Was this rape?

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Anonymous #1
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OK, so this situation has nothing to do with me but I was dating the guy who told me about it.

My opinion is that it is not rape and it wasnt a fault of his. But let me know what you think.

He told me he was seeing a girl and they were dating for a while.

One night she was staying the night at his place. He gave her options and suggested she could sleep on the sofa. He carried on doing the dishes and told her to make herself comfortable.

When he he went to bed he sees her laying in his bed with all her clothes on the floor, even underwear. So he gets into bed and cuddles with her and things moved along and they end up having sex.

Later he finds out she never wanted to have sex, but she never told him this. Apparently she just likes to sleep naked and he got the wrong idea.

I know a lot of people would call this rape. He told me this in confidence and I'll never tell anyone.
I would say it wasnt smart to jump in someone else's bed naked when they said she could always sleep on the sofa... she didnt even bother to speak up and say she didnt want to have sex. That being said, I dont want to victim blame either.
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ashtolga23
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Well there's a massive gap here. I don't know why you think a lot of people would call it rape if she never said anything. I think what happened in between him getting into bed and the sex would matter a lot here.

Also, just because you want to be naked in front of someone it doesn't mean you're ready for PiV sex.
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anni003
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That's really tough, technically it could be considered rape because she didn't ever explicitly consent, but then again who goes into someone else's bed completely naked?
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anosmianAcrimony
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Rape is defined as sex without consent, where the (supposed) rapist did not reasonably believe the victim had consented. In my opinion, if this girl took all her clothes off and got into the guy's bed, and they were dating, it was reasonable for him to believe that she had consented non-verbally. So personally I wouldn't consider this rape, and I doubt any court would ever convict him even if there was somehow perfect proof of everything that had happened.

That said, it's a great example of why extensive communication about sex is really important, to ensure that everyone's on the same page and nothing happens that anyone's uncomfortable with.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by ashtolga23)
Well there's a massive gap here. I don't know why you think a lot of people would call it rape if she never said anything. I think what happened in between him getting into bed and the sex would matter a lot here.

Also, just because you want to be naked in front of someone it doesn't mean you're ready for PiV sex.
I just think its common sense that you don't get naked and get into someone else's bed when you're dating and its going to look like you want to have sex. I'm talking about the context of the situation.

Tbh that was his words, and I agreed that some people might call it rape, based on the fact that she never wanted it but did it anyway. He is under the impression that men get the blame for these things regardless.

He didnt get into details, he said things carried on from hugging and they ended up having sex. I guess that means they started kissing and he must have moved on top and she never stopped him.
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Son of the Sea
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It was rape if she didn't want it but he cannot have known that if she made no indication at all that she didn't want to engage in it, so from the guy's perspective it wouldn't have been rape. It's very bizarre behaviour that she would go to his bed and lie naked on it if she didn't want any kind of physical interaction with him...
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
Rape is defined as sex without consent, where the (supposed) rapist did not reasonably believe the victim had consented. In my opinion, if this girl took all her clothes off and got into the guy's bed, and they were dating, it was reasonable for him to believe that she had consented non-verbally. So personally I wouldn't consider this rape, and I doubt any court would ever convict him even if there was somehow perfect proof of everything that had happened.

That said, it's a great example of why extensive communication about sex is really important, to ensure that everyone's on the same page and nothing happens that anyone's uncomfortable with.
I agree with everything you've said here.

Communication is very important
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ROTL94
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I mean the difficulty is that as set out in the SOA 2003 a person is guilty of an offence if he doesn't reasonably believe the other person consented, and he could argue a reasonable belief here because A) she was naked in his bed, how's a person supposed to interpret that? B) if she didn't try to stop him and didn't say no then he could assume consent, you can't just decide a rape was committed after the act based on a feeling. The contemporary evidence and conditions need to be there.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Son of the Sea)
It was rape if she didn't want it but he cannot have known that if she made no indication at all that she didn't want to engage in it, so from the guy's perspective it wouldn't have been rape. It's very bizarre behaviour that she would go to his bed and lie naked on it if she didn't want any kind of physical interaction with him...
I guess theoretically she might have just wanted naked cuddling and/or sexual stuff but not actual sex.
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Final Fantasy
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You need to provide more details - did she ever say no or resist or give any indication she didn't wanna have sex?

