anon1155
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I didnt do a level maths and i also have no experience in computer science but i want to do computer science degree at uni, is it better for me to do a foundation year first?
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heccyeah
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no you can go straight into year 1 of a CS degree without any experience of the subject, providing you meet the requirements
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(Original post by heccyeah)
no you can go straight into year 1 of a CS degree without any experience of the subject, providing you meet the requirements
so would a foundation year pretty much be a waste of time then?
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(Original post by anon1155)
so would a foundation year pretty much be a waste of time then?
yep
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(Original post by heccyeah)
yep
ok thanks for your reply, before my degree starts is there anything i should try learning my self before hand to get me ready ?
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Baleroc
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(Original post by anon1155)
I didnt do a level maths and i also have no experience in computer science but i want to do computer science degree at uni, is it better for me to do a foundation year first?
Depends entirely on your university's computer science course. Computer science at a good university is massively math based. You cover a lot of A-level math in the first year, then cover calculus, optimisation, algebra, automata theory, algorithms, graph and social networking theory, graphics and imaging, computer game design and many other forms of math.

You need to look at your modules and ask yourself: are any math modules mandatory? Are any optional? If any are optional, would I be interested in them? Otherwise, you would be severely restricting yourself from 30-40% of modules (in most cases) and could be up to 60-70% of modules involving math, depending on the university, which will be a severe disadvantage.

Presumably, if you are on a course with no math requirements, it's likely to not include a lot of mathematics. But in that case, computer science without math is like Physics without gravity. You will be studying the extreme basics, and nothing more.
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anon1155
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https://digital.ucas.com/coursedispl...micYearId=2021

This is the computer science course I'm going to be doing, i don't know anything about the modules, do these modules have alot of maths involved? and do you think i should take the foundation year?
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Baleroc
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(Original post by anon1155)
https://digital.ucas.com/coursedispl...micYearId=2021

This is the computer science course I'm going to be doing, i don't know anything about the modules, do these modules have alot of maths involved? and do you think i should take the foundation year?
The computer science course seems basic, so a foundation year isn't necessary. Though, I wouldn't recommend a Foundation Year anyway, because it is also covering Chemistry, Psychology, Literature, and Sports Science (according to https://www.mdx.ac.uk/__data/assets/...fy-science.pdf)

None of the core computer science modules seem to cover much of the mathematical side, and more of the practical dev skills.

To summarise what you're essentially picking:

1. If you are someone who wants to be a programmer / developer / web developer / mobile developer, etc, this degree is fine.

2. If you are someone who wants to get into Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Data Science, Big Data, Network Theory, statistics, or any related career, I wouldn't recommend it.

Overall, it has little mathematics involved, so it's fine for you to take without a foundation year.

However, if it was me in your situation, I would do something different: rather than looking for a lower league university, you can instead try a much better rated university. You see, if you have a foundation year at almost any top university (Imperial, Durham, Warwick, Bath, Lancaster, Manchester, Liverpool, etc), they always have a significantly reduced entry requirement, and it's very easy for most students to gain access to a course they wouldn't normally be able to.

So, if I was you: I would still go for the non-foundation course for Middlesex University London, but, I would also look at getting into a foundation year for a much higher ranked university and look into seeing if that's something for you, as a higher ranked university has significantly reduced entry requirements if you take the course as a foundation year, and it might be better suited for you, as it will lead to higher career choices in the future. However, it is your choice, so it's up to you.

Either: take a non-foundation year in the course you want to do, or look for a foundation year in a much higher ranked university, with significantly reduced entry requirements.
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anon1155
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(Original post by Baleroc)
The computer science course seems basic, so a foundation year isn't necessary. Though, I wouldn't recommend a Foundation Year anyway, because it is also covering Chemistry, Psychology, Literature, and Sports Science (according to https://www.mdx.ac.uk/__data/assets/...fy-science.pdf)

None of the core computer science modules seem to cover much of the mathematical side, and more of the practical dev skills.

To summarise what you're essentially picking:

1. If you are someone who wants to be a programmer / developer / web developer / mobile developer, etc, this degree is fine.

2. If you are someone who wants to get into Machine Learning, Deep Learning, Data Science, Big Data, Network Theory, statistics, or any related career, I wouldn't recommend it.

Overall, it has little mathematics involved, so it's fine for you to take without a foundation year.

However, if it was me in your situation, I would do something different: rather than looking for a lower league university, you can instead try a much better rated university. You see, if you have a foundation year at almost any top university (Imperial, Durham, Warwick, Bath, Lancaster, Manchester, Liverpool, etc), they always have a significantly reduced entry requirement, and it's very easy for most students to gain access to a course they wouldn't normally be able to.

