Do you still support Brexit how’s it going?

Original post by Napp

As i said when it was first promulgated, ill say it again **** brexit. It is, was, and will be the utter height of idiocy put forward by selfish morons in parliament who couldnt give a **** for the things/people they spoke about and only went with it because they themselves could benefit - the others going along with it not because they agreed but because they are craven cowards who were scared for their seats as opposed to caring about the nation. Most of them went against their electorate in the process.

While we disagree regarding life inside EU club rules and consequences of them vs lifestyle outside of EU club rules and consequences of that! You are correct the referendum was brought about by self serving irresponsible political figures egged on by a populist who really is just a ... Well you get the picture.

When we delve further into our political and social beliefs/backgrounds its not hard to see why we have different views. However just because someone is right doesn't mean the other person is wrong, that's the problem with the polarized, tribal society that referenda creates and intelligent people need to pull us away from that path :smile:

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 22

Naveed.178

I Voted Leave on 23rd June 2016.
I preferred our politicians to have unlocked the economy financially and globally more rapidly and generously than currently being done.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 23

imlikeahermit

14

Original post by Rakas21

Is your inference here that we must simply accept the terms required of us. By extension, are you happy with our new role as a branch of the US military as seen recently.

Sovereignty means that we can persue our own interests and yes, they may sometimes conflict with the objectives of foreign states.

We are in a weaker negotiating position because we don’t have the power of the EU countries behind us. It isn’t about accepting what is given to us; it’s realising that the perfect deal which Brexiteers sold to us isn’t at all possible. There is, and was absolutely no deal that we could possibly make that would give us the same benefits of being in the EU, or in that matter, give us some sort of advantage over the EU.

What interests? This post imperialistic Britain makes me laugh. We’re a small country. We’ve been decimated over the past century, lost most of our colonies. Somehow became a financial powerhouse, but then decided to Chuck that away in the name of a buzzword. What exactly does this new found sovereignty allow us to do? Are you planning to restart the British empire? More like the Brittas empire.

Original post by Naveed-7

I Voted Leave on 23rd June 2016.
I preferred our politicians to have unlocked the economy financially and globally more rapidly and generously than currently being done.

When you say ‘unlocked the economy’ what exactly do you mean? Did you expect countries the world over to be lining up at Downing Street to make trade deals with us? Or do you want us to become a tax haven?

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 24

username5778314

12

Brexit was ultimately the consequence of a nation that hate personal responsibility.

So it's not surprise that we've seen several years of Brexit supporters blaming others because Brexit hasn't gone the way they wanted rather than taking responsibility for their own decisions.

Reply 25

Original post by Trilobite.

Brexit was ultimately the consequence of a nation that hate personal responsibility.

So it's not surprise that we've seen several years of Brexit supporters blaming others because Brexit hasn't gone the way they wanted rather than taking responsibility for their own decisions.

Brexit isn't a one off event, there is no magic wand *wave* and its done. Same with membership of the EU its a journey not a destination, there are pro's and cons to both.

Reply 26

Rakas21

21

Original post by imlikeahermit

We are in a weaker negotiating position because we don’t have the power of the EU countries behind us. It isn’t about accepting what is given to us; it’s realising that the perfect deal which Brexiteers sold to us isn’t at all possible. There is, and was absolutely no deal that we could possibly make that would give us the same benefits of being in the EU, or in that matter, give us some sort of advantage over the EU.

What interests? This post imperialistic Britain makes me laugh. We’re a small country. We’ve been decimated over the past century, lost most of our colonies. Somehow became a financial powerhouse, but then decided to Chuck that away in the name of a buzzword. What exactly does this new found sovereignty allow us to do? Are you planning to restart the British empire? More like the Brittas empire.

Of course but your forgetting that most Brexiteers don't want the same benefits as being in the EU, we were clear that sovereignty and to a lesser degree immigration was the issue. The reason for the focus on the same benefits was an establishment having to pander to those who don't wish to leave (70%+ of leavers by 2019 would have accepted No Deal). The majority of leave voters for example are likely opposed to the NI and Gibraltar protocols. It therefore becomes a false equivelence.

