market sizing, etc. It's not everyone's cup of tea but can be very lucrative and interesting if you're still interested in Economics and Econometrics and don't want to be an ibd spreadsheet monkey with bags under your eyes (not hating haha).

Personally I'm more interested in the macro consulting and forecasting work but have done the microeconomics consulting stuff in the past, the micro work is more interesting than it sounds and is good if you like econometrics and coding whilst still being an economist rather than a data scientist. EC is an industry that's worth at least considering anyway before rushing into the general IB recruiting that myself and many others did/do straight away. The exit opportunities depend on the macro or micro focus really. Macro consulting exit opportunities are other macro consulting firms, Econ research at IB's, the BoE, HMT, economist at AM's/IM's, and hedge funds are possible but it's not a walk in the park. Micro exit opps is more limited to strategy consulting, management consulting and other economic consulting firms. I'd say both areas have weaker exit opps than places like IB, it's difficult but not impossible to go to a HF, private equity is pretty much off the cards.

40k starting salary is still super good!! It completely slipped my mind that these places existed, thank you for your reply. Tbh, my interests are really within economics, like that's what I enjoy. I'm going into my second year, so I'm looking for a summer 2022 internship, do these firms offer it?

Although, I am apprehensive, because in my first year, whilst I did get a 2.1 64% over all, im very unhappy with my 53% in Microeconomics (test was negatively marked and multiple choice). Would this not be a hindrance?

Also I don't know how to tailor CVs for places like that, I've spent so long making a one page CV, is this not something I can keep using?

I'd really like to learn more about this! It sounds so interesting

Yeah 40k base salary plus a bonus is certainly great compared to most jobs. My IB starting comp was higher but yeah there are far worst salaries than Econ consulting that's for sure. If you still happen to be more interested in economics than banking/finance when you're applying for summer internships or placement years (if your uni offers them) then there a fair few places to apply to. The Bank of England and government economic service offer both internships and placement years in the public sector. My previous post mentioned which EC's offer placement years and all EC's offer summer internships for people in their 2nd and 3rd years.

I don't think a low introductory micro results will be a big issue. As long as you're averaging at least a 2.1, go to a uni with a strong Econ department you'll probably be fine. They focus more on maths results and how well you perform in their tests and interviews tbh. It's still very competitive but it's a little niche so is definitely less competitive than banking and other types of consulting. They definitely do like candidates with an interest in micro and econometrics so I'd try and emphasize this in your application if you apply - obviously if you apply to the macro focused firms/organisations then emphasize this area.

I tended not to tailor or change my CV very much at all, it's more the cover letters where you change it depending on the firm. One advantage is that basically nobody will have done work experience in economic consulting so it's fairly a level playing field as there isn't really any 6th form schemes or spring weeks unlike in banking. Happy to answer any questions you have either here or via a PM/DM.

Thank you so much for your help! Could we keep the conversation going on the thread? It's just that I shared the thread with one of my friends who may be interested in this too, so it's easier for him to follow as well.

I go to the University of York, which as far as I know, has had an Economics department since its foundation, and in the Shanghai international rankings ranks the department 51-75 in the world. Would this be good enough to be a competitive candidate for these economics firms?

So I should look at the Bank of England, and civil service for internships? What about the other firms you mentioned prior, do they also do summer internships for second years?

What may one put down on a CV to be a competitive candidate? For example, I'm a trustee on the finance committee, and a committee member of the econ society at my university, would that heighten my prospects?

Thanks again!