So, if I was you: I would still go for the non-foundation course for Middlesex University London, but, I would also look at getting into a foundation year for a much higher ranked university and look into seeing if that's something for you, as a higher ranked university has significantly reduced entry requirements if you take the course as a foundation year, and it might be better suited for you, as it will lead to higher career choices in the future. However, it is your choice, so it's up to you.

Either: take a non-foundation year in the course you want to do, or look for a foundation year in a much higher ranked university, with significantly reduced entry requirements.
Thank you so much for this reply, it was really helpful. If i have any questions can i private message you?
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Baleroc
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(Original post by anon1155)

Thank you so much for this reply, it was really helpful. If i have any questions can i private message you?
You can do, but I rarely check my private messages.

If you have a question, you can quote me in this thread and I should get a notification at the top.
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(Original post by Baleroc)
You can do, but I rarely check my private messages.

If you have a question, you can quote me in this thread and I should get a notification at the top.
oh ok, unfortunately all the higher ranked unis in london arent doing clearing so im going to have to just do the non-foundation degree at middlesex. Do you think ill be able to transfer to a better uni for my second year ?
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(Original post by anon1155)
oh ok, unfortunately all the higher ranked unis in london arent doing clearing so im going to have to just do the non-foundation degree at middlesex. Do you think ill be able to transfer to a better uni for my second year ?
No.

Two problems with this:
1) If you transferred to a higher ranked university in your second year, they would probably make you do the degree from the beginning with a foundation year. Why is that a problem? Student finance only fund for 4 years, I believe. So, if your foundation year is 4 years + 1 year at middlesex = 5 years. I don't think you'd get the funding for it.
2) Even if you were allowed straight into the first year at a better university (by skipping foundation year), chances are: it will be very hard for you in year 2 and 3, as you wouldn't have the pre-requisite knowledge of A-level math.

Given the fact you can't find any better courses with a foundation year at your location, I would recommend you to stay with Middlesex uni. Having a degree you know is at your level, pace, and something that you can complete, is far better than going to a university you will struggle in beyond your level, and may not complete.

It's best to have a degree you know you will complete, than not have one at all.
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(Original post by Baleroc)
You can do, but I rarely check my private messages.

If you have a question, you can quote me in this thread and I should get a notification at the top.
Also can this degree at middlesex possibly lead to a career in game development or software engineering ?
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(Original post by anon1155)
Also can this degree at middlesex possibly lead to a career in game development or software engineering ?
Software engineering you can absolutely have a career in, no problem.

Game development, possible, but harder. It's a massive field, including programming, physics-programming, level design, special effects, sound effects, animators, etc.
You would need to choose one of the jobs. If you want to specifically be a programmer, it is possible, but game programming is much harder than normal programming (database developer/web dev/mobile dev), because you also have vectors, time and physics involved with every frame, and you have bits of algebra and physics potentially involved. 3D imaging and graphics could also be a factor. However, if you did want to be a game programmer, you would have to do extra work beyond this degree to get into the industry. You couldn't immediately get a job after your degree in the game industry, purely from the degree alone, unless you applied as a trainee.

Summary:
- Software engineering is significantly easier than being a game dev
- If you wanted to be a game dev, you would need to do more than just get a degree.
- You would need to work on game programming in your spare time, while you are studying for a degree. If you build a portfolio of games while you are at university, then you will almost certainly get a job as a game developer.

- In your case, because your degree is easier than others, you will have a lot more time to do what you want. During your spare time, you would need to work on creating your own portfolio, create games, and show that you know how to do it. Then, when you leave university, show your employer all the games you've made over 3 years, and you will get a job as a game developer.

- If you are someone who expects a game developer job at the end of your degree without putting in any work, or creating a portfolio, I can tell you won't get one, unless you put in the work over the spare time you have during your degree.

In other words: Portfolio + Degree = most likely Job in game industry. Degree + no portfolio = most likely job in software engineering / development.

Though, having a degree doesn't give you a job in software development either. You would have to create a portfolio of software you've made, but you'd have a much higher chance of getting into software engineering jobs than game development jobs with no portfolio, at least in my view.

Addendum:
The reason I think software engineering is much more likely without a portfolio is because 90% of your degree is focused around software engineering and development, so your degree is training to you be a software developer. That's why that type of job would be much easier than a game developer job, because your degree trains you more towards the software engineer side, rather than the game developer side. So that's why your best chance at getting a game developer job, would be to work on a portfolio/games during your degree, so you build up those skills as well.
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(Original post by Baleroc)
Software engineering you can absolutely have a career in, no problem.