As much as you may look upon the UK as a child in need of dependency, I was speaking of interests in a more general sovereignty orientated sense. I for example favour policies which would have previously breached the EU level playing field rules (they still do now but to a lesser degree).

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 27

imlikeahermit

14

Original post by Rakas21

Of course but your forgetting that most Brexiteers don't want the same benefits as being in the EU, we were clear that sovereignty and to a lesser degree immigration was the issue. The reason for the focus on the same benefits was an establishment having to pander to those who don't wish to leave (70%+ of leavers by 2019 would have accepted No Deal). The majority of leave voters for example are likely opposed to the NI and Gibraltar protocols. It therefore becomes a false equivelence.

As much as you may look upon the UK as a child in need of dependency, I was speaking of interests in a more general sovereignty orientated sense. I for example favour policies which would have previously breached the EU level playing field rules (they still do now but to a lesser degree).

Most people voted to leave over immigration because the working class felt that those pesky immigrants were coming in and taking their jobs, ironically jobs they won’t do, and even more ironically we’re seeing the fruits of that now.

Unless we have a massive change in the kind of country we are, i.e we become a tax haven, then this new found sovereignty means absolutely diddly squat. Sorry, but it does. Means absolutely nothing. Just like we have gained absolutely nothing economically from leaving the EU, and I suspect we never will. Trade deals with Lichtenstein aren’t going to change that.

Reply 28

Original post by imlikeahermit

Most people voted to leave over immigration because the working class felt that those pesky immigrants were coming in and taking their jobs, ironically jobs they won’t do, and even more ironically we’re seeing the fruits of that now.

Unless we have a massive change in the kind of country we are, i.e we become a tax haven, then this new found sovereignty means absolutely diddly squat. Sorry, but it does. Means absolutely nothing. Just like we have gained absolutely nothing economically from leaving the EU, and I suspect we never will. Trade deals with Lichtenstein aren’t going to change that.

Your missing an important sentence there, IN MY OPINION.

Your opinion and fact isn't necessarily linked

Reply 29

Rakas21

21

Original post by imlikeahermit

Most people voted to leave over immigration because the working class felt that those pesky immigrants were coming in and taking their jobs, ironically jobs they won’t do, and even more ironically we’re seeing the fruits of that now.

Unless we have a massive change in the kind of country we are, i.e we become a tax haven, then this new found sovereignty means absolutely diddly squat. Sorry, but it does. Means absolutely nothing. Just like we have gained absolutely nothing economically from leaving the EU, and I suspect we never will. Trade deals with Lichtenstein aren’t going to change that.

Polling in the aftermath actually suggests sovereignty at 50% of leave voters was a bigger priority than immigration at 30% of leave voters. Huge numbers of middle class voters still voted Brexit remember. Personally i would agree with this, i considered the modelled economic impact to be acceptable and so sovereignty was my primary consideration on polling day. Granted i support a harder exit now than when i voted.

Reply 30

Napp

22

Original post by Rakas21

Polling in the aftermath actually suggests sovereignty at 50% of leave voters was a bigger priority than immigration at 30% of leave voters. Huge numbers of middle class voters still voted Brexit remember. Personally i would agree with this, i considered the modelled economic impact to be acceptable and so sovereignty was my primary consideration on polling day. Granted i support a harder exit now than when i voted.

Never quite got the fetishation of sovereignty given it has no impact on most people and is about as nebulous as its possible to get given most of those who barrack on about it have no idea what it is or how it effects them. Never mind the idea of giving the British government more power is appalling considering how corrupt, inept and downright criminal the current one is.

Reply 31

A Rolling Stone

Original post by Napp

Never quite got the fetishation of sovereignty given it has no impact on most people and is about as nebulous as its possible to get given most of those who barrack on about it have no idea what it is or how it effects them. Never mind the idea of giving the British government more power is appalling considering how corrupt, inept and downright criminal the current one is.

are you suggesting that we should give up being governed by elected representatives just so you can engage in your fetishisation of supranationalism?

Reply 32

Napp

22

Original post by A Rolling Stone

are you suggesting that we should give up being governed by elected representatives just so you can engage in your fetishisation of supranationalism?

