Do you have any questions about vaccines or how they work? AMA!

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Poll: Do you think society has a good enough understanding of how vaccines work?
Yes, there is a good level of understanding (8)
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No, there is a lack of understanding (25)
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TSR Talks- UEL
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We will be discussing how new vaccines are developed and trialled as well as the implications and challenges of getting the vaccines out into the wider population as quickly as possible- we want to hear your thoughts and answer any questions you may have!

With the rollout of multiple effective SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) vaccines we now have a very powerful set of tools to help combat the pandemic. The novel technologies used in these vaccines has sparked a great deal of interest within the general public and is paving the way for a new generation of vaccines that will target not just COVID-19 but a variety of other infectious diseases.

However, the speed of vaccine development has been one of the main discussion points around hesitancy to receive a vaccine.

What would you like to understand about how vaccines are discovered, developed, and implemented?
Does society have a good enough understanding of the process? How can we increase the understanding?

Recently, the government has explored the use of “Vaccine Passports” to allow venues and organisations to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them to use vaccination as a requirement for entry or participation.

Is this an act against civil liberty, or is this a valid incentive to get the remaining population fully vaccinated?
Do you think that students should be required to be vaccinated to be on campus?

We'll be online for the next two weeks and look forward to hearing what you think. Our bios are below so if you have any specific questions for us we are more than happy to answer.

Moderation note: This has now been moved to the Debate and Current affairs section - please keep debate on topic

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Professor Sally Cutler is a Professor in Medical Microbiology. Her background in Medical Microbiology has been invaluable during the COVID-19 pandemic where she has contributed scientific advise to the Government during their calls for expert comments. She has also been instrumental in helping in the establishment and running of an asymptomatic testing centre at the University and serves on our Infection Control group to ensure we run our campus as safely as possible during the pandemic.

Dr. David B. Guiliano is Head of the Department of Bioscience. His research background spans a variety of topics in microbiology, parasitology and immunology with specific focus on the application of novel or emerging technologies in the development of intervention strategies for infectious diseases. This includes the development of novel vaccines and vaccine delivery methods such as those recently utilized during the current SARS-CoV-2 (COVID-19) pandemic.

Dr Matthew Almond is Head of the Department of Allied and Public Health Professions at the University of East London. He has worked with the public sector as well as private sector companies across the UK. Work during this time specialised in consultancy, design, delivery and evaluation of interventions to improve health predominantly in three areas; early years, the workplace and with older adults. His interest in this work continues most recently in the area of Healthy Longevity.
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04MR17
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I think the majority of the population either no enough, or have apathy on the subject. It just so happens that the voices of those who are concerned or afraid of the vaccine are very loud and therefore amplifies a proportion of the population that are actually rather small.
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Joleee
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no, of course not. i mean, does most of society understand how headache medicine or morphine works and is produced? nah:iiam:

not really sure what to suggest tho. understanding comes from experience, not literature, cuz a) there's too much literature and who has time to study stuff that's also probably above your head, and b) understanding of health comes from seeing results - not reading stuff, and in this case especially if you have no medical or healthcare background. so, you could *in theory* put up another website of information but all it will be is the zillionth website on Covid. sorry if that wasn't helpful
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Anonymous #1
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As I understand it currently, our vaccines significantly reduce the symptoms of Covid so it's no longer a threat to life, however don't stop your from spreading / catching it?

So by which case, I don't understand how getting vaccinated is helping to preventing new variants from developing?
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TSR Talks- UEL
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(Original post by Anonymous)
As I understand it currently, our vaccines significantly reduce the symptoms of Covid so it's no longer a threat to life, however don't stop your from spreading / catching it?

So by which case, I don't understand how getting vaccinated is helping to preventing new variants from developing?
Good question. However, there is a growing body of evidence showing that those who have been vaccinated but become infected with Covid-19 are less likely to pass the virus on to contacts. There was a recent study published by PHE that indicates that the reduction in transmission could be between 40-50%. This is likely due to the fact that vaccinated people who do experience breakthrough infections will have reduced virus in their nose. However this point is still being explored.