Given that she took all her clothes off, went into his bed and then proceeded to have sex with the guy - that does not sound like rape at all. You can't just say after you've had sex "Oh btw I changed my mind"... guys aren't psychic nor mind readers.
Last edited by Final Fantasy; 1 month ago
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shooonthebeat
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if she didn't consent then yes it's rape.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Son of the Sea)
It was rape if she didn't want it but he cannot have known that if she made no indication at all that she didn't want to engage in it, so from the guy's perspective it wouldn't have been rape. It's very bizarre behaviour that she would go to his bed and lie naked on it if she didn't want any kind of physical interaction with him...
Yeah when I first heard this I was almost angry at her for being irresponsible like that and putting both of them in that situation. I mean he did say she could sleep on the sofa, she didn't want to, she took everything off and went straight to his bed.
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Son of the Sea
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(Original post by anosmianAcrimony)
I guess theoretically she might have just wanted naked cuddling and/or sexual stuff but not actual sex.
But if she didn't give any indication she didn't want sex then she cannot argue it was nor would the CPS prosecute on such flimsy claims.
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anosmianAcrimony
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(Original post by Son of the Sea)
But if she didn't give any indication she didn't want sex then she cannot argue it was nor would the CPS prosecute on such flimsy claims.
Wellll she can certainly argue. But like I said above - IMO it was very reasonable of him to believe she had implicitly consented. And I agree nobody would ever prosecute a case like this.
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Son of the Sea
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(Original post by Anonymous)
Yeah when I first heard this I was almost angry at her for being irresponsible like that and putting both of them in that situation. I mean he did say she could sleep on the sofa, she didn't want to, she took everything off and went straight to his bed.
Without knowing her better that sounds quite manipulative tbh, practically every girl would know how someone is going to interpret her lying on his bed naked, especially as he's given her the option to sleep elsewhere.
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by shooonthebeat)
if she didn't consent then yes it's rape.
I respect your opinion, and thats exactly what I've asked for under this thread. But its not that black and white, honestly, since your basing it on the fact that she didn't consent when she still had sex with him without alerting him to the fact that she didn't want to do it. We're all adults, we have a responsibility to communicate how we feel. Its not all jts fault.

I'm not saying you're wrong im just saying you can't shrug it off and say irs rape based on the fact that she didnt consent when she was still going along with it and it did look like she initiated it from his view point. Its complicated
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Anonymous #1
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(Original post by Son of the Sea)
Without knowing her better that sounds quite manipulative tbh, practically every girl would know how someone is going to interpret her lying on his bed naked, especially as he's given her the option to sleep elsewhere.
This is my point. How was he supposed to know? Its also not like they were just friends, they were dating. I feel anyone would have thought the same.
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Anonymous #2
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but he asked her if she wanted to sleep on the sofa and she still went to the bed?
i feel like that this description is to vague to make a judgement
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shooonthebeat
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(Original post by Anonymous)
I respect your opinion, and thats exactly what I've asked for under this thread. But its not that black and white, honestly, since your basing it on the fact that she didn't consent when she still had sex with him without alerting him to the fact that she didn't want to do it. We're all adults, we have a responsibility to communicate how we feel. Its not all jts fault.

I'm not saying you're wrong im just saying you can't shrug it off and say irs rape based on the fact that she didnt consent when she was still going along with it and it did look like she initiated it from his view point. Its complicated
not complicated. if you say no then it's a no and people have to respect your boundaries.
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CoochieMan
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Was she unconscious? Did she say no during or before this happened?
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