Switching from the Community to GP Pharmacist?

They can definitely pay more. I just had my review and negotiated £30/hr. It was literally a five minute meeting and they were so happy to do so. Lots of praise from the staff how I'm always willing to help them and haven't received a single complaint from a patient over the year. That brings my pay up to £58,500 on a 37.5 hr week. Really happy with the room for progression my practice has offered me. Next steps is to complete my CPPE pathway then possibly back to uni to start an MSc in advanced clinical practice.

Thats sounds really good, and that you enjoy what your doing that you plan to study a masters after
We've spoken before here on TSR about how I also want to become a GP pharmacist and you kindly explained the sort of things you do as a GP pharmacist.
I was just wondering how long you were working at your GP surgery to negotiate a rise and also, do you think it would be possible to work as a part time GP Pharmacist who doesnt work the traditional 37.5hr week but has the flexibility to chose what days they'd like to work?

Glad to see you're aiming for GP pharmacy!

I've been in GP for exactly 1 year so I thought it was an appropriate time to negotiate a pay rise. In my entry interview I laid out my starting salary and what I'd like it to progress to in the coming year based on my performance and qualifications I earn. Over the year market forces have pushed up community locum wages astronomically, so I used that as leverage to push my salary higher.

You can absolutely work part time in GP. A lot of positions that are advertised are for part time/full time opportunities and are flexible. You can negotiate what days you'd like to work Monday - Friday and if morning/afternoon sessions. I do 10.5 hour days 3 times a week, and then some remote work over the weekend to make up to 37.5 hours.

Oh that's brilliant!
And yes I am currently pursing GP Pharmacy. I have applied to attend an MPharm Course next year and hopefully they will integrate the prescribing course during my studies
Have you completed the IP course yet or is not necessary for your role?
And Would you say the MPharm degree is very challenging if so do you have any tips for what I can do now to prepare?
Thanks

Glad to see you're aiming for GP pharmacy!

I've been in GP for exactly 1 year so I thought it was an appropriate time to negotiate a pay rise. In my entry interview I laid out my starting salary and what I'd like it to progress to in the coming year based on my performance and qualifications I earn. Over the year market forces have pushed up community locum wages astronomically, so I used that as leverage to push my salary higher.

You can absolutely work part time in GP. A lot of positions that are advertised are for part time/full time opportunities and are flexible. You can negotiate what days you'd like to work Monday - Friday and if morning/afternoon sessions. I do 10.5 hour days 3 times a week, and then some remote work over the weekend to make up to 37.5 hours.

Chilli, where have all the locums gone?

I am Midlands based and am getting emails from teamlocum, locatealocum, direct contact from small local chains, msgs from a friend at Tesco with a list of days needing cover as long as your arm!! I'm even waking up (late) on my days off to missed calls and/or msgs for cover needed that day! This seems to have started a couple of months back, but I can't see any reason why?

Nothing seems to have changed dramatically, the workload is still beyond do-able, the patients are still rude and Not patient! It just seems like there has been a mass of pharmacists who have simply stopped locuming and taken a permanent job, or have just decided to leave the profession??
I don't believe the narrative being pushed by the RPS and The Powers That Be, etc, that PCNs and GPs are gobbling up nearly every one of the 3000 pharmacists who register every year!
Any thoughts?

I know, it's madness.

I don't feel like the pharmacy landscape has changed so dramatically in the past year but rates have never been so high like this. I'm getting plenty of emails myself for shifts up to £50 an hour. I had a discussion with a patient in my hypertension clinic who happens to be a dispenser at a local large multiple pharmacy. They told me that having a pharmacist on saturdays now is a miracle. Often they go in and do what work they can but can't function like a normal pharmacy without the pharmacist. Can you believe it, pharmacies regularly without a stationed pharmacist? If you asked me a year ago we'd be coming to this I'd think you were mad!

One of my colleagues is giving up his managerial role to go back to locuming! That's the state we're in, it's more lucrative to locum than have a contracted manager position.

Something has happened in the last year that has shifted the power into the hands of employees.

There could be some credit to the idea of pharmacists moving into GP. I don't see the high demand for locums in hospital/GP like what's going on in community. It seems like the biggest flux of pharmacists into GP has been the last 1-2 years. In my city we have about 2-3 dozen pharmacists in GP now, and for a city without a pharmacy school that's likely caused a shock to the local workforce. It may take a few years for balance to be restored but I'm hoping a new standard for salaries has been set!?