In terms of the development of new variants the higher the transmission rates of the virus the more likely it is variants will emerge. If global vaccination programs can bring the transmission rate to a low enough level this should help reduce the emergence of new variants.

Effect of Vaccination on Household Transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in England
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8262621/


Dr. David B. Guiliano
Head of the Department of Bioscience
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by TSR Talks- UEL)
Recently, the government has explored the use of “Vaccine Passports” to allow venues and organisations to identify those who have been vaccinated, allowing them to use vaccination as a requirement for entry or participation.

Is this an act against civil liberty, or is this a valid incentive to get the remaining population fully vaccinated?
It's possibly the most ridiculous notion that has appeared throughout the entire pandemic.

We are after all talking about vaccines that:

~ Do NOT prevent a person getting Covid
~ Do NOT prevent a person getting symptoms
~ Do NOT prevent a person transmitting the virus to otehrs
~ Do NOT bestow sterilising immunity

The vaccines might lessen some of the above but the don't stop them.

On this basis ANY vaccinated individual could easily be a carrier of the disease and thus a spreader of it.

Thus the notion that we should consider waiving vaccinated people through into venues is as absurd and dangerous as it gets.

Add to this the fact that any vaccine passporting is horrifically discriminatory, akin to banning black people from going to venues.

That's because there exist :

~ People who have already recovered from Covid and thus have natural immunity. These people are safer than the vaccinated imo

~ People who don't have a current Covid infection. Such people can not possibly harm others whether vaccinated or not

~ People who for medical reasons are unable to take the vaccines

Vaccine passporting would discriminate against such people and thus is an absurd and preposterous idea that should be vehemently opposed.

It's nothing more than Communist/Totalitarian assault on liberties and forced vaccinations through attrition.

There's no place for such nonsense in a free democracy.
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by TSR Talks- UEL)
Does society have a good enough understanding of the process? How can we increase the understanding?
Primarily, to increase understanding in the public you have to first stop the utterly ridiculous and counter-productive campaigns of information censorship and the lame labeling of anyone that challenges the status quo as a "conspiracy theorist" or "anti-vaxxer".

Unless and until there exists free open debate on the related issues then public understanding will remain poor. The more Pharma & Co silence people, the more people believe there is something badly wrong and that they need to be extremely sceptical.
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04MR17
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I wonder if it might be helpful (for the continuation of the discussion in a healthy manner) for TSR Talks- UEL to remind us all what vaccines do in general terms. In the history of medicine I've never known a vaccine that can put a full stop to a virus. Only one that reduces chances of it. Might be good to have those fundamental principles agreed upon before conversation proceeds
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by TSR Talks- UEL)
Good question. However, there is a growing body of evidence showing that those who have been vaccinated but become infected with Covid-19 are less likely to pass the virus on to contacts.
Less likely, but they still CAN and still DO in significant numbers. So vaccination alone was never ever going to get us out of the pandemic. They're the wrong kind of "vaccines" for that since they don't bestow sterilising immunity. On the other hand natural immunity gained from getting Covid and recovering clearly means that such people are far less likely to become re-infected and less likely to get symptoms that could be spread to others. It amazes me how natural immunity is being played down.