Game development, possible, but harder. It's a massive field, including programming, physics-programming, level design, special effects, sound effects, animators, etc.
You would need to choose one of the jobs. If you want to specifically be a programmer, it is possible, but game programming is much harder than normal programming (database developer/web dev/mobile dev), because you also have vectors, time and physics involved with every frame, and you have bits of algebra and physics potentially involved. 3D imaging and graphics could also be a factor. However, if you did want to be a game programmer, you would have to do extra work beyond this degree to get into the industry. You couldn't immediately get a job after your degree in the game industry, purely from the degree alone, unless you applied as a trainee.

Summary:
- Software engineering is significantly easier than being a game dev
- If you wanted to be a game dev, you would need to do more than just get a degree.
- You would need to work on game programming in your spare time, while you are studying for a degree. If you build a portfolio of games while you are at university, then you will almost certainly get a job as a game developer.

- In your case, because your degree is easier than others, you will have a lot more time to do what you want. During your spare time, you would need to work on creating your own portfolio, create games, and show that you know how to do it. Then, when you leave university, show your employer all the games you've made over 3 years, and you will get a job as a game developer.

- If you are someone who expects a game developer job at the end of your degree without putting in any work, or creating a portfolio, I can tell you won't get one, unless you put in the work over the spare time you have during your degree.

In other words: Portfolio + Degree = most likely Job in game industry. Degree + no portfolio = most likely job in software engineering / development.

Though, having a degree doesn't give you a job in software development either. You would have to create a portfolio of software you've made, but you'd have a much higher chance of getting into software engineering jobs than game development jobs with no portfolio, at least in my view.

Addendum:
The reason I think software engineering is much more likely without a portfolio is because 90% of your degree is focused around software engineering and development, so your degree is training to you be a software developer. That's why that type of job would be much easier than a game developer job, because your degree trains you more towards the software engineer side, rather than the game developer side. So that's why your best chance at getting a game developer job, would be to work on a portfolio/games during your degree, so you build up those skills as well.
Thanks again for giving such a detailed reply i really appreciate it. Just one last question and ill stop bothering you lol, how can i start learning about game developing/programming in my free time ? what would you recommend a beginner to start with is what im trying to say.
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(Original post by anon1155)
Thanks again for giving such a detailed reply i really appreciate it. Just one last question and ill stop bothering you lol, how can i start learning about game developing/programming in my free time ? what would you recommend a beginner to start with is what im trying to say.
Unfortunately, I'm not a game developer, so I am restricted in that area, but I do know some resources:

Some great resources I've found was the ones on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/courses/develo...e-development/

In particular, I would suggest the Ben Tristem courses (e.g a 3D game dev course he has is here: https://www.udemy.com/course/unitycourse2/).

Ben Tristem also has a math course: https://www.udemy.com/course/math-for-games/

He also has his own website: https://www.gamedev.tv/

The only issue is those courses tend to cost around £11 each, but they are good tutorials. Note: Udemy sometimes offers courses between £11-£15. Never, ever buy a course above £15. They offer discounts every few weeks, so keep checking back for the price of courses

Other recommended game dev resources:
- Unity Learn (https://learn.unity.com/)
They have over 750 hours of different game development courses. All you need to do is to create an account. I think most of them are free, though I haven't checked them out.
Unity are the creators of a very popular game engine. The two most popular and used are Unity and Unreal Engine. So, having tutorials from the creators of a game engine, is a good place to start.
- Brackeys (https://www.youtube.com/user/Brackeys) provides free youtube videos
- tutsplus (https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/) I've never tried those ones.
- Computer Science for Game Development (by Harvard University) - https://www.edx.org/professional-cer...siness+Insider
- Game Resources from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/wiki/resources
This is a large compilation of resources to help you be a better dev.
- Game Resources from a stanford developer http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/.../gameprog.html

The harvard course offers a professional certification for £200, but if you click on the individual courses in the program, they are offered for free. You only pay for the certificate, not the courses. So, clicking on the individual course, there should be a link where it will allow you to access them for free.

Programming Resources:
- I recommend a website https://www.monster.com/career-advic...to-code-online
It recommends you a few websites to learn how to code, such as Khan Academy, Code Academy, etc.
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anon1155
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(Original post by Baleroc)
Unfortunately, I'm not a game developer, so I am restricted in that area, but I do know some resources:

Some great resources I've found was the ones on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/courses/develo...e-development/

In particular, I would suggest the Ben Tristem courses (e.g a 3D game dev course he has is here: https://www.udemy.com/course/unitycourse2/).