I agree. Things are very strange right now.
It seems the Big Boys and some supermarkets are really struggling right now to just get a pharmacist for a shift, and not just the weekends,and late night and 7am start shifts, but some normal 9-530pm shifts too!

As for your patient and her pharmacy. surely as this is regularly happening every Saturday, the CCG and GPhC should be informed? Simply because they can't give out any meds that a pt may need that are all bagged up and ready to go, but the law forbids it?!

Under normal circumstances the law would forbid it, but the multiples have been abusing a clause amendment since the pandemic started to allow frequent temporary pharmacy closures and changing over their contract hours.

The original article: https://www.pcc-cic.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Pharmacy-opening-hours-guidance-May-2020.pdf

Where a pharmacy contractor has to temporarily suspend the provision of pharmaceutical
services for a reason beyond its control, it shall not be in breach of the terms of service
provided that it:
 notifies NHS England of that suspension as soon as practical; and
 uses all reasonable endeavours to resume provision of pharmaceutical services as
soon as is practicable. (Paragraph 23(10)).


And this was extended to January 31 2022: https://www.nhsbsa.nhs.uk/sites/default/files/2021-09/Pharm%20Serv%20%28Adv%20Enh%20Emerg%20Dec%29%20%28Further%20Amend%29%20%28Eng%29%20Directions%202021%2030092021.pdf

Amendment of the 2020 Directions
2. In direction 2 of the 2020 Directions(b) (declaration of emergency requiring the flexible
provision of pharmaceutical services), for “30th September 2021” substitute “31st January 2022”.

At some point the amendment will end and either the workforce will have stabilised by then or the multiples will be in breach of contract. Maybe even higher rates are to come if there's no extension!?

Chilli, where have all the locums gone?

I am Midlands based and am getting emails from teamlocum, locatealocum, direct contact from small local chains, msgs from a friend at Tesco with a list of days needing cover as long as your arm!! I'm even waking up (late) on my days off to missed calls and/or msgs for cover needed that day! This seems to have started a couple of months back, but I can't see any reason why?

Nothing seems to have changed dramatically, the workload is still beyond do-able, the patients are still rude and Not patient! It just seems like there has been a mass of pharmacists who have simply stopped locuming and taken a permanent job, or have just decided to leave the profession??
I don't believe the narrative being pushed by the RPS and The Powers That Be, etc, that PCNs and GPs are gobbling up nearly every one of the 3000 pharmacists who register every year!
Any thoughts?

One of my colleagues is giving up his managerial role to go back to locuming! That's the state we're in, it's more lucrative to locum than have a contracted manager position.

What inspired you to choose GP pharm?

I've already done the IP, but at the moment it's not required to join GP, just highly desirable. Everyone joining GP is expect to undertake IP though.

MPharm is a lot like school. You learn about all aspects of pharmacy from pharmacology, clinical, legality, hospital, community, industry, etc. Only some of what you learn will actually be relevant to when you start practicing. Because of that there's a lot of things you just can't prepare for. But relevant things would be to get work experience in a pharmacy. The best way to learn is to prepare like you're sitting your pre-reg exam. I got ready for the pre-reg exam by doing online bank questions in the style of the exam. Ended up doing over a thousand questions, repeating them until making no mistakes. If you're at that level you'll find a lot of the things you learn in uni relatively easy.

Thank you for the tips on the Pharmacy exam, sounds pretty intense, but really good advice, I'll give it age. Also since you were doing bank questions, would you say pharmacy is mainly difficult math calculations?

I decided GP Pharm, because I've always wanted a future career were I was able to help others with the extensive knowledge I had on health, for all conditions. I want a job where I could work a few hours a week and earn a good living to be comfortable. I want a job that was flexible, one that I am able to consult patients, to do my work at my payed times and then go home, without having to continue my work at home - say for example teachers and how they have to prep for their coming lessons. But also without having to do extensive years of study and stress like medicine. So I decided GP pharmacy because it provides with me flexibility, good pay, working in my own office helping people.

My emphasis in bold.
I'm afraid that might not be the case.
Pharmacy and Medicine are not static subjects, they are changing every day.
I'm sure ChillBear will agree that s/he does a lot of reading of journals and diploma work, in their own time. Usually, as there isn't enough time in the work day to have the luxury of study time, unless you are able to negotiate this with an employer.