(Original post by TSR Talks- UEL)
There was a recent study published by PHE that indicates that the reduction in transmission could be between 40-50%. This is likely due to the fact that vaccinated people who do experience breakthrough infections will have reduced virus in their nose. However this point is still being explored.
There has also been a recent report from PHE that shows that :

~ proportionately more vaccinated people are dying from the Delta variant than the unvaccinated
~ proportionately more vaccinated people are being hospitalised by the Delta variant than the unvaccinated

https://assets.publishing.service.go...riefing_17.pdf
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BurstingBubbles
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EDIT:

Moderation note: This has now been moved to the Debate and Current affairs section - please keep debate on topic
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by BurstingBubbles)
Moderation note: Please note that this thread is not for the debate of vaccines but for asking questions. Any debate should take place in the Debate and Current Affairs forum. Thank you.
Just to point out, the OP themselves have posed at least 3 questions to readers in the opening post. Are you asking us not to respond to those questions and ignore them?
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PilgrimOfTruth
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Question for the OP

As I understand it, the original scientific thinking in relation to SARS-COV-2 virus was that it was the virus itself that caused the harm and damage to humans. The spike protein surrounding the virus was thought to be harmless such as stated in this link:

How the mRNA Vaccine Works
https://coronavirus.utah.gov/how-the...vaccine-works/

"In the case of COVID-19, mRNA vaccines, when injected, give instructions to our cells to make the “spike protein.” The spike protein is a harmless piece of the virus, and in this case it’s found on the surface of the virus that causes COVID-19"


However science has moved on and a study by the well respected SALK INSTITUTE has discovered that in fact the spike protein is deadly to human health.

The novel coronavirus’ spike protein plays additional key role in illness
https://www.salk.edu/news-release/th...le-in-illness/

"In the new study, the researchers created a “pseudovirus” that was surrounded by SARS-CoV-2 classic crown of spike proteins, but did not contain any actual virus. Exposure to this pseudovirus resulted in damage to the lungs and arteries of an animal model—proving that the spike protein alone was enough to cause disease. Tissue samples showed inflammation in endothelial cells lining the pulmonary artery walls."


Given this startling new information from the Salk Study can I ask you if you think there could now be dangers in how the mRNA vaccines have been developed and how they operate since clearly they instruct the human body to create that spike protein and the spike protein is now known to be deadly.
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Does mixing vaccines (e.g. Pfizer and Moderna) change anything to do with effectiveness?
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BurstingBubbles
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Just to point out, the OP themselves have posed at least 3 questions to readers in the opening post. Are you asking us not to respond to those questions and ignore them?
I believe that these were ideas of questions or to get users thinking about questions for the OP/general conversation rather than to start debate. But I'll tag in Pink Unicorn who may be able to clarify
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BurstingBubbles
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Does mixing vaccines (e.g. Pfizer and Moderna) change anything to do with effectiveness?
Ooh I'd like to know this too. Also if mixing two different types of vaccine e.g. mRNA and dead virus type vaccines is okay/effective
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PilgrimOfTruth
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Another question for OP

Do you think that people administering the jabs should be using the technique known as "Aspiration"?

For readers, aspiration is the method used whereby the injection needle is inserted into your arm and then the syringe is
pulled back to see if any blood is drawn into the syringe (which would indicate that a vein had been hit). If so the needle is removed and the whole process is begun again.

I ask the question because I am extremely concerned about the mRNA vaccine contents ending up in the bloodstream instead of staying at the injection site in the arm muscle. The whole idea and theory of these vaccines is that they stay at the injection site just long enough for the body to recognise the pathogen and respond to it and then the mRNA dissipates. I can't imagine what would happen if the injection hit a vein and the vaccine contents got into the bloodstream and then started instructing the body to create that spike protein.

Should it not be compulsory to use the technique of Aspiration to mitigate this risk?
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Lord_Pharoah
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What are the human rights implications of coercing a whole population into an experimental treatment through threats and intimidation? Surely restricting travel based on this would be a violation of the Nuremberg Code, not that any western government gives a **** anymore...

Pfizer was fined $2.6bn in 2009 for 'bribing doctors and suppressing adverse effects and trial results' from a drug it developed and all executives avoided jail time: https://www.nytimes.com/2009/09/03/b.../03health.html
I'm sure they learned their lesson - although the vaccine delivery contract includes a clause preventing the release of death and injury figures for 10 years.