Ben Tristem also has a math course: https://www.udemy.com/course/math-for-games/

He also has his own website: https://www.gamedev.tv/

The only issue is those courses tend to cost around £11 each, but they are good tutorials. Note: Udemy sometimes offers courses between £11-£15. Never, ever buy a course above £15. They offer discounts every few weeks, so keep checking back for the price of courses

Other recommended game dev resources:
- Unity Learn (https://learn.unity.com/)
They have over 750 hours of different game development courses. All you need to do is to create an account. I think most of them are free, though I haven't checked them out.
Unity are the creators of a very popular game engine. The two most popular and used are Unity and Unreal Engine. So, having tutorials from the creators of a game engine, is a good place to start.
- Brackeys (https://www.youtube.com/user/Brackeys) provides free youtube videos
- tutsplus (https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/) I've never tried those ones.
- Computer Science for Game Development (by Harvard University) - https://www.edx.org/professional-cer...siness+Insider
- Game Resources from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/wiki/resources
This is a large compilation of resources to help you be a better dev.
- Game Resources from a stanford developer http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/.../gameprog.html

The harvard course offers a professional certification for £200, but if you click on the individual courses in the program, they are offered for free. You only pay for the certificate, not the courses. So, clicking on the individual course, there should be a link where it will allow you to access them for free.

Programming Resources:
- I recommend a website https://www.monster.com/career-advic...to-code-online
It recommends you a few websites to learn how to code, such as Khan Academy, Code Academy, etc.
This is exactly what i needed, ill definitely check out some of these sites so thanks alot!
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(Original post by anon1155)
Thank you so much for this reply, it was really helpful. If i have any questions can i private message you?
Hello anon1155
My name is Rebecca and I am a student ambassador at Middlesex University.
I have seen that you might be interested in studying Computer Science with us. Thank you for registering your interest. If you would like to apply for this course through clearing you can apply through our clearing hotline by calling this number 0208411 6565.
Apply asap for this year's clearing courses as places will fill up quickly.
You can also find more information about our clearing process here https://www.mdx.ac.uk/campaigns/clearing
If you have any questions feel free to message me.

Good luck with your applications
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Just here to add a recommendation for the Tristem/GameDevTV courses. The Unity course was my first proper dive into programming and it got me hooked. The maths course is also very good.

Having evidence of your knowledge and interest in game development will be essential to finding work, no matter what degree you end up taking. So start working on that asap.
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(Original post by Baleroc)
Unfortunately, I'm not a game developer, so I am restricted in that area, but I do know some resources:

Some great resources I've found was the ones on Udemy: https://www.udemy.com/courses/develo...e-development/

In particular, I would suggest the Ben Tristem courses (e.g a 3D game dev course he has is here: https://www.udemy.com/course/unitycourse2/).

Ben Tristem also has a math course: https://www.udemy.com/course/math-for-games/

He also has his own website: https://www.gamedev.tv/

The only issue is those courses tend to cost around £11 each, but they are good tutorials. Note: Udemy sometimes offers courses between £11-£15. Never, ever buy a course above £15. They offer discounts every few weeks, so keep checking back for the price of courses

Other recommended game dev resources:
- Unity Learn (https://learn.unity.com/)
They have over 750 hours of different game development courses. All you need to do is to create an account. I think most of them are free, though I haven't checked them out.
Unity are the creators of a very popular game engine. The two most popular and used are Unity and Unreal Engine. So, having tutorials from the creators of a game engine, is a good place to start.
- Brackeys (https://www.youtube.com/user/Brackeys) provides free youtube videos
- tutsplus (https://gamedevelopment.tutsplus.com/) I've never tried those ones.
- Computer Science for Game Development (by Harvard University) - https://www.edx.org/professional-cer...siness+Insider
- Game Resources from Reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/wiki/resources
This is a large compilation of resources to help you be a better dev.
- Game Resources from a stanford developer http://www-cs-students.stanford.edu/.../gameprog.html

The harvard course offers a professional certification for £200, but if you click on the individual courses in the program, they are offered for free. You only pay for the certificate, not the courses. So, clicking on the individual course, there should be a link where it will allow you to access them for free.

Programming Resources:
- I recommend a website https://www.monster.com/career-advic...to-code-online
It recommends you a few websites to learn how to code, such as Khan Academy, Code Academy, etc.
Hey i found a computer science with foundation year course at royal holloway, its a much higher ranked uni and i think i can get in. Do you think its worth doing or should i just stick to middlesex computer science without foundation year? https://www.royalholloway.ac.uk/stud...undation-year/
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