Also, if you went into community pharmacy, you will still have to do all the courses in your own time, currently I can think of morning after pill, minor ailments, summary care record, sepsis, discharge medicines service, flu jab training (usually on a Sunday), Dementia friends.
If you are able to, take a look at locateAlocum, and the list of courses that someone like LloydsPharmacy want you to have done before they employ you as a locum.
Here is a general list that LAL agency recommend you have:
CV

Dementia Friends

EHC

Level 2 Safeguarding

LASA

NADEX

NESA

NMS

Repeat Dispensing

Risk Management

Sepsis

Smart Card

Smoking Cessation

Summary Care Records

Basic Life Support

Substance Use and Misuse

CPCS



I know you say you want to be a GP pharmacist, but depending where you are at now, (GCSE?A level? Under grad?) those jobs only make up about 10% of the pharmacist's job market right now. 65% of pharmacy graduates end up in retail pharmacy as a manager or locum.
I just wanted to mention this as the universities are very good at selling you a glossy future but without the stats attached as to how likely you are to get these roles. Industry being another. There are about 12 industrial pre-regs for 3000 grads! But you don't find that out until later in the course.

ive currently finished my a levels, would you say I shouldn't go ahead with pharmacy, one of the reasons being it will be difficult to become a gp pharmacist.
I would have thought by the time I graduate with uni's implementing the prescribing course it would be easier, would you not agree?

The PDA has published an interesting article about the 'pharmacist shortage'. Recommended read with some data to tout:

https://www.the-pda.org/workforce-impact-gp-pharmacist-roles/

The PDA has published an interesting article about the 'pharmacist shortage'. Recommended read with some data to tout:

https://www.the-pda.org/workforce-impact-gp-pharmacist-roles/

I laugh every time I see anything about pharmacist shortages when the figures from the PDA prove there simply is NOT a shortage, there is a concerted effort now by the under 35s, realising they are on a very tilting Titanic of a profession, jumping overboard and swimming to a lifeboat. That being a totally new job/profession/degree/career.

I know one guy, his Dad is a builder, got him on plumbing and electrics courses, bit of plastering and decorating training, and he now buys up cheap houses at auctions to do-up, or provides the other services. He has left the register at age 35. And there is a huge stampede behind him, millennials realising they were mis-sold a glossy, action packed clinical future from a university, providing 'services', etc which turned out to be churning out 400 items a day with one and a half dispensers, no counter staff, targets galore, ordering for patients, phoning surgeries for patients, delivering on their way home to patients ( with the obligatory 3 cars on the drive, but absolutely no-one was free to pop in before 630pm! ). etc, etc, etc. Those qualified, or even pre-reg will know the song now, same old, same old for the last decade or so, at least. Gordon Brown wasn't interested in pharmacists.....he brought in Category M to ruin our generic drug buying profits, Cameron/May brought in a funding cut, and a fixed 5 year funding deal hoping the weak would die off.....and they are. you know it's bad when Lloyds sells or closes TEN per cent of its portfolio of stores! (But there are too many pharmacies, does one little High street need 2 Boots, a Lloyds, an independent, and 2 one-hundred hour pharmacies? No!)

I dread to think, with the demise of the High street, and the big switch to on-line and digital everything since the 'Rona' what the state of community pharmacy will look like in ten years' time?
Thankfully, (for me) I will retire that year.




Don't forget this article from the summer:

"If you’ve been following pharmacy social media, it will have you believing in the idea that there’s a massive shortage of pharmacists so we need to import, we need remote supervision and we must have apprentices otherwise the industry will fall apart! So, let’s take a deeper look and by that I mean let’s just scratch the surface because it’s not really that deep and the numbers and overwhelming evidence is clear – it’s nothing but a myth.

Imagine how bad you have to be as an employer when you offer double if not triple the normal hourly rate and still no one wants to work for you. Does that mean there is a pharmacist shortage? If you have spent over a decade stripping your branches to bare bone staff, pay freeze, incessant demands to hit commercial targets and have been overworking your staff to the ground then is it possible that this is the reason why no pharmacist is willing to work for you? Is it really a surprise when pharmacists leave in their droves after years of being downtrodden and then the company gets a bad reputation? This now means that no one wants to come and work for you. Should you jump to the wrong conclusion and automatically think “hmm there must be a shortage otherwise why can’t I find a locum?” Should we just import more pharmacists? If you insist that locums should work for you for an hourly rate that is just a few pennies more than the hourly rate from twenty years ago, is it any wonder why nobody considers working for that? Further, if you insist on and instill a culture that anyone who demands a fairer hourly rate is simply profiteering and should be reported to the GPhC do you not think that locum pharmacists will avoid you like the plague?