What on earth are you babbling about, aside being a very weird little attempt at a dig it makes no sense?
Very droll though that you think you haver a say in whose elected though. Aside from the fact you merely vote for who has been chosen for you Britains method of voting is the antithesis of represented, as well anyone with even a hint of basic political knowledge will tell you.
The fact youre under the quaint illusion that Britain somehow loses the right to elect its own 'representatives', or that we had our own ones within the EU, merely shows you fell for some of the more insane propaganda spewed out by the tabloids. The word credulous would barely cover it.

Reply 33

Renner

19

It’s going fine. Wages are rising, it’s just as easy to go on holiday as it was before, our vaccine program smashed anything the EU could produce, investment into the U.K. remains at high levels.

It could be better, but project fear proved to be nonsense which we knew all along

Reply 34

Original post by Napp

Never quite got the fetishation of sovereignty given it has no impact on most people and is about as nebulous as its possible to get given most of those who barrack on about it have no idea what it is or how it effects them.

I'm trying to be as neutral and impartial as I can be in this explanation. To idealists Sovereignty is important because while we are members of the EU no matter what they do, or how popular their particular 'ideal' becomes a superior power the people hold almost realistic power to change outlaws their ideal.

^^ this is a reason many voted leave but when asked quoted "Sovereignty" as a their valid reason for voting leave.

Original post by Napp

Never mind the idea of giving the British government more power is appalling considering how corrupt, inept and downright criminal the current one is.

I can see why you triggered the reaction from @A Rolling Stone even though his/her being a slightly crass he has point.

The current **** shower of a government is almost irrelevant, the fact is we have given more power to the electorate, the electorate can change the government if it wishes.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 35

Original post by Renner

It’s going fine. Wages are rising, it’s just as easy to go on holiday as it was before, our vaccine program smashed anything the EU could produce, investment into the U.K. remains at high levels.

It could be better, but project fear proved to be nonsense which we knew all along

Oh I dunno, I was really looking forward to buying my next house 30% cheaper. Only I went and made 30k on my latest investment property which exchanged on feb 2020 instead :biggrin:

. I told you all on this forum that stat was BS, I put my money where my mounth was and ... I was right.

These Economic experts seem to be the only "experts" that seem to be repeatedly wrong but still maintain the luxury of calling themselves experts 🙄

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 36

Rakas21

21

Original post by Napp

Never quite got the fetishation of sovereignty given it has no impact on most people and is about as nebulous as its possible to get given most of those who barrack on about it have no idea what it is or how it effects them. Never mind the idea of giving the British government more power is appalling considering how corrupt, inept and downright criminal the current one is.

Because the practise of sovereignty defines who one is and what they are destined to become. Perhaps you have lived in New Zealand too long or perhaps you really do yearn for New Zealand to surrender sovereignty to Indonesia as a wealthier nation and in the future large market but many people including myself consider Europe to be a foreign land, we consider being subject to the rulings of a court offensive, we consider the idea that we need to subject to foreign direction like a petulant child to be ahorrant.

In short, beyond looking at our state as nothing more than a number on a piece of paper I equally don't understand the fever some people have with their love of the EU. Perhaps though I simply have too much confidence in the ability of my nation to govern itself and don't view it as a child in need of benevolent control.

Granted your not entirely wrong with some politicians.

Reply 37

A Rolling Stone

Original post by Napp

What on earth are you babbling about, aside being a very weird little attempt at a dig it makes no sense?
Very droll though that you think you haver a say in whose elected though. Aside from the fact you merely vote for who has been chosen for you Britains method of voting is the antithesis of represented, as well anyone with even a hint of basic political knowledge will tell you.
The fact youre under the quaint illusion that Britain somehow loses the right to elect its own 'representatives', or that we had our own ones within the EU, merely shows you fell for some of the more insane propaganda spewed out by the tabloids. The word credulous would barely cover it.

i think you are in denial that the New Labour, Cameron & May administrations were merely puppet governments of the EU, mostly responsible for passing EU-mandated law.

(edited 2 years ago)

Reply 38

Original post by A Rolling Stone

i think you are in denial that the New Labour, Cameron & May administrations were merely puppet governments of the EU, mostly responsible for passing EU-mandated law.

I'm pretty pro brexit but the statement caneron, may, Blair and brown was puppets to the EU is inaccurate to say the least.

Reply 39

A Rolling Stone