AstraZeneca was fined $520m for selling antipsychotics without FDA approval to children and the elderly: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Heal...ry?id=10488647
An extra $5m for bribing doctors on top: https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/a...tors-lxjfm3pzm

Finally J&J was fined $2.2bn in 2013 to 'resolve criminal liability arising from the promotion of' prescription drugs with dangerous side effects for purposes not approved as safe by the FDA, as well as paying doctors and pharmacies 'kickbacks' for promoting the drugs: https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/johns...investigations

These companies are completely immune from liability if you are paralysed, stroke out, have a seizure, or suffer permanent shortness of breath, insomnia, or headache, of which there are many anecdotal stories (figures for these 'minor' side effects are not officially recorded). However rare you think they may be if you're under 50 the risks of Covid-19 are completely negligible - in fact, you're more likely to die from accidental drowning if you're under 18, and from slipping in the shower if you're under 25 and not overweight or immunocompromised.

The risk you take by injecting yourself is insane, especially if you do so in the belief that things will return to 'normal'. 2019 isn't coming back, and no government will surrender the new immediate executive legislating powers they've given themselves. How anyone can believe we live in a liberal democracy when decisions that compromise international law are made by one unelected man with no parliamentary oversight and enforced the same day with police thugs is crazy.

An aside: you can never be unvaccinated. Pfizer's vaccine contains mRNA genetic code that essentially turns your cells into spike protein factories that in theory train your antibodies to kill Covid-19 - the catch is that the spike protein itself has since been admitted to be directly toxic to the heart and lungs and responsible for much of the neurological damage from Covid-19. The majority of people currently hospitalised with Covid-19 have had two shots, between 50-80% depending on where you are in the country.

T. NHS connects and my own research, can't stop you from shooting up as long as you accept that you are taking on a massive risk for very little upside. Don't let anyone bend you with guilt, fear, or any other emotion, and above all remember that you are not alone in finding the world an insane place.
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Pink Unicorn
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Just to point out, the OP themselves have posed at least 3 questions to readers in the opening post. Are you asking us not to respond to those questions and ignore them?
Hiya.

Of course, please do respond to the questions mention by the OP.

Just remember to stay on topic
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Lord_Pharoah
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(Original post by PilgrimOfTruth)
Another question for OP

Do you think that people administering the jabs should be using the technique known as "Aspiration"?

For readers, aspiration is the method used whereby the injection needle is inserted into your arm and then the syringe is
pulled back to see if any blood is drawn into the syringe (which would indicate that a vein had been hit). If so the needle is removed and the whole process is begun again.

I ask the question because I am extremely concerned about the mRNA vaccine contents ending up in the bloodstream instead of staying at the injection site in the arm muscle. The whole idea and theory of these vaccines is that they stay at the injection site just long enough for the body to recognise the pathogen and respond to it and then the mRNA dissipates. I can't imagine what would happen if the injection hit a vein and the vaccine contents got into the bloodstream and then started instructing the body to create that spike protein.

Should it not be compulsory to use the technique of Aspiration to mitigate this risk?
Right on the money, Japanese study proved the lipid nanoparticle enters circulation and distributes the spike protein throughout the body -they found spike proteins in nearly all the internal organs in quantities far higher than regular covid infection would produce. Spike protein was also found in brain tissue - Covid-19 was already know to travel to the brain because of the taste and smell symptoms which are neurological but it is highly possible this travel is responsible for very common vaccine fatigue and headache side effects.Image
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PilgrimOfTruth
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(Original post by Pink Unicorn)
Hiya.

Of course, please do respond to the questions mention by the OP.

Just remember to stay on topic
I did just that PU.

I responded to the question "Is this an act against civil liberty, or is this a valid incentive to get the remaining population fully vaccinated? " regarding vaccine passporting providing my views on it and my basis for those views and your volunteer has simply removed that post, as well as my response to the question:

"Does society have a good enough understanding of the process? How can we increase the understanding?"
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