Due to this behaviour, locums no longer want to work for you and you then think it’s because there’s a shortage so the solution is to pursue an apprenticeship route into the profession, with apprenticeship salaries and an almost Victorian workhouse ethic. If you seriously believe any of those reasons above is a valid reason to bring in remote supervision, apprentices, or to put pharmacists on the shortage list then I have this amazing bridge in London I’m looking to sell. Just send me your card details first!

There are around sixty thousand pharmacists currently on the register, give or take a few thousand. Of those around seventy percent work in community. There are around 11,826 (2020 figures) pharmacies in the UK. So a quick calculation should tell you there are around 42,000 pharmacists working in community which is almost 4 pharmacists per pharmacy. Ahhhh, I hear the cynics cry, what about all those pharmacists working in PCNs? Well, what about them? The uptake into PCNs has not been that great and GP practice pharmacists’ numbers aren’t as high as you’d expect either.

So where have all the pharmacists gone you ask? Why are so many pharmacies closing you ask? I bet they’re all working in vaccination centres for hundreds of pounds an hour! Well, that would be a no. You see the PCNs haven’t taken on as many pharmacists because it takes time to train up a pharmacist to do everything they would want a pharmacist to do (another discussion for another day). Same story with the GP surgeries. It takes time to train up a pharmacist to do a lot of the work a GP does. As for the vaccination centre jobs, it still doesn’t add up to explain the alleged shortage of pharmacists stories we hear from all corners of the sector (by that I mean mainly the big boys with deep pockets and an interest in keeping salaries low).

The real issue here, and it has been for a long time, is the poor treatment of pharmacists. This didn’t start yesterday, last month or last year. It started decades ago when the large multiples decided the best way to deal with an upcoming funding cut would be to use a sledgehammer to crack a nut and cut staff wages and numbers. Rather than innovation, we took the lazy approach. Had we chosen to innovate, invest in our staff and develop new services today we would have been in a much better situation professionally and financially. Our profession doesn’t need an apprenticeship route. What we need are independent thinkers not people who will be brainwashed for years on minimum salary and overworked so they can bleed blue, green or whatever colour they’re told to bleed. We don’t need to import pharmacists so they can work here on practically minimum wage and burn out.

I’ve spoken to hundreds of pharmacists over the last few years who have come to UK and were promised the dream of amazing things by these companies who sold them that dream. When our colleagues took up the offer of the dream the reality was a dream turned into a nightmare. They were faced with extremely busy pharmacies, understaffing, faced racism and lack of support. They don’t complain because they’re here on a T2 visa so most will just remain silent until they burn out or get the chance to escape.

What we lack is real leadership. We have a professional body that most pharmacists don’t even take seriously. If you ask most pharmacists about what the RPS does, their answer is usually “what do they do?”. We have too many organisations claiming to speak for their own small sub-section of the sector. What we need is a unifying organisation. Leadership that everyone can look up to. One that is willing to speak up even to the most deep-pocketed companies without flinching. One that focuses on the real issues instead of denying they even exist.

So, about that shortage of pharmacists. What shortage? "





By Tohidul Islam, Chief Exec of the Pharmacist Cooperative and Locum

This article first appeared on the Pharmacist Cooperative website



There is NO shortage of community pharmacists!!!
There IS a shortage of CPs who don't want to work for 9 or 10 hours a day for £20 an hour, probably the same as they were earning a decade ago, so in effect, assuming 2.5% inflation a year, a 25% pay cut, get shouted at by the general public who are getting increasingly demanding, rude and aggressive, be given impossible 'service' targets by non-pharmacist managers who last year were managing a mobile phone shop, or suchlike and have no idea about pharmacy, stand up all day, hardly getting time to sit down for 15 mins to eat a sandwich, and go home tired, stressed, exhausted, depressed even, only to have to come back the next day to go through this pharmaceutical 'Groundhog Day' nightmare all over again. There is your shortage, @ pretty new blond ladyBoss from Lloyds! Not because those nasty GPs and PCNs have pinched 3000 pharmacists, and mostly from hospitals.

People are scrambling for the exits, and I don't even mean off to GPLand, I mean something else entirely. Leaving the profession, lock, stock and barrel! Or they become a Mom, and maybe work just one day a week as a locum.

I have NO idea how 'they' managed to convince the government there is a shortage when there are more pharmacists on the register than ever before, AND, over the next 1 to 2 years we will hit 70,000 pharmacists. So.....there you go, No shortage, certainly not of the one 'they' would have you believe.
Perhaps provide a counter staff member, and an extra fiver on the hourly rate, and you might suddenly find one of those rare, in hiding, pharmacist creatures!! @ Blond Boss Lloyds Lady!